Are the Gospels written specifically to Jews only?

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Churinga

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Nov 12, 2018
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That was my whole point.

The Jews thought that God was going to set up His Kingdom on Earth in a physical way that their carnal minds could understand.

God DID NOT do that.

And now you are making the same mistake as the jew before you reading the same passages as they did and coming up with the same conclusions.
The establishment of the Kingdom was on the condition that the Jews recognized Jesus as the Messiah which they refused.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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That was my whole point.

The Jews thought that God was going to set up His Kingdom on Earth in a physical way that their carnal minds could understand.

God DID NOT do that.

And now you are making the same mistake as the jew before you reading the same passages as they did and coming up with the same conclusions.
I can see you believe in a strong form of sovereignty where man may not have free will. For me, I believe we have a legitimate choice. Adam could have chosen the correct tree, the Jews could have accepted Jesus in the gospels, as well as acts.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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I can see you believe in a strong form of sovereignty where man may not have free will. For me, I believe we have a legitimate choice. Adam could have chosen the correct tree, the Jews could have accepted Jesus in the gospels, as well as acts.
Yes. I think that is the primary difference in the way we view God.

I do believe in a strong form of Sovereignty. I believe that Gods Ways are Far Above our ways and Gods Understanding is Far Above our understanding. A lot farther above than those who think that men have an unrestricted free will in being able to choose to accept Jesus or eat from the right tree.

We could go around and around on this issue but I have a feeling neither one of us will budge. Maybe just say God Bless You and I understand your point of view but disagree with it.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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The establishment of the Kingdom was on the condition that the Jews recognized Jesus as the Messiah which they refused.
Some of them did, right?

So what happened? Not the right ones recognized Jesus as the Messiah? Not enough Jews recognized Jesus as the Messiah?

I think your main premise is incorrect but I don't really see a way of getting you to see it.
 

YourTruthGod

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Mar 9, 2019
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The audience of the Gospels was centered on the lost sheep of the house of Israel and the preaching of the Kingdom was the message.
Jesus came first for the lost sheep of Israel. They are the Jews who already belonged to God by faith. Jesus was going to make a new covenant based on faith; the old covenant was based on the purification works of the law and not based on faith.
When Jesus came, God cut off all the Jews who did not already belong to Him by faith, and God hardened those Jews so while Jesus walked the earth, the cut off Jews could not get saved yet. See, God bound those faithless Jews over to the same place as the disobedient Gentiles.
All the Jews who already belonged to God by faith, they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said he would not lose one that God gave him.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Jesus also said that when he is crucified, then all people could come to him to be saved.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Romans 2:9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

Acts 3:26 When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways."

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 18:6 But when they opposed and insulted him, he shook out his garments and told them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."

 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Yes. I think that is the primary difference in the way we view God.

I do believe in a strong form of Sovereignty. I believe that Gods Ways are Far Above our ways and Gods Understanding is Far Above our understanding. A lot farther above than those who think that men have an unrestricted free will in being able to choose to accept Jesus or eat from the right tree.

We could go around and around on this issue but I have a feeling neither one of us will budge. Maybe just say God Bless You and I understand your point of view but disagree with it.
Actually, people rarely change their minds whenever they encounter new info, so the objective of internet debate for me is not really to achieve that. I will be happy when I understood why people come up with the opinions that they hold, based on hidden assumptions that are not obvious at first glance.

From my experience debating with people who holds a strong view of Sovereignty, they also do not believe that divine healing can be claimed by the believer. Their view is more of "God can heal if he wants to, but he may choose not to, so you just have to accept his choice". Is that your perspective too?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Some of them did, right?

So what happened? Not the right ones recognized Jesus as the Messiah? Not enough Jews recognized Jesus as the Messiah?

I think your main premise is incorrect but I don't really see a way of getting you to see it.
Israel as a nation rejected their Messiah, even though we do have a minority who did. The latter are deemed as "Messianic Jews".

Specifically, the Sanhedrin (Acts 7) and the Diaspora (Acts 28) rejected Jesus, these 2 groups basically determines whether the majority of the Jews would believe in Jesus.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Actually, people rarely change their minds whenever they encounter new info, so the objective of internet debate for me is not really to achieve that. I will be happy when I understood why people come up with the opinions that they hold, based on hidden assumptions that are not obvious at first glance.

From my experience debating with people who holds a strong view of Sovereignty, they also do not believe that divine healing can be claimed by the believer. Their view is more of "God can heal if he wants to, but he may choose not to, so you just have to accept his choice". Is that your perspective too?
Yes. In a nutshell, that is pretty much what I believe as well.

God gives Gifts if it is His Will to give them but people can't just take them from Him because they want them or because they follow a certain formula.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Israel as a nation rejected their Messiah, even though we do have a minority who did. The latter are deemed as "Messianic Jews".

Specifically, the Sanhedrin (Acts 7) and the Diaspora (Acts 28) rejected Jesus, these 2 groups basically determines whether the majority of the Jews would believe in Jesus.
I don't suppose God could have taken the believing Jews and made them the Nation of Israel and conquered the Sanhedrin and Diaspora and Romans out of Jerusalem?
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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Yes. In a nutshell, that is pretty much what I believe as well.

God gives Gifts if it is His Will to give them but people can't just take them from Him because they want them or because they follow a certain formula.
Thanks, it is indeed very interesting that our interpretation of the Bible often differs because of all these hidden assumptions that are unknown at first view.

