Apologetics: witnessing to atheists

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Dec 13, 2023
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Its actually quite the opposite- when one refuses to give God credit for His work and His commandments that even Moses gave God the glory for is putting man above God.

The God of the universe personally wrote His holy and eternal law.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.
Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.
Exo 20:66 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me (God) and keep My (God) commandments.

Moses is not God, nor will he ever be. God is the God of the Universe - Moses was the creation just as we are.

The commandments of God- Jesus quoted from the Ten Commandments and the word of God Jesus used interchangeably, sad no one take this warning more seriously when they ought to


Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—[d]the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”

9 He (God) said to them, “All too well you [e]reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Can someone explain to me the difference between the NT God and the OT God?

The OT God is the God of Moses who commanded the execution of babies per JSH 6:17, 8:2 and who loved Israel (EZR 3:11) more than Gentiles, whereas the NT God revealed via Jesus and Paul that He loves even His enemies and wants to save everyone who accepts the Gospel (1TM 2:3-4).

When OT Judaism was reformed by Jesus and his apostles, Paul taught (in RM 2:28-29, 4:16-17 & GL 3:29) that what matters is not the religion of our parents, but whether each of us has faith like Abraham in the one true God. The purpose of Judaism was to provide the heritage for Messiah and the Gospel of Christ for the benefit of all people (RM 3:21-31, 9:4-5a, IS 42:1-6, GN 22:18, DT 9:5-6).
 
Dec 13, 2023
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Can someone explain to me the difference between the NT God and the OT God?

The OT God is the God of Moses who commanded the execution of babies per JSH 6:17, 8:2 and who loved Israel (EZR 3:11) more than Gentiles, whereas the NT God revealed via Jesus and Paul that He loves even His enemies and wants to save everyone who accepts the Gospel (1TM 2:3-4).

When OT Judaism was reformed by Jesus and his apostles, Paul taught (in RM 2:28-29, 4:16-17 & GL 3:29) that what matters is not the religion of our parents, but whether each of us has faith like Abraham in the one true God. The purpose of Judaism was to provide the heritage for Messiah and the Gospel of Christ for the benefit of all people (RM 3:21-31, 9:4-5a, IS 42:1-6, GN 22:18, DT 9:5-6).
So you think there are different Gods that are on different pages and the God's of heaven are at odds with each other? Not sure who taught you that but the God of Moses is Jesus, who changes not.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made

It was Jesus who made the heavens and earth, it was Jesus speaking the Ten Commandments, it was Jesus who ordered the babies of Egypt due to their disobedience to be executed and its the same Jesus who gave us His life so each one of use can be saved if we accept His gift of salvation and abide in Him, and it will be the same Jesus who destroys all sin and sinners both young and old at the end of time if our name is not written in the Book of Life because we wanted to stay in darkness (sin) instead of coming to light and let Jesus help us overcome through Him. John 3:18-21 John 14:15-18
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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The real issue here isn't keeping the law, but how can the law actually be observed. Who here can even explain all that is required of an individual to perform the 1st commandment? If you can, please do so. If you can't, how then can anyone actually keep the commandment?

Thankfully, God has provided a way. By walking under the influence of the Spirit, one can actually live sin free. But this isn't accomplished through an act our will focusing on the law. No one ever kept the law by trying to keep the law. The motions of sin in the flesh will guarantee the failure of this approach. See James 1 for the anatomy of sin. Rather, our effort should be to humble ourselves and divorcing ourselves from any effort, we empty ourselves to be filled with an alternative Director. He Who cannot sin, will keep us in all righteousness as He propels us.

Perhaps a thread concerning what it is to actually walk in the Spirit is warranted.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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The real issue here isn't keeping the law, but how can the law actually be observed. Who here can even explain all that is required of an individual to perform the 1st commandment? If you can, please do so. If you can't, how then can anyone actually keep the commandment?

Thankfully, God has provided a way. By walking under the influence of the Spirit, one can actually live sin free. But this isn't accomplished through an act our will focusing on the law. No one ever kept the law by trying to keep the law. The motions of sin in the flesh will guarantee the failure of this approach. See James 1 for the anatomy of sin. Rather, our effort should be to humble ourselves and divorcing ourselves from any effort, we empty ourselves to be filled with an alternative Director. He Who cannot sin, will keep us in all righteousness as He propels us.

Perhaps a thread concerning what it is to actually walk in the Spirit is warranted.
Don’t let imputed righteousness go to your head. You are still a sinner though perhaps better than Paul who did not claim perfection in Philippians 4.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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So you think there are different Gods that are on different pages and the God's of heaven are at odds with each other? Not sure who taught you that but the God of Moses is Jesus, who changes not.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made

It was Jesus who made the heavens and earth, it was Jesus speaking the Ten Commandments, it was Jesus who ordered the babies of Egypt due to their disobedience to be executed and its the same Jesus who gave us His life so each one of use can be saved if we accept His gift of salvation and abide in Him, and it will be the same Jesus who destroys all sin and sinners both young and old at the end of time if our name is not written in the Book of Life because we wanted to stay in darkness (sin) instead of coming to light and let Jesus help us overcome through Him. John 3:18-21 John 14:15-18
No, I think the NT concept of God supersedes the OT understanding along the lines of walking in the Spirit instead of seeking salvation by observing the law in your next post.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Don’t let imputed righteousness go to your head. You are still a sinner though perhaps better than Paul who did not claim perfection in Philippians 4.
What in my post suggests that I don't believe I'm still a sinner?
 
