I think if it was obvious there would be a lot more agreement amongst believers. We can't agree what parts of revelation are figurative and which are literal. All I know is there is going to be worldwide catastrophes, economic collapses and a huge falling away of Christianity even before the Man of Lawlessness is revealed. Many of us will die in the "horsemen of the apocalypse" phase. I'd say there will be years of suffering before Jesus returns, maybe decades. Just a guess, we are at the "beginning of sorrows" Jesus foretold in Matt 24. The worst is yet to come, or.... we will all be raptured right now! (pause). I guess not. Yeah, you better get ready for disaster.
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O
if we have a good grasp of the current world events, and especially
of the 'speed' in which things are happening, the direction towards
Biblical fulfillment is quite astounding,
the wheels of prophecy are turning faster, and faster and faster!
therefore, make all haste to set your own Spiritual/House in order.
'Hungry' has hit the nail on the head.
we ourselves know that we are indeed living in the 'last-times' and have been
preparing for this event for many years.
the 'Four Horseman', it's like the pinnical of the 'beginning of sorrows'.
for instance, the collapse of the US economy, as well as other countries chaotic conditions,
etc.....
it is surely manifested to anybody that has any kind of insight, that the camel's back is getting
ready to be broken.
our desire is to take the whole armour of Faith, and the Helmet of Salvation, and the Sword of the Spirit,
and be mighty warriors for our Lord and Saviour, and to stand-up against the wicked principalities and powers
that are at this very moment preparing to rise up against all that is righteous and good.
of the 'speed' in which things are happening, the direction towards
Biblical fulfillment is quite astounding,
the wheels of prophecy are turning faster, and faster and faster!
therefore, make all haste to set your own Spiritual/House in order.
'Hungry' has hit the nail on the head.
we ourselves know that we are indeed living in the 'last-times' and have been
preparing for this event for many years.
the 'Four Horseman', it's like the pinnical of the 'beginning of sorrows'.
for instance, the collapse of the US economy, as well as other countries chaotic conditions,
etc.....
it is surely manifested to anybody that has any kind of insight, that the camel's back is getting
ready to be broken.
our desire is to take the whole armour of Faith, and the Helmet of Salvation, and the Sword of the Spirit,
and be mighty warriors for our Lord and Saviour, and to stand-up against the wicked principalities and powers
that are at this very moment preparing to rise up against all that is righteous and good.
O
@All my Brothers and Sisters in Christ Jesus, super discussion, there are allot of little pieces of the puzzle that has been stated here in this thread. The unfolding of the “end times” prophetic scenario before our eyes should prompt us to keep our Bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other as we piece the prophetic puzzle together.
Matthew 24:30-36 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory…Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Perhaps the most intriguing and controversial prophetic passage in the Bible is contained in the Olivette Discourse. This dynamic “end times” message by Jesus, contained in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21, describes major events that will impact the Jewish people just before the Lord returns to set up his kingdom.
This remarkable prophecy, given by Jesus on Mount Olivette after leaving the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, was his response to three questions from His disciples.
1. “When shall these things be
2. “And what shall be the sign of thy coming”
3. “and [what shall be the sign] of the end of the world (age)?”
His answer to those questions alludes to the generation that will be living on the earth when Christ returns. Some believe that the generation Jesus was talking about in the Olivette Discourse was the generation that passed away in 70 A.D. But that does not fit within the context of a literal return of Christ back to earth, as described in the Scriptures preceding and following the parable of the fig tree. When the many signals Christ gave for the Tribulation in his Olivette discourse begin to occur at the same time, with greater frequency and intensity, the end-time generation can know Jesus’ coming is near.
One might raise several questions about the unique generation described by Jesus, and other generations that are described in the Bible.
According to The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, a “generation” can be defined in several ways, including:
The generation described in Jeremiah 7:29,30 seems to best fit the generation described in the parable of the fig tree that will be present when Christ returns: “Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the Lord hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.” When does a generation begin?
The word “seed” in the Old Testament was used to describe the lineage of offspring before and after conception. God’s promises to Abraham and his descendants are given in the book of Genesis: “And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee…And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations” (Genesis 17: 6-9).
Offspring in the Bible were sometimes referred to as “seed” and other times associated with “generations,” as shown in the book of Psalms: “A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation” (Psalm 22:30).
The prophet Jeremiah’s generation and ministry began before he was born but was not manifested until after his birth. About this, the Scripture says: “Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou comes forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations” (Jeremiah 1:4,5).
