Are muslims really worshiping satan?

Ryan1976 · Jul 24, 2009

I want to be clear. I'm not saying that God is not only going to save the believers that have the right doctrinal view of Jesus. My point is that Holy Scripture is in fact Holy but we must always realize and put it firmly in our minds and hearts that our interpretations of those Holy scriptures is not necessarily Holy. There is only one right interpretation and that interpretation is the one that is in line with what the Holy scriptures truly mean and say.

Philippians 2:12
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.."

wwjd_kilden · Jul 24, 2009

above said:

*Sorry, kong post

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Ephesians:
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Cup-of-Ruin · Jul 24, 2009

Ryan1976 said:

You cannot have the Father without the Son....

Which means both Jews and Muslims are without God, if you say they have the Father, than you are without the Son...It is only Christians that are saved, no one else, you are wrong, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the Lord Jesus Christ, if you do not believe that then you are not a Christian, and you are lost...

above · Jul 24, 2009

Baptistrw said:

How can Clark Kent be Superman if Superman has no glasses?

Ryan1976 · Jul 24, 2009

Baptistrw said:

If Catholics are not Christians then I suppose that no one was saved for nearly 1500 years after the resurrection except for the disciples. You can't even conclude that those the disciples taught were saved and or were Christian because the first time people started calling themselves Catholic was around 70-100 AD. You also are forced to take the position that the so-called reformers were not saved until they were ex-communicated by the Roman Catholics and established their own churches which, oddly enough, they named after themselves.

If you hold this view then it might spook you a little to realize that if it were possible and Luther and Calvin and Zwingli and even the Anabaptists were to come back to see what has become of their denominations, they would not even recognize them as being Lutheran, Calvinist, Zwinglian and or Anabaptist.

The argument by Protestants against Catholics that they hold to the traditions of men, teachings of man, fell to pagan influences and worship false idols and should reject Papal supremacy is ironic because there are 30,000 protestant denominations that are separated precisely because they have instituted traditions of men, teachings of man, fall pray to many of the post-modernist and enlightenment age empty philosophies and have used those influences to color their interpretations of the scriptures. The mere fact that all 30,000 denoms can't agree across the board on any one thing other than Jesus is Lord yet all say they are bible based and reflective of the True teachings of the Church also smells a lot like the allegations they hold against the Roman Catholics. In regards to Papal Supremacy/Infallibility it's odd that each denomination down to their individuals believes that they are the one who hold the power to declare what verses means what and their personal judgment is supreme and in many cases is even Infallible. The fact that people worship their private interpretations above the actual scriptures is not unlike idol worship.

All 30,000 denominations say that they hold the right and true interpretation of the bible otherwise they would belong to another denomination. All 30,000 denominations say that they believe what they believe because they are led by the Holy Spirit to believe what they believe. That there are at the very least 30,000 conflicting sets of belief means that there are the very least 29,999 sets of beliefs that are wrong. The Holy Spirit does not lead believers to believe in conflicting beliefs.

If the Catholics aren't Christian then Christ lied when he said:

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Look at that 30,000 number and ask yourself why Jesus prayed this prayer:

John 17:22-23

22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

I leave this thread in hopes that if you don't agree with a single thing I've posted that at the very least you can agree that Jesus wasn't playin' when he said:

Mark 4:23-25

23If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."

24"Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more. 25Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

wwjd_kilden · Jul 24, 2009

it doesn't matter wether or not their god is ours (though I personally don't think he is the same)
because as long as they don't believe in Christ, they are not justified.
"For we have all sinned" Rom 3.23
"23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."Romans 6:23
"25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. " Romans 4:25

Titus 3
..he (God) saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

even the devil himself believes in God...

Ryan1976 · Jul 24, 2009

Baptistrw said:

You may have to ask the Jews how can YHWH be YHWH if Jesus is not His Son.

You are aware that many Arabic speaking Christians call God, Allah? Yes, there are Christians that speak Arabic.

The numerous names of God have been a source of debate amongst biblical scholars. Some have advanced the variety as proof that the Torah has many authors (see documentary hypothesis). It is also held that the only "name of God" in the Tanakh is YHWH. Whereas words such as Elohim (God), El (mighty one), El Shaddai (almighty God), Adonai (master), El Elyon (most high God), Avinu (our Father), etc. are not names, but titles, highlighting different aspects of YHWH, and the various roles which He has. This is similar to how a man may be called by his name, or by 'Dad', 'Husband', 'Boss', 'Sir', 'Son', etc, but his personal name is the only one that can be correctly identified as his name. In the Tanakh, YHWH is the personal name of the God of Israel, whereas the other words are titles which are ascribed to Him. -- wiki

Deny the father and refuse thy name.

A rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.

Ryan1976 · Jul 24, 2009

Cup-of-Ruin said:

I'm not saying that Muslims and Jews HAVE the Father. They know OF the Father but have not the Son so because they have not the Son, they have not the Father. They only worship what they know of the Father. They do not actually KNOW the Father.

So are they actually worshiping THE Father? No. How can you worship who you do not know. However, they are directing their worship toward who they believe is OUR God. They just don't KNOW Him. It's like trying to shoot the Sun with an arrow. It's just not going to fly.

God bless.

Baptistrw · Jul 24, 2009

Ryan1976 said:

You may have to ask the Jews how can YHWH be YHWH if Jesus is not His Son.

You are aware that many Arabic speaking Christians call God, Allah? Yes, there are Christians that speak Arabic.

