Applying God's Word to Politics

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GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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I don't think the US was improving morally. I think the immorality was continually building.

The proverbial last straw has to be preceded by an accumulation of straws. I'd been paying more attention - not intensely but watching - the accumulating straws of degeneracy since the POTUS debates when the homosexual agenda first made it to that stage. That was an intensified moment for me based upon Scripture. Everything after that IMO while watching it was getting nearer & nearer that last straw. In a way it didn't surprise me that the sexual degeneracy issue became more and more pronounced. I'd been saying in any discussions on the matter that the real underlying agenda (not of all but nevertheless deep down) was not about marriage but ultimately about erasing God's creation in kinds - i.e. erasing God - and there was plenty more of that downslide that had to show itself.

America, it seems to me has been known to be the sleeping lion that you don't want to kick. I think Trump's win in 2016 caused the opposition to out themselves in their hatred for him and country and then 2020 on became the all-out kicking the lion period. I was actually surprised at how much and how fast the relatively covered became uncovered. We'll see how ferocious the new administration turns out to be in response. My prayers are that it is not shy re: bringing the Country back to law and order not to mention natural realities, efficiency, self-reliance, economic responsibility, etc. We'll see...
I certainly would not disagree with your view that "the immorality was continually building". In fact, I compiled a summary of how it was building that was posted previously but I will share it with you:

How We Got Here: A Summary

After declaring independence from England in 1776, winning it in the Revolutionary War and defending it in the War of 1812, slavery caused the Civil War in 1860 and then struggles for equality and the right for all citizens to vote threatened our unity. In the 1900s, dictators attacked freedom, provoking World War I in 1914, WWII in 1940 and the Korean War in 1950. Then the high cost and eventual loss of both the Vietnam War in 1973 and the War on Islamic Terrorists from 9-11-91 until 2019 divided and damaged our country. Today (2022) our nation that began as a republic established by the U.S. Constitution appears to be in danger of becoming an authoritarian socialist state.

While the history of wars against threats to our liberty is fairly well known, what is only recently becoming apparent is the threat our disunity will end in socialism, which now governs most of the world and almost every aspect of our society–education, entertainment, news, social media, banking and monopolistic businesses–corrupting politicians and elections. The main cause of this corruption is that following WWII America allowed subversive educators to infiltrate universities, including Herbert Marcuse and Marxist Saul Alinsky, whose book Rules for Radicals was dedicated to Satan and whose rules included deception and violence (the end justifies the means). The teachings of such radical professors has influenced many college students (including Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) to favor socialist policies. (See The War for America’s Soul by Gorka, p. 59-65.) Many Americans are oblivious to the slow disintegration of the Constitutional consensus, because the owners of most news media were similarly educated and sympathetic.

A main financier of the socialist movement has been George Soros, who became a billionaire, established a network called the Open Society Foundation to promote a global government, and since 2003 has been financing numerous socialist groups in the U.S. (See The Shadow Party by Horowitz & Poe, p. 78-95 & 177-82.) Another leader of the globalist cabal or “new world order” is Klaus Schwab, founder of the World Economic Forum in 1971, which meets annually in Davos, Switzerland. He envisions a technological revolution that transforms the world (including America), converting humans who freely worship God into drones coerced by a fascist-communist state as in China. A prominent American participant in the WEF is Bill Gates. (See The Great Reset by A. Jones, p. 4-7, 28 & 95.)

The globalists began to conspire with communist China (the CCP) in 1978, when the Trilateral Commission befriended Chinese leaders and sought a New International Economic Order. Since then the CCP has pursued a clever strategy that has steadily weakened the U.S. as China gained power, currently on display as its military buildup, the COVID-19 pandemic, aggression against Taiwan and the “One Road One Belt” policy. It aims to surpass the U.S. and dominate Eurasia by the year 2049. (See Reset, p. 40-44 & War, p. 136.) And now, authoritative Biden administration dictates are weakening the U.S. and attempting to banish conservative Constitutionalist opposition. Much of the news media fail to report this truth, so that many people remain ignorant of the dissolution of the American dream of liberty for all (like frogs being boiled alive because the water temperature is raised slowly). Where will we go from here?
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Where will we go from here?