One final question to seek your opinion, when you encounter a passage like the following, how do you reconcile it to that view of sovereignty? Deuteronomy 30

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

If you hold on to the strong view, do you think God was joking when he said to us that we have a choice when it comes to life and death?
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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I don't suppose God could have taken the believing Jews and made them the Nation of Israel and conquered the Sanhedrin and Diaspora and Romans out of Jerusalem?
That is what I believe will happen during the rapture of the Church. Those Messianic Jews will follow us, the Gentile Church into heaven, to be protected from the Tribulation.

The remaining Jews, together with the unbelieving Gentiles will have to face the Antichrist. Jesus will finally reveal himself to those Jews though, in a manner similar to the story of Joseph in Genesis.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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That is what I believe will happen during the rapture of the Church. Those Messianic Jews will follow us, the Gentile Church into heaven, to be protected from the Tribulation.

The remaining Jews, together with the unbelieving Gentiles will have to face the Antichrist. Jesus will finally reveal himself to those Jews though, in a manner similar to the story of Joseph in Genesis.
Pretty much so except according to mat 25 only half the church is raptured.
The one taken,one left of mat 24 is also the rapture.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Thanks, it is indeed very interesting that our interpretation of the Bible often differs because of all these hidden assumptions that are unknown at first view.

One final question to seek your opinion, when you encounter a passage like the following, how do you reconcile it to that view of sovereignty? Deuteronomy 30

19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

If you hold on to the strong view, do you think God was joking when he said to us that we have a choice when it comes to life and death?
God didn't say that anyone had a choice. He said to choose.

Once you find out you are not able to just choose Life, but that it is only by the Gift of God, then you only have one choice and that is to Come to Christ and ask for His Gift.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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That is what I believe will happen during the rapture of the Church. Those Messianic Jews will follow us, the Gentile Church into heaven, to be protected from the Tribulation.

The remaining Jews, together with the unbelieving Gentiles will have to face the Antichrist. Jesus will finally reveal himself to those Jews though, in a manner similar to the story of Joseph in Genesis.
What about the 2000+ yrs of unbelieving Jews?

You just say don't worry, Christ will come back, probably not for you but maybe for your grand-kids?

Wouldn't it be better to tell them that the Lord Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The Life and there is No Way to the Father but by Him?

Instead of relying on some fantasy story misinterpreted by a carnal view of a pre-trib rapture?
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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Pretty much so except according to mat 25 only half the church is raptured.
The one taken,one left of mat 24 is also the rapture.
Different people will interpret this parable differently. One popular interpretation is of course like what you are saying here.

Another interpretation is that the 10 virgins refer to the Jews only, and only half of them end up believing in Jesus before the rapture. The other half will have to face the Tribulation. I prefer this interpretation since this particular parable is found only in Matthew, which is written specifically to the Jews.

It also align well with Paul who mentioned that the entire Gentile Church will be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The idea that only half the church will be raptured will go against OSAS, which I believe in.
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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God didn't say that anyone had a choice. He said to choose.

Once you find out you are not able to just choose Life, but that it is only by the Gift of God, then you only have one choice and that is to Come to Christ and ask for His Gift.
Hmm, from what you are saying here, you are Calvinistic in your thinking too? You believe in the concept of total depravity?
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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What about the 2000+ yrs of unbelieving Jews?

You just say don't worry, Christ will come back, probably not for you but maybe for your grand-kids?

Wouldn't it be better to tell them that the Lord Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth and The Life and there is No Way to the Father but by Him?

Instead of relying on some fantasy story misinterpreted by a carnal view of a pre-trib rapture?
If you are referring to the Jews here, yes of course, they are hearing every day that Jesus is their promised Messiah. As time goes by, I believe more and more of them are secretly accepting that truth, like Nicodemus did.

But the conclusion by Paul in Romans 11:25 onward will happen for the remaining unbelieving Jews. As for those unbelieving Jews who have passed away, personally I am not too sure what will happen to them during the 2nd coming.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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Hmm, from what you are saying here, you are Calvinistic in your thinking too? You believe in the concept of total depravity?
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Isn't that what Christ is saying here? You have no ability in yourself to choose Life. Without Christ you are dead in the water.

If by total depravity you mean total inability to be sinless before God by your own choice and will then yes I believe in total depravity.
 

Grandpa

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Jun 24, 2011
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If you are referring to the Jews here, yes of course, they are hearing every day that Jesus is their promised Messiah. As time goes by, I believe more and more of them are secretly accepting that truth, like Nicodemus did.

But the conclusion by Paul in Romans 11:25 onward will happen for the remaining unbelieving Jews. As for those unbelieving Jews who have passed away, personally I am not too sure what will happen to them during the 2nd coming.
IF you are going to give the jews a pass its not really logical to not give everyone a pass.

Keeping Romans 9:6-8 in mind...
 

Guojing

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Jan 12, 2019
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IF you are going to give the jews a pass its not really logical to not give everyone a pass.

Keeping Romans 9:6-8 in mind...
Well, who am I to really question how God want to handle the Jews. From what I interpret, the Old Testament, as well as the 4 Gospels, are almost exclusively about Jews. God chose Abraham and promised to bless all his descendants.

We Gentiles are excluded from that promise. But only because the Jews rejected the Gospel of the Kingdom, then the dispensation of Grace began, which allow us Gentiles to also insert ourselves into the same covenant thru Jesus (Romans 9-11).

For me, I just tell myself, "Whopee and quickly accept his free gift". If God wants to give unbelieving Jews a pass, but not the unbelieving Gentiles, who am I to say he is being unfair? :)