Are Roman Catholics Christians

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
God's Word is obviously not that straight forward. Your understanding is "but they must come to Him and seek forgiveness".

The bible says none seek Him, all have gone astray. So I take that to mean that none will come to him and seek forgiveness unless he draws them to Himself first. Other scriptures say we are dead in our trespasses and He quickens us.

So, yes people understand the scriptures in many different ways. That's why we have 35,000 Christian religions all claiming to be the one true one.
yet in all these 35000 churches, we have 3 basic gospels.

Most denominations differ in tradition, or how they do things, not so much in doctrinal truths.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
God's elect are anyone who chooses to believe, something anyone can freely choose to do.

John 3:
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
amen, many are called, few are chosen. God attempts to draw many people to himself. like he did Israel as he stated he like a m other hen tried todraw them to himself when he came, but like he said, "they were unwilling"
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, that's a hard one to deal with. On the one hand we have the Bible says the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world, then in other places it sounds like whosoever can freely choose.

Both can't be right, so one must choose a position so I choose the position of God is sovereign over all things including salvation. He has the right to give it to some and deny it to others.

I guess this question has been debated for centuries by highly learned Bible scholars and theologians, they still haven't come to a consensus so we just have to accept the fact that it will continue to divide the Church.
They are both right, God chose before the foundation of the world. to save whoever called onto his name, As he said himself in John 6, it was the will of the father that whoever sees and believes, will be given eternal life, and never be lost.

God will refuse to save no one who calls on his name in true saving faith.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Remember, people worship him, sound like religious figure, and head of the country, pope is jesuit, Jesuit is military for catholic

Read this link

http://www.thebibleistheotherside.org/newsitem24.htm


THE JESUITS

The Secret Army of the Papacy

by Shaun Willcock

He is the leader of the reformed roman empire (the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and sanctuary, which occurred in 70 AD) The antichrist is that prince.

People worship world leaders who give them peace and prosperity, they do not have to be religious leaders.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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It's going to be an unholy trinity. Three. A false prophet (yes, a religious man), will be one of the persons. But just as some think Trump will play a part, as many others thought Obama or Bush or the Clintons would!

The reason I think the RCC could play a role is because of the verse that talks of "Mother of all Harlots." The catholic church can sort of be seen as the mother of all denominations, so...

As for the other two, one is actually satan to my understanding of the verses. The other could be political. It does make sense with the verses. I guess I just don't see that political figure coming out of the U.S...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's going to be an unholy trinity. Three. A false prophet (yes, a religious man), will be one of the persons. But just as some think Trump will play a part, as many others thought Obama or Bush or the Clintons would!

The reason I think the RCC could play a role is because of the verse that talks of "Mother of all Harlots." The catholic church can sort of be seen as the mother of all denominations, so...

As for the other two, one is actually satan to my understanding of the verses. The other could be political. It does make sense with the verses. I guess I just don't see that political figure coming out of the U.S...
I agree, if it was from th us, scripture would not talk about him being from rome, the us is no where near rome, or even the territory held by rome, so no one wouod see a us leader as comming from rome to interpret him as being the prince who came from the people ho destroyed jerusalm in 70 Ad

Edit, also, the world hates the US, they will chear when the us is destroyd, no one is going to follow the us.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I agree, if it was from th us, scripture would not talk about him being from rome, the us is no where near rome, or even the territory held by rome, so no one wouod see a us leader as comming from rome to interpret him as being the prince who came from the people ho destroyed jerusalm in 70 Ad

Edit, also, the world hates the US, they will chear when the us is destroyd, no one is going to follow the us.
Yes the U.S. is hated, but that doesn't mean the political figure couldn't come from the U.S. A charismatic enough man could overcome that. I just think he may come instead from somewhere else. I don't know why I think it, but I do...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes the U.S. is hated, but that doesn't mean the political figure couldn't come from the U.S. A charismatic enough man could overcome that. I just think he may come instead from somewhere else. I don't know why I think it, but I do...
Maybe a former president who went to the UN, and now heads it may fit? Who knows lol

As i said before i doubt we eill know till it happens, but fun (can be if pride is set aside) to discuss and learn
 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
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amen, many are called, few are chosen. God attempts to draw many people to himself. like he did Israel as he stated he like a m other hen tried todraw them to himself when he came, but like he said, "they were unwilling"
Many Christians, my self included believe that God is sovereign over all things. We believe He causes everything that happens to happen, we even believe He is sovereign over who He chooses to save.

