Another question for pretribulationist in view of 2 Thessalonians 1:7?

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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#21
First I want to thank you for all your replies. I know it's not that easy to type out all this stuff because it does take work.
I appreciate that, thank you for your kind words.

Yes, it does. = )

Secondly, I remember years ago that the Lamb's supper would be in heaven.
No, "the wedding feast/supper" IS the earthly Millennial Kingdom age

(or at least its inauguration).


Its location is on the earth.

It commences upon His "RETURN" to the earth at Rev19.


(the Greek word G347 also speaks to this: used in Matt8:11 and its parallel [see that text--it is speaking of the MK age]; and used in Lk12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347])


If it's not as you say, so be it.
[headscratcher]


Now, after reading what you wrote I'm still not convinced one bit.
It doesn't seem you've recognized my points...



... it is as if you are doing the same thing that some folks do when (for example) they read the sentence in 2 Thessalonians 2:8, which says,

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming,"

...and they INCORRECTLY conclude that: "this verse is saying 'when the man of sin is revealed, he is destroyed because he's 'revealed' at Christ's 2nd Coming' coz that's what the sentence in 2:8 SAYS [see it right there in front of your nose!]" (they say).

But the sentence DOES NOT SAY THAT, see. They've INJECTED that meaning INTO verse 8, because THEY REASON (in their own minds) that this why this sentence is saying (of that person) both "revealed" and "destroyed" in the same breath [/sentence].

But the verse says NOTHING about "destroyed WHEN he's revealed."

They just imagine that it is saying such, and by injecting the word "WHEN" INTO that text (2:8), which isn't there!


You have not proven the rapture of the church is before the various verses i presented. I know you explained 2 Thess 1:1-10 and explained the meaning of vs10 and how "glorified" in his saints etc.
Again, there is no word "WHEN [G3752]" in verse 7 (that word is LATER in v.10... which is speaking only of the v.9 item, which is "future" to vv.7-8 ["[who] SHALL BE "[FUTURE tense]"--identifying "who," but not saying "at the same moment as the previous verses"])



Please read the following I wrote to oyster, my post 39. I will put it here.
I HAD read it. = )

That's what I was addressing in my previous post.



There is NO WORD "WHEN [G3752]" in verse 7; instead it is the word "IN [en G1722]" ("IN [en G1722] the revelation of").




And the phrase "the revelation" is a NOUN (not the VERB "shall be revealed" you show here)


"Did you actual read the rest of the verse where it says, "When" will the church get rest? It's right there in front of your nose. "When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire."
In my post, I suggested you look at the Greek:




The word "WHEN [G3752]" doesn't come in until v.10 (which v.10 is only talking about the v.9 "future tense [to that]" item--"who SHALL BE [future tense; identifying the ones "who" shall be] punished with everlasting destruction AWAY-FROM..." which item IS at His Second Coming to the earth [Rev19] point in the chronology).





Instead, v.7 is saying "rest / repose with us IN [G1722] THE REVELATION OF..."






...so the "IN FLAMING FIRE" part and the "INFLICTING VENGEANCE ON" (and the "with His MIGHTY ANGELS" part) is what PRECEDES them being sent "away-from" Him at the point in time of His Second Coming to the earth (<--this, at the same point in time as 2Th2:8b [man of sin "DESTROYED"], but NOT 2Th2:8a point in the chronology [when the man of sin is "REVEALED," which is 7 years PRIOR TO THAT POINT]).






It is not in the Greek text in v.7 "WHEN [G3752]" (no, that word comes in v.10)...

...and consequently it is because of your pre-supposing (a "post-trib" idea) that you are INJECTING INTO what vv.7-8 are saying (which is actually what will occur OVER SOME TIME and PRIOR TO what vv.9-10 are speaking of [His Second Coming to to the earth point in time Rev19])... you also are smooshing things in this passage together to fit into a moment of time (the day of His Second Coming to the earth Rev19)...

IOW, the JUDGMENTS throughout the bulk of Rev (many chapters'-worth!) PRECEDE what takes place in Rev19 (when He will send them away to "everlasting punishment AWAY-FROM" His presence).

Such is also the case here in our present text under discussion. = )


Read the text how it is actually written (in the Greek), not the version that seems (in your mind) to "fit" your idea (you are imposing upon the text).





That's my two cents. Hope it helps. = )

Once that part is grasped, we can further discuss why it is so that we will NOT be present on the earth FOR "the day of the Lord / Tribulation period [aspect of it]" due to "our Rapture" event. :)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#22
Why does the Apostle John (who is a very smart apostle) tell them to look out for the antichrist if the supposed rapture is going to happen before he appears? Notice also, even back in John's day he and other apostles were expecting the antichrist that Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24:15.
In this text, you are INJECTING the "idea" of [John telling them to] "LOOK OUT FOR" the antichrist.

Instead, this text is stating the FACT (as pre-tribbers also agree) "ye have heard [<--this phrase is used when referring back to OT texts (example: Matt5 several times)] THAT ANTICHRIST IS COMING" (that is a FACT of Scripture: Dan9:26 had said, "the prince THAT SHALL COME / COMING"), the text in 1Jn says nothing about "BE WATCHING FOR him" in this context...



This writer goes on to say, "EVEN NOW there are MANY" ...and goes on to say, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; ... but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

IOW, the writer's focus is on the here and now, and says, in v.22 "he is antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son" (this is even PRIOR TO the Trib yrs, that is, in the here and now... the writer's focus in this passage).


That's how I'm seeing this.



Stating the FACT that "antichrist IS COMING" is not the same as him saying "WATCH OUT FOR" him... that wasn't even the point of his text [the focus]
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#23
@bluto ,

I have a question for you...

...do you believe that, where the writer (in 1Jn2:18) had said to them,

"even G2532 now G3568 are there G1096 many G4183 antichrists; G500 whereby G3606 we know G1097 that G3754 it is G2076 the last G2078 time [/hour] G5610"...

... that what he meant by that was, "whereby we know that we are now in the 7-yr Tribulation Period [what it is commonly-called today]" ??




Are you thinking the writer had meant they were already IN the Trib, back in their day?? and that's what he meant by "it is the last hour"?



(I don't THINK you mean that, but do you? I'm asking)