Looks again like you do a lot of homework. Much deeper than I go in such things.

There are several things going on that fascinate me. E.g. the new admin, tech and all its abilities and outreach, the forward-thinking minds that are working on such things, thus the sciences, a change or revived activity in Christians re: politics, and so on... In the meantime, for me it's mainly LGW while watching what He allows in His creation...
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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Looks again like you do a lot of homework. Much deeper than I go in such things.

There are several things going on that fascinate me. E.g. the new admin, tech and all its abilities and outreach, the forward-thinking minds that are working on such things, thus the sciences, a change or revived activity in Christians re: politics, and so on... In the meantime, for me it's mainly LGW while watching what He allows in His creation...
Well, I was motivated by serving as a Precinct Chairperson for the 2020 election to prepare a flyer for passing out door to door in the neighborhood pulling items from the sources cited (using the gift of editing :^)
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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"I think the people of California — they're willing to pay high taxes. They're willing to support things that maybe they don't necessarily agree with because there is a basic assumption that underlies it all, that our government is here to take care of us," he continued. "But now in a situation like this, when there's total mismanagement, when people are scared, when there's 0% containment, people are asking themselves a question, what did all those tax dollars go for?"

Are the devastating fires divine judgment on corrupt applications of atheist words to California's government?
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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For anyone who watched the hearings regarding Pete Hegseth's nomination yesterday, you may have seen how he applied GW to politics when he confessed former sins and claimed reformation thanks to his conversion to Christ.

(Unfortunately, he was too reluctant to do that immediately when his problematic behaviors were first accused, so the dirty laundry was exposed longer than necessary.)

I was rather amazed when one of Pete's defenders on the committee accused the members of doing the same things or at least knowing Congress members who did such things without them being accused: drinking to excess and cheating on spouses! (But that is another example of applying GW to politics :^)
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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For anyone who watched the hearings regarding Pete Hegseth's nomination yesterday, you may have seen how he applied GW to politics when he confessed former sins and claimed reformation thanks to his conversion to Christ.

(Unfortunately, he was too reluctant to do that immediately when his problematic behaviors were first accused, so the dirty laundry was exposed longer than necessary.)

I was rather amazed when one of Pete's defenders on the committee accused the members of doing the same things or at least knowing Congress members who did such things without them being accused: drinking to excess and cheating on spouses! (But that is another example of applying GW to politics :^)
Watched parts of it. It was refreshing to watch a Christian stand for Jesus Christ in such a venue.

I think you're referring to Mr. Mullin's comments. A highlight IMO. The blatant hypocrisy should be hammered constantly
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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I am seeing references to "manifest destiny", the belief in the pioneer days that it was God's will for European immigrants to go west to the Pacific. It seems that some are applying that belief to reacquiring the Panama Canal and possibly acquiring Greenland for strategic purposes of national defense, which reminds me that immigration is the most difficult moral issue for me, because if it was divinely blessed for folks to move to America in colonial days--which I tend to think it was--by what (divine) right are people prevented from coming here (or anywhere for that matter) these days? It seems as though throughout history immigration always entailed KOTH (fighting king of the hill), but what is God's will regarding this issue--which also applies to the resettlement of Jews in Palestine following WWII?

Do you see what I mean?
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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It seems as though throughout history immigration always entailed KOTH (fighting king of the hill),
I suppose it's important that American citizens, not current leadership, follow law or KOTH would rapidly resolve the illegal immigration issue.

Isn't the Biblical basis re: immigration that of borders and then looking at Israel and seeing what God required for proselytes? Walking across the border and setting up a foreign culture doesn't seem the norm Biblically.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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I suppose it's important that American citizens, not current leadership, follow law or KOTH would rapidly resolve the illegal immigration issue.