We don't believe in a God who "attempts" or "tries" to do anything, we believe in a God who does whatever He pleases and never fails to to whatever He pleases. We believe He chose to save a certain number of people before he created the world, I know that sounds incredible but God is beyond incredible. He is far bigger and greater than we give Him credit for.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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It's going to be an unholy trinity. Three. A false prophet (yes, a religious man), will be one of the persons. But just as some think Trump will play a part, as many others thought Obama or Bush or the Clintons would!

The reason I think the RCC could play a role is because of the verse that talks of "Mother of all Harlots." The catholic church can sort of be seen as the mother of all denominations, so...

As for the other two, one is actually satan to my understanding of the verses. The other could be political. It does make sense with the verses. I guess I just don't see that political figure coming out of the U.S...
AC is going to be Jewish. Israel will not have a spiritual leader who is not Jewish. Israel will not trust and enter into an accord if he is not of Jewish descent.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Many Christians, my self included believe that God is sovereign over all things. We believe He causes everything that happens to happen, we even believe He is sovereign over who He chooses to save.

We don't believe in a God who "attempts" or "tries" to do anything, we believe in a God who does whatever He pleases and never fails to to whatever He pleases. We believe He chose to save a certain number of people before he created the world, I know that sounds incredible but God is beyond incredible. He is far bigger and greater than we give Him credit for.
I believe in a great d who is soverign over all things,

I also believe in a God who is who he claims to be, a God of love, in order to love, you have to give free will, robots can not respond to you, and you can not love a robot,

Yet through this, God is omniscient, and inspite of mans free will, his will will still be accomplished.

If there is no free will, evil can not be explained away, but to determin, gods will was to creat evil and pain and suffering. That is not the god i know
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
AC is going to be Jewish. Israel will not have a spiritual leader who is not Jewish. Israel will not trust and enter into an accord if he is not of Jewish descent.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
AC is roman, how could he then be jewish? Am i. I misunderstanding?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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AC is roman, how could he then be jewish? Am i. I misunderstanding?
I do not see AC being Roman. I see Rome conquered by Islam. As children of Ishmael they may appear to be Jewish. Israel is not going to follow a Gentile.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The identity of antichrist are

1. When out from Christian but not, can be pope or other false Christian, but not Muslim or Hindu etc because Muslim not went out from us.

2. Will rule the world. Must be a man with big influence, like pope or Trump etc, talking about political leader, ruler of a country or kingdom

3. Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Being worship, must be religious figure

So we have religious leader and political leader

Pope is religious leader with billion members, and political leader, because vatican is a country
Went out from us.... does not mean from us as that literally seen . They could literally go out from us but that does not define the us in Christ. Some literally stay and have no relationship with Christ but more play church. Hoping attending confirms they have the Holy Spirit .

That's the error the apostles made at first when they were acting as another Christ (mediator) which describes the antichrists. Those who say other men must teach them because only they know the infallible truths, Like Jim Jones or any group that usurp the authority of the Holy spirit in who we must abide in as he not seen teaches us .

Luke 9 and Mark 9 are an excellent example of rightly dividing the us . Luke has a fuller teaching.

You could say it was a non object as that not seen lesson. Teaching the apostles how to hear God not seen through the parables. Hiding the spiritual understanding from the intellect of man or philosophies.

Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Luke 9:44-45


Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. Luke 9:46

At that point they forsake Jesus standing right in front of them and reasoned after the philosophies or wisdom of this world and not no by the faith alone as that which comes from hearing God . Literally playing "who is the greatest" get venerated the highest (a Pagan tradition ) Christ then showing them how childish they were

And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.Luke 9:47-48

The apostles still not understanding the parable the spiritual meaning hid , replied

And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.Luke 9:49


There the apostles thought that not literally being one of us made up the us in Christ And Christ continues to teach them the proper us is not in respect to the things seen the temporal but the things of faith as those of God make up the us in Christ .They were still hoping the kingdom of God came by observation like the Pharisees with Sadducees

And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.Luke 9:50

There Christ defines the us as if we were not really there... walking by faith the unseen, eternal and not by sight after the things of men seen .Again hiding the spiritual understanding .And they looked to the literal as that seen therefore not receiving Christ because of their personal prejudices hoping the flesh of a Jew could profit for something


And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? Luke 9:51-54



Three times denying the unseen us in Christ, with three signifying the end of the manner, Christ said to them.

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.Luke 9:55


The manner they were following after was that of natural unconverted man who does walk by sight as if the kingdom did come by observation .

2. Will rule the world. Must be a man with big influence, like pope or Trump etc, talking about political leader, ruler of a country or kingdom
The god of this world .

3. Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Being worship, must be religious figure.

The god of this world is very religious .


 

Danny1988

Active member
Jun 24, 2018
410
124
43
I believe in a great d who is soverign over all things,

I also believe in a God who is who he claims to be, a God of love, in order to love, you have to give free will, robots can not respond to you, and you can not love a robot,

Yet through this, God is omniscient, and inspite of mans free will, his will will still be accomplished.

If there is no free will, evil can not be explained away, but to determin, gods will was to creat evil and pain and suffering. That is not the god i know
I believe we are like robots in a way, because we are only what God made us to be. We can't change a single thing in this whole universe, we rely on Him for our next breath.

The love that's in us was put there by God Himself, we can't produce love because only God is love.

I believe every atom in the universe is exactly where God preordained it to be and He causes all things that happen to happen. If that wasn't the case then God wouldn't be all powerful, all mighty, all knowing and all the rest of His amazing qualities.

Our God is an infinitely wise God so He knows the whole of human history from it's beginning to the end, He preordained everything so nothing takes Him by surprise. Even the evil and suffering are part of His creation, He created Satan and Satan is doing exactly as God created him to do.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I called myself a heathen. Recalling my Christian experience is a whole other topic.
Experence is not the validator of spiritual truths. God's word as it is written alone is .Some went out because they were not of the unseen us .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I do not see AC being Roman. I see Rome conquered by Islam. As children of Ishmael they may appear to be Jewish. Israel is not going to follow a Gentile.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
thanks for the clarification.

Isreal does not follow the antichrist, If anything all he does is pass a peace agreement (covenant) with them, After 3.5 years where he desecrates the temple. They are told to flee. where God will protect them.

I see AC as the prince who is to come in Daniel 9, who comes from the people who destroyed the temple in ad 70. thats why I say he is from rome or europe or something resembling the iron beast, (he is called the beast of iron and clay)
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
It's going to be an unholy trinity. Three. A false prophet (yes, a religious man), will be one of the persons. But just as some think Trump will play a part, as many others thought Obama or Bush or the Clintons would!

The reason I think the RCC could play a role is because of the verse that talks of "Mother of all Harlots." The catholic church can sort of be seen as the mother of all denominations, so...

As for the other two, one is actually satan to my understanding of the verses. The other could be political. It does make sense with the verses. I guess I just don't see that political figure coming out of the U.S...
i see the petro dollar becomming the world standard and that would greatly effect the U.S. in territorial disputes over oil. we know that tillerson and the koch brothers would some of that.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
thanks for the clarification.

Isreal does not follow the antichrist, If anything all he does is pass a peace agreement (covenant) with them, After 3.5 years where he desecrates the temple. They are told to flee. where God will protect them.

I see AC as the prince who is to come in Daniel 9, who comes from the people who destroyed the temple in ad 70. thats why I say he is from rome or europe or something resembling the iron beast, (he is called the beast of iron and clay)
Well we shall just wait and see. We get ring side seats in heaven to behold God working at the end of the world. I hope we get free popcorn and pure water to drink.

For the cause of Christ
Roger