Dec 13, 2023
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No, I think the NT concept of God supersedes the OT understanding along the lines of walking in the Spirit instead of seeking salvation by observing the law in your next post.
You're free to think what you want but we are told by Jesus to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. God is the same both OT and NT. Sin is the same, the main difference between the NT and OT is how we go about forgiveness of sins. No longer through the blood of goats and sheep's because they never really forgave sin it was always just a placeholder for Christ, only the blood of Christ can forgive sins, He never died so we can continue in sin Heb 10:26-30, He came to save us from sin Mat 1:21 we too must take up our cross and die of self (sin) and be reborn in Christ walking just as Christ did, who if we abide in Him will follow in His footsteps John 15:10 1 John 2:6 Mat 15:4 1 Peter 2:21-22
 
Oct 19, 2024
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You're free to think what you want but we are told by Jesus to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. God is the same both OT and NT. Sin is the same, the main difference between the NT and OT is how we go about forgiveness of sins. No longer through the blood of goats and sheep's because they never really forgave sin it was always just a placeholder for Christ, only the blood of Christ can forgive sins, He never died so we can continue in sin Heb 10:26-30, He came to save us from sin Mat 1:21 we too must take up our cross and die of self (sin) and be reborn in Christ walking just as Christ did, who if we abide in Him will follow in His footsteps John 15:10 1 John 2:6 Mat 15:4 1 Peter 2:21-22
So do you think the NT concept of God’s will is no different from the OT and did not supersede it?
 
Dec 13, 2023
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So do you think the NT concept of God’s will is no different from the OT and did not supersede it?
Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God in His own Words said He does not change, sad professed Christians believe in Him, but not His teachings.

Our salvation has always been from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Sin is breaking God's law - His version Rom 7:7 Mat 5:17-30 James 2:10-12

If we abide in Him we will live as Jesus lived which this is the faith that reconciles us

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

God in His own Words said He does not change, sad professed Christians believe in Him, but not His teachings.

Our salvation has always been from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30. Sin is breaking God's law - His version Rom 7:7 Mat 5:17-30 James 2:10-12

If we abide in Him we will live as Jesus lived which this is the faith that reconciles us

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
Sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith to choose between the two options in DT 30:19. That is why Paul went “every Sabbath to the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks” (ACTS 18:4)! “He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.” (ACTS 28:23b) “Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. (ACTS 28:24) They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul made this final statement: The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving, for this people’s heart has become calloused.” (ACTS 28:25-27a)
 

SabbathBlessing

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Dec 13, 2023
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Sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith to choose between the two options in DT 30:19. That is why Paul went “every Sabbath to the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks” (ACTS 18:4)! “He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.” (ACTS 28:23b) “Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. (ACTS 28:24) They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul made this final statement: The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving, for this people’s heart has become calloused.” (ACTS 28:25-27a)
God defines sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 not us.

Yes, the apostles taught the Word of God to both Jew and Gentiles every Sabbath, just as Jesus did when He lived Luke 4:16 because that's what a Christians means- to be a follower of Christ, why God's Word is still being taught from one Sabbath to another in church because that's what a follower of Christ does, they follow in His footsteps, just as the apostles did, just as we should. Sin separated us from God Isa 59:2 but one day soon the saints will come before God on His holy Sabbath Isa 66:23 instead of just in Spirit, the way it was always meant to be from the beginning Mat 2:27 Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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They don't while walking in the Spirit = Spirit-filled.
So Paul did believe it was possible to live sinlessly. And that's all I stated.
Now...if you apply the same scrutiny to yourself that you apply to me, you can put that newfound beam to better use.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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God defines sin 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 not us.

Yes, the apostles taught the Word of God to both Jew and Gentiles every Sabbath, just as Jesus did when He lived Luke 4:16 because that's what a Christians means- to be a follower of Christ, why God's Word is still being taught from one Sabbath to another in church because that's what a follower of Christ does, they follow in His footsteps, just as the apostles did, just as we should. Sin separated us from God Isa 59:2 but one day soon the saints will come before God on His holy Sabbath Isa 66:23 instead of just in Spirit, the way it was always meant to be from the beginning Mat 2:27 Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11
Yes, Jesus and the apostles taught GW (especially the Gospel of Christ) to everyone because sinful humanity retains the image of God or moral free will, so every normal adult soul is able by faith/volition to choose to between the two options of 1. repent/choose life or 2. do not repent/choose cursing (cf. DT 30:19 & MT 23:37).
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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So Paul did believe it was possible to live sinlessly. And that's all I stated.
Now...if you apply the same scrutiny to yourself that you apply to me, you can put that newfound beam to better use.
Uh, YOU were the one with the beam; I was the one confessing being a sinner, like Paul, who posits earthly perfection as a goal rather than as a possibility, because surely he must have been the most mature Christian who has ever lived.