Isn't the Biblical basis re: immigration that of borders and then looking at Israel and seeing what God required for proselytes? Walking across the border and setting up a foreign culture doesn't seem the norm Biblically.
Well, we need to explore what IS indicated by Biblical teachings, perhaps beginning with the Golden Rule and by defining "foreign" as ungodly evil that cannot be compromised with or tolerated.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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Well, we need to explore what IS indicated by Biblical teachings, perhaps beginning with the Golden Rule and by defining "foreign" as ungodly evil that cannot be compromised with or tolerated.
This topic is made even more relevant as today we watch the confirmation hearing for Kristi Noem as the head of the DHS. :^)
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Well, we need to explore what IS indicated by Biblical teachings, perhaps beginning with the Golden Rule and by defining "foreign" as ungodly evil that cannot be compromised with or tolerated.
Repeat: Israel was not to allow open borders and the infiltration of cultures. Similarly, the Ekklesia does not allow infiltration of teachings or outside standards. Both were/are open to orderly immigration according to standards - these last 3 words being key.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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Repeat: Israel was not to allow open borders and the infiltration of cultures. Similarly, the Ekklesia does not allow infiltration of teachings or outside standards. Both were/are open to orderly immigration according to standards - these last 3 words being key.
Yes, because the Canaanite culture was ungodly/evil, which is why I mentioned that. I agree with your application of that parameter to the church. Perhaps others will help us build upon this beginning and apply it to the belief in manifest destiny by the early Americans.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Yes, because the Canaanite culture was ungodly/evil, which is why I mentioned that. I agree with your application of that parameter to the church. Perhaps others will help us build upon this beginning and apply it to the belief in manifest destiny by the early Americans.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be hedging. IMO one of the primary considerations in any immigration allowance is application of, acceptance of, and abiding by its standards. That held true for Israel. It is applicable to the Ekklesia and IMO discipline has become way too lax. It is applicable to any organization, or the organization is altered.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be hedging. IMO one of the primary considerations in any immigration allowance is application of, acceptance of, and abiding by its standards. That held true for Israel. It is applicable to the Ekklesia and IMO discipline has become way too lax. It is applicable to any organization, or the organization is altered.
So how do you apply your “hedge” to the immigration of the Europeans to America and of the Jews to Palestine?
 

studier

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Apr 18, 2024
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So how do you apply your “hedge” to the immigration of the Europeans to America and of the Jews to Palestine?
The basis for my opinion is standards. If someone wants to join another nation, then they agree to abide by their standards. It seems pretty basic and in line with our Faith and living by the standards of our KING.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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The basis for my opinion is standards. If someone wants to join another nation, then they agree to abide by their standards. It seems pretty basic and in line with our Faith and living by the standards of our KING.
You continue to hedge by not applying your “standards” to the cases I cited. Do you want me to go first?
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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You continue to hedge by not applying your “standards” to the cases I cited. Do you want me to go first?

If you'd like. In advance I'll say I'm not certain how much I'll remain involved in this, but I'll read your next post and see where you want to take this.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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If you'd like. In advance I'll say I'm not certain how much I'll remain involved in this, but I'll read your next post and see where you want to take this.
Okay.

Since KOTH is surely not God’s will, what is His will regarding migration. What biblical teachings are applicable?

The Bible mentions the migration of Cain (in GN 4:12 & 16) and migrations following the building of the tower at Babel (in GN 11:1-9). Secular histories cite migrations by unknown peoples that established civilizations near the mouths of the Indus, Nile and Euphrates rivers, followed by Akkadians invading the Sumerians and Aryans invading India about 2270 B.C. Abram migrated from Mesopotamia (per GN 12:1-10), then Israel settled in Canaan (GN 35:1-21 & 46:1-7) about the time Sumeria was conquered by Amorites, then Kassites. Moses led the Israelites from Egypt to Canaan (EX 13:17-20, 15:22-16:1, 17:1, 19:1-2, 33:1-2, NM 21:10-31 & NM 33).

