Are muslims really worshiping satan?

[Lauren]

Muslims are just another extremist group like the kkk and other nut balls.

Well, I don't really consider any of them nutballs. They are people in need of Jesus just like anyone else. Before I was saved, my idea of right and wrong was formed basically from what I had learned from my family growing up (and if they had been extremists, good possibility I would have adopted those beliefs). With a regenerated heart given me from God, the law is written upon my heart now.

 

[Reborn32]

Well, I don't really consider any of them nutballs. They are people in need of Jesus just like anyone else. Before I was saved, my idea of right and wrong was formed basically from what I had learned from my family growing up (and if they had been extremists, good possibility I would have adopted those beliefs). With a regenerated heart given me from God, the law is written upon my heart now.

Well said. God is in charge. Lets just pray for all the lost people.

 

[Lindqvist]

well I guess this thread is going toward death, Christian were killed by the jews for their religion, jews were killed for their relgion, Muslims kill for their religion and have been killed for their religion, America was discoveried so some could have religion, alot die that we could have that freedom, then we have the Catholics killing Christian and Christians killing catholics during the crusader days, and then the Catholics killing Christians to stop the english Bible from being translated and KKK claim to kill for their relgion. the question that lies within our religion, must not be have christians ever killed for their religion or has any body ever been killed for their religion But the question that should be asked here is that no matter what has happen to us christians , were they killed by muslims, catholics, hindus, or kkk, skinheads or any other hate groups, the question is can I being A Christian find forgiveness in my Heart so that My Father, up in heaven will forgive me. hey Let's start a prayer thread , for muslims well while we are at it let's just pray for all the lost, that they might come to The Light of the World, Jesus Christ. take our fingers that is pointed at the world and their sins and turn it upward toward heaven, as in praying hands and drop to our knees and Just PRAY for the lost regardless of religion or skin color

Honestly the first wise thing I've heard you say.

 

[Lauren]

Well said. God is in charge. Lets just pray for all the lost people.

Amen to that!

 

[Thaddaeus]

Honestly the first wise thing I've heard you say.

well you had to know that i would have to get a little wiser hanging around you

 

[SB81848889]

Christianity is not a religion, Its not even just a relationship, its a PERSON. Religion is a man made substitute for God. The only religion that God ever gave was Judaism and that was to show them that they needed their hearts changed because the law ( religion ) has no power to save you. All religion can do is convict you that you need a savior.

The Bible is very clear on how we are to worship In Spirit and Truth as Mahogany said in his post. Man has since the beginning fallen away from worshiping God as he wants, ever since Genesis we have a record of how man has stopped worshiping God and worshiped other pagan or mythical and false Gods. Man has forgotten God, God is a real person and wants our love just as your real father would not want his child thinking his toys or his dolls are his God.

Lindqvist it seems to me that you are not thinking of God as a real person and instead just some force that exists around everything. God is our real loving father way more than even our biological fathers. The bible is very clear about this, and thats why we have the first commandment because God knew our tendancy to worship the created thing instead of the creator.

No one in this thread has said one negative thing about muslims, all I have read about is the heracies in their religion just as all the other cults and isms have mostly heracies and false Gods.

Come out of the superstitious religions including Christianity and recieve Christ.

God bless you

 

[WKK]

Christianity is not a religion, Its not even just a relationship, its a PERSON.

What? Jesus Christ is a person, christianity is the religion that worships him.

Religion is a man made substitute for God. The only religion that God ever gave was Judaism and that was to show them that they needed their hearts changed because the law ( religion ) has no power to save you. All religion can do is convict you that you need a savior.

All religions stem from mankinds honest attempts to understand God, and it would be very arrogant to claim absolute knowledge of a being so complex as an omnipotent God. Islam is just another attempt to understand the divine.

The Bible is very clear on how we are to worship In Spirit and Truth as Mahogany said in his post. Man has since the beginning fallen away from worshiping God as he wants, ever since Genesis we have a record of how man has stopped worshiping God and worshiped other pagan or mythical and false Gods. Man has forgotten God, God is a real person and wants our love just as your real father would not want his child thinking his toys or his dolls are his God.

Yes, the Bible is clear, but we have to remember that the bible was written by mortal men. Even if the writers were inspired by God, they were only human and made a human interpretation of the wisdom god gave them. Do you think that the creator of the universe lets himself be explained in all his glory on a few hundred pages of paper? Can a human being understand more than a glimpse of his wisdom?

Lindqvist it seems to me that you are not thinking of God as a real person and instead just some force that exists around everything. God is our real loving father way more than even our biological fathers. The bible is very clear about this, and thats why we have the first commandment because God knew our tendancy to worship the created thing instead of the creator.