The numerous names of God have been a source of debate amongst biblical scholars. Some have advanced the variety as proof that the Torah has many authors (see documentary hypothesis). It is also held that the only "name of God" in the Tanakh is YHWH. Whereas words such as Elohim (God), El (mighty one), El Shaddai (almighty God), Adonai (master), El Elyon (most high God), Avinu (our Father), etc. are not names, but titles, highlighting different aspects of YHWH, and the various roles which He has. This is similar to how a man may be called by his name, or by 'Dad', 'Husband', 'Boss', 'Sir', 'Son', etc, but his personal name is the only one that can be correctly identified as his name. In the Tanakh, YHWH is the personal name of the God of Israel, whereas the other words are titles which are ascribed to Him. -- wiki

Deny the father and refuse thy name.

A rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.

So if I worship a God, let's call his name Otis, and he is the only God I worship, is he the real God? Even if nothing about him is anything close to the God of the Bible?

above · Jul 24, 2009

Baptistrw said:

Do you even read what other people write? That wasn't his point. That was nobodies point. People like you cast a bad light on every single christian. Thank you very much.

Ryan1976 · Jul 24, 2009

Baptistrw said:

No. Of course not. If Allah means God and God is God then I might aim my prayers, worship, beliefs AT God but still, though it is aimed at God, it doesn't mean that I am praying to, worshiping and believing in the True God because the True God is only truly worshiped, prayed to and believed by His true believers, those that KNOW Him.

The Jews and Muslims know OF God but they do not KNOW Him because they don't have the Son. However, to say that Christian Arabs that speak another language and who call upon God using the name, Allah, though they too have the Son, are not truly Christians is like saying that anyone that doesn't speak English and Call God, God in English are not true believers.

Did Jesus speak English? What is God in Aramaic/Koine Greek? Did Jesus pray to a different Father than we English speaking folks?

I hope not.

God bless

Densetzu · Jul 24, 2009

Baptistrw said:

Your also assuming that what God is like is so cut and dry. People have been trying to figure God out for thousands of years. The ancient Hebrews of Moses' time saw YHWH as a sky-God whose main focus was ritual and law, and punishments were harsh. The prophets saw Mercy and Social Justice as more central to God's character, and taught that God was not just the God of Israel but the god of the Universe. Jesus and Paul taught that God deeply loves every person, and that love is more important than all the miracles in the world.

The Koran's conception of God certainly differs from the Christian conception, but then so does the picture of God in the Torah. Now it's arguable--and I believe--that Islam has the wrong conception of God, and we should by all means teach them the truth. But we must do it in love and we must meet them where they're at. If your starting point is "You don't worship God, you worship Satan!" then you're not going to get anywhere.

aprilrenee202 · Jul 24, 2009

How do we know that he isnt the true God of the muslims?

above · Jul 24, 2009

Just not his style. If you look in the bible, Satan always acts very smoothly. I think in the hole bible he only kills 10 men or something like that (opposed to over 2 million killed by god). He is a solicitor, he is trying to tempt people. But all that bloodshed... I think Satan goes direktly after somebody, not over 3 oder 4 corners like it would be if he had talked to Mohammad. Also the Koran despise Satan just as we do. I believe Mohammad just made a lot of stuff up, but he wasn't driven by the devil.

Slepsog4 · Jul 24, 2009

All one has to do is to compare the Quran and Muslim beliefs about Allah with the Bible and Christian theology to know they are different.

Islam denies that God has a son. Therefore, they deny the explicit claims of the NT and Jesus about who He is.

Islam is salvation based on personal perfection rather than the atoning work of the cross.

starfield · Jul 24, 2009

I am not Muslim neither do I know much of the religion but with my little knowledge, I'm going to contribute what I think.

Muslims say they worship God, the creator of the universe. In fact the meaning of Allah in Arabic is God. They believe God will judge everyone at the end just as Christians, but their view of God is erroneous. The Quran denies that Jesus died on the cross and rose and the view the Trinity differs among Christianity and Muslim.

If Muslims and Christians are serving the same God, why are there difference beliefs? Why are they called "Muslims" and not "Christians"? Christianity was founded on Jesus Christ, in fact Christian means Christ-like or follower of Christ. Why do they fight against Christians?

To answer the question, I don't think they are worshiping Satan but God in a wrong way. They have to believe in Jesus Christ the Son of God who died for the atonement of man's sin, for God’s reconciliation with man, and His resurrection. Without that belief, hell is awaiting them. Jesus said "... I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6). If they do not believe in Jesus they cannot come to God.

Pineapple · Jul 24, 2009

Slepsog4 said:

All one has to do is to compare the Quran and Muslim beliefs about Allah with the Bible and Christian theology to know they are different.

Islam denies that God has a son. Therefore, they deny the explicit claims of the NT and Jesus about who He is.

Islam is salvation based on personal perfection rather than the atoning work of the cross.

Totally agree.

mcap · Jul 24, 2009

This confuses me.Their holy book speaks of a God just like ours,but unlike our God theirs is basically off limits.You cannot have a personal relationship with Allah,he does not intertwine himself in human affairs.

daddycat · Jul 24, 2009

above said:

I'm guessing there are not many Baptists in Germany.

watchmen · Jul 24, 2009

Allah is Satan

Are muslims really worshiping satan?

Who do Muslims really worship?

Satan

The God of the bible

A non-existant god

Mickey Mouse

Banned

wwjd_kilden

Guest

Cup-of-Ruin

Guest

Banned

Banned

wwjd_kilden

Guest

Banned

Banned

Baptistrw

Guest

Banned

Banned

Banned

aprilrenee202

Guest

Banned

Slepsog4

Guest

Senior Member

Pineapple

Guest

mcap

Guest

Senior Member

Banned