NM 33 instructs the Israelites to drive out all of the inhabitants of Canaan so that their idolatry would not give them trouble. NM 35:33-34 tells them not to pollute or defile the land with bloodshed, so apparently driving out was not supposed to be by means of murder or genocide and infanticide. (They did not wipe out the Gideonites :^)

Listing the history of migrations merely documents that KOTH was the way it always occurred, so now let us consider how the migration to America by Europeans should have been done in accordance with God’s Will. We begin with the only hint we have had thus far—the proscription against bloodshed/murder. A NT principle that can be applicable is MT 7:12, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” An OT one is EX 20:15, “You shall not steal.” These two commands indicate that when people migrate they must do so with the intention of compensating the owners of the new land rather than of conquering them by means of violence.

(How am I doing so far? :^)
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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(How am I doing so far? :^)
As well as you think you are I suppose. You know Bible discussions; there's always a 'yeah, but..." that we consider or reject or ignore. I told you I'd read your next post, so, in response:

I'm not a history buff with some exception for how interpretive traditions have come about. My focus has been what does the actual language of the Text say and mean? I do realize for some topics we need to get into Israel's history if for nothing more, simply to get context.

When I first saw you reference the "Golden Rule" to apply it to immigration and history, my concern was that there would be a slant to this that may or may not apply. When you defined "foreign" I had more concern. Coupled with your word "omnilove" and the hardening and parables discussions, more concern. Then, I'm not certain we're talking about current day border policies which have become front and center in America - even globally - and will remain so for some time, or whether we're talking about how America came about. My attitude is we are where we are, now what do we do about it?

Next, FWIW, it's a lot of work to chase down Scripture references in these discussions especially on a site that doesn't link them to the Text. You copy and paste many of them and I won't do that work. For this reason alone, I don't read a lot of what you post.

So, knowing, the commandment not to steal, the so-called Golden Rule (where most who use it negate the part about it being a statement about the Tanakh), I did look at your NM35 reference to see where you might be headed. NM35 is part of the legislation for handling murder and manslaughter in Israel. It's really not in the context of immigration or taking over and cleaning out lands. So, my concern grows.

If someone else takes you up on this, maybe I'll read and chime in. If you want to state clearly and simply what you think the US immigration policy should be (on a thread re; politics) and/or what you think the new Admin should or should not be doing - since it obviously has a very open agenda on immigration - maybe you could just state it. Or, if you've already done so and would like to point to it, maybe I'll look at it and comment.

Thanks.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
2,955
673
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As well as you think you are I suppose. You know Bible discussions; there's always a 'yeah, but..." that we consider or reject or ignore. I told you I'd read your next post, so, in response:

I'm not a history buff with some exception for how interpretive traditions have come about. My focus has been what does the actual language of the Text say and mean? I do realize for some topics we need to get into Israel's history if for nothing more, simply to get context.

When I first saw you reference the "Golden Rule" to apply it to immigration and history, my concern was that there would be a slant to this that may or may not apply. When you defined "foreign" I had more concern. Coupled with your word "omnilove" and the hardening and parables discussions, more concern. Then, I'm not certain we're talking about current day border policies which have become front and center in America - even globally - and will remain so for some time, or whether we're talking about how America came about. My attitude is we are where we are, now what do we do about it?

Next, FWIW, it's a lot of work to chase down Scripture references in these discussions especially on a site that doesn't link them to the Text. You copy and paste many of them and I won't do that work. For this reason alone, I don't read a lot of what you post.

So, knowing, the commandment not to steal, the so-called Golden Rule (where most who use it negate the part about it being a statement about the Tanakh), I did look at your NM35 reference to see where you might be headed. NM35 is part of the legislation for handling murder and manslaughter in Israel. It's really not in the context of immigration or taking over and cleaning out lands. So, my concern grows.

If someone else takes you up on this, maybe I'll read and chime in. If you want to state clearly and simply what you think the US immigration policy should be (on a thread re; politics) and/or what you think the new Admin should or should not be doing - since it obviously has a very open agenda on immigration - maybe you could just state it. Or, if you've already done so and would like to point to it, maybe I'll look at it and comment.

Thanks.
Thanks for your comments. My guess is that no one else on CC has thought much about this issue either, so I will drop the discussion unless someone else chimes in at this point. (HAND :^)