Is the bible not created? In the beginning there was the word, but the bible surely does not contain all of Gods wisdom. And you want to make god anthropomorphic, a practice that sooner or later leads to making god in your image, rather than the opposite. God is not just an enlarged daddy in the sky, he is greater than anything we can imagine.

No one in this thread has said one negative thing about muslims, all I have read about is the heracies in their religion just as all the other cults and isms have mostly heracies and false Gods.

Come out of the superstitious religions including Christianity and recieve Christ.

God bless you

What are the heresies of Islam? The five most important elements in a righteous muslim life are prayer, giving to the poor, visiting the holy city Mekka, admitting that there is only one god and fasting in the month of ramadan. Im not a muslim but these "5 pillars of islam" seem quite reasonable.

When you speak of heresy, you must remember that the idea of the trinity is deeply offensive to a lot of jews and muslims. Both judaism and islam can present evidence of their religion that are just as compelling as the ones in favor of christianity.

And please, don't say you haven't said anything negative about muslim when you call them heretics in the same sentence.

 

[Densetzu]

Christianity is not a religion, Its not even just a relationship, its a PERSON.

No, Christianity is a religion. It involves a relationship with God and is centered around the person of Jesus Christ, but that doesn't make it 'not a religion'.

The Bible is very clear on how we are to worship In Spirit and Truth

The Bible isn't exactly clear on what it means to worship in Spirit and in Truth. My objection to this whole argument is the idea that God automatically rejects all worship if it comes from non-Christians. I can't say that he accepts it, but I don't understand what makes you so sure that he does not.

No one in this thread has said one negative thing about muslims, all I have read about is the heracies in their religion just as all the other cults and isms have mostly heracies and false Gods.

"They worship satan" isn't a negative thing being said about Muslims?

Come out of the superstitious religions including Christianity and recieve Christ.

...Um... What?

 

[starfield]

Come out of the superstitious religions including Christianity and recieve Christ.

Huh? Come out of Christianity and receive Christ? But Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity.

 

[SB81848889]

Well there is alot of christianity that is not worshiping God, and they are calling themselves christians. How else can you develop heretical doctrines then to subscribe to a religion. If you are honest with your self as a believer you can see the difference between religion and a PERSON.

Herecy just means false or wrong teachings, it doesnt mean anything negative to any paticular person, but false teachings are exactly that "false" and I would not be a very loving christian if I didnt point it out. I am not even close to saying I know everything about God and that was not the point of this post. We can and should know what the bible says and everything I have posted is in the bible, so God has given all of us that much knowlege. your argument is simply that an argument.

As I tried to say Islam has heretical teaching ( wrong teachings ) I am not calling all muslims heretics. You put words in my mouth.

You make my point for me that all religion is mans attempt to understand God, and God has authored the bible to lead us to his Son and try to reconcile rebbelious men to himself. No religion neccesary. If you remember the vail was torn in two and we now have direct access to God through Jesus Christ, we have no need of religion.

The bible was written infallibe, so God has given his only revelation in this book, your suggesting that the bible is man made. The bible says 2500 times "God hath said" "Thus sayeth the lord" " God said" So God has made it very clear he is speaking to a fallen man through his word and has told us everything we need to know for salvation and sanctification. Of cource there is way more to God then we can understand but we can understand what he has said. You are turning God into a mustical force as well.

All the ( Wrong teachings ) of Islam have been pointed out in this thread, but the most important and unforgivable is that Jesus Christ is the son of God. We need to inform muslims not defend them.

 

[Densetzu]

The bible was written infallibe, so God has given his only revelation in this book, your suggesting that the bible is man made. The bible says 2500 times "God hath said" "Thus sayeth the lord" " God said" So God has made it very clear he is speaking to a fallen man through his word and has told us everything we need to know for salvation and sanctification. Of cource there is way more to God then we can understand but we can understand what he has said. You are turning God into a mustical force as well.

No, the Bible was not 'written infallible' and it doesn't teach that it's infallible. 'Inspired' does not mean infallible, because all the divine inspiration in the world only goes so far when it is filtered through fallible human beings, and I would argue that Paul was wrong about 'all' Scripture even being inspired. Do you really think a loving God inspired the cursing Psalms?

 

[WKK]

Well there is alot of christianity that is not worshiping God, and they are calling themselves christians. How else can you develop heretical doctrines then to subscribe to a religion. If you are honest with your self as a believer you can see the difference between religion and a PERSON.

What are you talking about? Jesus Christ is the person/god and christianity is the religion that worships him and calls him saviour.

Herecy just means false or wrong teachings, it doesnt mean anything negative to any paticular person, but false teachings are exactly that "false" and I would not be a very loving christian if I didnt point it out. I am not even close to saying I know everything about God and that was not the point of this post. We can and should know what the bible says and everything I have posted is in the bible, so God has given all of us that much knowlege. your argument is simply that an argument..

What bible? you know there are many versions and we cannot be sure which one is the original, true bible. The testimonies of Luke and John and Mark and Matthew were written long after Jesus died and left the earth by people who probably never met him. Im not saying that they are made up, but stories change as time goes by.

As I tried to say Islam has heretical teaching ( wrong teachings ) I am not calling all muslims heretics. You put words in my mouth..

If Islam has heresy in its teachings, then its followers are heretics. Heretic=person who commits heresy.

You make my point for me that all religion is mans attempt to understand God, and God has authored the bible to lead us to his Son and try to reconcile rebbelious men to himself. No religion neccesary. If you remember the vail was torn in two and we now have direct access to God through Jesus Christ, we have no need of religion..

What if god decides to show himself in different ways to different people?

The bible was written infallibe, so God has given his only revelation in this book, your suggesting that the bible is man made. The bible says 2500 times "God hath said" "Thus sayeth the lord" " God said" So God has made it very clear he is speaking to a fallen man through his word and has told us everything we need to know for salvation and sanctification. Of cource there is way more to God then we can understand but we can understand what he has said. You are turning God into a mustical force as well..

Wow 2500 times? Please don't use circular reasoning, it's quite insulting to do that in any kind of debate(even on the internet).

All the ( Wrong teachings ) of Islam have been pointed out in this thread, but the most important and unforgivable is that Jesus Christ is the son of God. We need to inform muslims not defend them.

A muslim could use the exact same argument about you. Are you even trying to use valid arguments or are you just playing with me?

 

[SB81848889]

WKK Dont mis-understand me, I may not be making myself clear, but religion no matter what form it takes on can and does lead people to rely on their religion for salvation and completely miss what God has done for them. The Jews missed it and Christianity as a whole has missed it. How many millions of Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Budists, Jews etc..... are trusting in their religion or sacrament or ritual for their salvation and not relying on Christs finished work given to them free and at the mercy of God.

I know there are many bad bible translations, and no translation is perfect, but if I had an original greek bible I wouldnt be able to understand it, I speak english so I need an english version, and there are several good english versions, But do your research. I like the KJV and the ESV. The NASB, NKJ and maybe the NIV is ok, the rest I would stay away from. However you will only find the translational problems with men and not in the word, just because you and I cannot agree on an interpretation of a passage of scripture doesnt mean that God was wrong. Either you or I or both of us are wrong, but God is the author of the bible and he is not the author of confussion. NOT ONE WORD WILL PASS AWAY. If you want to question Paul and the other inspired writters then whos being arrogant. I am just believing what they wrote. I dont add or take away, just believe.

Fine you have me with tangled words. Yes believers of islam are under the deception of false teachings = Heretics. Doesnt mean they cant repent and be far greater Christians then myself.

God has like I said given us all the revelation that he is going to in the bible, thats it. If you subsribe to another authority for revelation then you believe another gospel. Dont mis-understand me here, I know the Holy Spirit has a ministry with each believer, but thats not what were talking about, the bible is his final revelation to man untill his return.

Hmm circular reasoning you say, well if believing what God has said to be true then I am definatly quilty of it. If I didnt believe the Bible was from God infalible then I would slap it shut and give you guys a sincear appology and never insult another forum again. Why bother being a christian if you have no authority to go by. I simply believe what the Bible says thats all.

Well since you agree with me that Jesus is the son of God then we both agree muslims are wrong on that point.

 

[Densetzu]

God has like I said given us all the revelation that he is going to in the bible, thats it. If you subsribe to another authority for revelation then you believe another gospel. Dont mis-understand me here, I know the Holy Spirit has a ministry with each believer, but thats not what were talking about, the bible is his final revelation to man untill his return.

I would argue that Jesus is the final revelation of God; the New Testament is a collection of books and letters written by Jesus' early followers about the life and message of Jesus. They convey Jesus to us, but the New Testament is not in and of itself a direct revelation.

 

[SB81848889]

I would argue that Jesus is the final revelation of God; the New Testament is a collection of books and letters written by Jesus' early followers about the life and message of Jesus. They convey Jesus to us, but the New Testament is not in and of itself a direct revelation.

Well in a way were saying the same thing, what do you think the new testament is.

The old test is Christ

The new test is Jesus

The bible is Jesus is the Christ.

 

[SB81848889]

Also how else would any one of us know a single thing about Jesus without the new testament, and your claiming it to be made of men. You are relying on your savior from the words of men, Im sorry but I dont share your view at all.

 

[Lindqvist]

While I do agree that the bible is in many ways the only way in which we can get in contact with Jesus there a few things that are just wrong in your argument.

The bible is not infallible, it contradicts itself on several occasions.

If we believe that the bible was directly the word of god which I will for the sake of argument acknowledge, then comes the problem with:

1: What was put in the bible was decided by men during rome several years after the death of christ by men who had never met the Lord.
2: The Interpetation of the relationship between God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus was decided by the same men and then EXPLAINED to others. There might have been faults in their understanding but lets for the sake of argument say that they had divine guidance.
3: They had to convey this message to the masses. And as anyone who has ever tried to convey a message between several people knows. There are bound to be misunderstandings.
4: The Bible was then writen down. How much was lost due to human error?
5: The Bible was translated several times since then.
6: It's been almost 2000 years since then, with different translations occuring on a yearly basis if you take into account the whole world.
7: You as a human read and add your interpetation based on your experience and the teachings of your christian community.

All in all, there's alot of room for error. God might be infallable but he sure is easy to misinterpret imagine trying to explain nuclear physics to a child, fortunately Gods patience and forgiveness is alot larger than any humans.

 

[BLU]

I often wonder this.

Muslims believe that they worship the God of Abraham, the God spoken of in the Torah.

We know that as Christians, we worship the God of the bible.

Obviously the islamic faith is wrong, as they do not accept that Jesus is God, and are not saved. But are they worshiping the same God we are? Just in a distorted, incorrect and futile manner? Surely not.

I think that islam is an invention of satan, who has a keen interest in seeing it spread. The question is, is the 'God' that muslims claim to worship really satan?

All unsaved men in a sense worship Satan by falsely worshippng things such as the creature rather than the creator.

 

[SB81848889]

If we think the bible contradicts itself then we are the ones who cannot understand a particular part of the bible, we are confused not God or his word. Jesus is the word and your saying he's a contradiction. when there appears to be a contradiction in scripture its generally a paradox, its saying the same thing but from 2 different perspectives. Any bible scholar knows that the 1st rule in interpreting scripture is no passage can be interpreted by itself it needs to be viewed in the light of the entire word. So if there is a contradiction to you or me its our finite minds that are wrong not Gods word.

In answer to your points

1) The books of the new testement were read and passed around homes and churches long before catholics had there council. These books were accepted as inspired writtings by the first christians and delt with in that way. Church councils are not inspired and the only reason they felt it nessesary to make the cannon was to answer herecies of the time thats all. The church did not create the new testament.

2) regardless of wether men and there councils came to any conclusions or not on the nature of christ and the trinity doesnt mean we figured something out of our own thinking. The word of God still remained intact and said the same thing to them as it did when it was written. Like you said divine assistance. Besides all of the early church councils were not establishing new christian laws and doctrines, they were simply answering the herecies that crept up throughout time. And they used the bible to answer them, at least untill Rome became a powerful church.

3) Exactly, so that means there is something wrong with the message, I think not. You can have a song on the radio and 2 different people hear 2 different things. Whats different? Not the song it was a recording, but the 2 people have the mis-interpretation. Thats why we need the Holy Spirit to reveal the truths of Gods word.

4) Well again if you disagree with Paul and John on the completeness of scripture and inspiration as the word of God then thats a problem for me. I just disagree with you here. Also there is more preserved manuscripts of the new testament that completely agree then any other ancient document on earth.

5,6) Well how can we understand it if its not in english, thats a real problem I agree with you, I usually only concider the KJV as my translation of choice, simply because the authors of the KJV truly believed that the bible in its entirety was the word of God and they treated it that way. I dont think anyone can say that about most other translations. You as well seem to be fallen into the thinking that most bible translators are in that the bible is not the word of God. I think thats is a tragic shame. Satan has been attacking the bible since adam and eve, now his work is done in modern translations.

7) Exactly, I and you are the problem not the word of God. The bible is a closed book if the Spirit of God does not make it alive and real for your heart. That just seems to be the way God wrote it.

 

[jgrig2]

All humans are naturally idolators apart from the grace of God -CS Lewis paraphrase.

Remember all of us were children of satan (john 8before God regenerated us and granted us faith. Intelelctually we all worship satan any time we sin thus I don't find using language like ''Muslims are satan worshipers'' very useful in explaining the Gospel.