A generation ends at the death of an individual or at the death of those individuals who are living at about the same time. For example, the death of King David is described in Acts 13:36: “for David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers and saw corruption…”
The men who took over after the death of Joshua represented a new generation that was displeasing to God. God’s Word says: “And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died, being an hundred and ten years old...and also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the Lord, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.” Joshua’s generation ended when he and those who were about his age died. An abundance of evidence in the Scriptures points to physical life beginning at conception and ending at death.
One of the most perplexing and sought-after figures among students of Bible prophecy is the length of a generation. There is much disagreement among both secular and religious writers concerning the length of a generation. Is the length of a generation forty years, as believed by many? Israel as Fig Tree
When Israel became a nation in 1948, some believed that Israel’s birth date marked the beginning of the generation that would see all the events leading up to the second coming of Christ. This theory was based upon the generation alluded to in the parable of the fig tree, in which the fig tree was symbolic of the nation Israel. “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is” (Mark 13: 28-33).
Many people believe that the birth of Israel in 1948 marked the beginning of the generation that would be alive at Christ’s return.
In 1988, when forty years had passed without fulfillment of any of the events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ, the forty-year generation theory fell into disrepute. Either 1948 had not been the starting date for the generation described in the fig tree parable, or a generation must be longer than 40 years.
Additional arguments put forth claimed that 1967, the year Jerusalem was captured by Israel, or some other future date could be the birth of the generation that would see the return of Christ. Some proponents of the “end times” generation theory questioned whether forty years was actually the length of a generation today. Is there any evidence to suggest that the length of a generation is longer than forty years? Just how long is a generation today? Is there an answer to the generation question?
Matthew 24:30-36 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory…Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Perhaps the most intriguing and controversial prophetic passage in the Bible is contained in the Olivette Discourse. This dynamic “end times” message by Jesus, contained in Matthew 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21, describes major events that will impact the Jewish people just before the Lord returns to set up his kingdom.
This remarkable prophecy, given by Jesus on Mount Olivette after leaving the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, was his response to three questions from His disciples.
1. “When shall these things be
2. “And what shall be the sign of thy coming”
3. “and [what shall be the sign] of the end of the world (age)?”
His answer to those questions alludes to the generation that will be living on the earth when Christ returns. Some believe that the generation Jesus was talking about in the Olivette Discourse was the generation that passed away in 70 A.D. But that does not fit within the context of a literal return of Christ back to earth, as described in the Scriptures preceding and following the parable of the fig tree. When the many signals Christ gave for the Tribulation in his Olivette discourse begin to occur at the same time, with greater frequency and intensity, the end-time generation can know Jesus’ coming is near.
One might raise several questions about the unique generation described by Jesus, and other generations that are described in the Bible.
- What is a generation?
- When does a generation begin?
- When does a generation end?
- How long is a generation?
- And, which generation was Christ talking about?
According to The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, a “generation” can be defined in several ways, including:
- the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time; the average number of years between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring; and
- a group of individuals who are roughly the same age and who have similar ideas and attitudes
The generation described in Jeremiah 7:29,30 seems to best fit the generation described in the parable of the fig tree that will be present when Christ returns: “Cut off thine hair, O Jerusalem, and cast it away, and take up a lamentation on high places; for the Lord hath rejected and forsaken the generation of his wrath.” When does a generation begin?
The word “seed” in the Old Testament was used to describe the lineage of offspring before and after conception. God’s promises to Abraham and his descendants are given in the book of Genesis: “And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee…And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations” (Genesis 17: 6-9).
Offspring in the Bible were sometimes referred to as “seed” and other times associated with “generations,” as shown in the book of Psalms: “A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation” (Psalm 22:30).
The prophet Jeremiah’s generation and ministry began before he was born but was not manifested until after his birth. About this, the Scripture says: “Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou comes forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations” (Jeremiah 1:4,5).
A generation ends at the death of an individual or at the death of those individuals who are living at about the same time. For example, the death of King David is described in Acts 13:36: “for David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers and saw corruption…”
The men who took over after the death of Joshua represented a new generation that was displeasing to God. God’s Word says: “And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the Lord, died, being an hundred and ten years old...and also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the Lord, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel.” Joshua’s generation ended when he and those who were about his age died. An abundance of evidence in the Scriptures points to physical life beginning at conception and ending at death.
One of the most perplexing and sought-after figures among students of Bible prophecy is the length of a generation. There is much disagreement among both secular and religious writers concerning the length of a generation. Is the length of a generation forty years, as believed by many? Israel as Fig Tree
When Israel became a nation in 1948, some believed that Israel’s birth date marked the beginning of the generation that would see all the events leading up to the second coming of Christ. This theory was based upon the generation alluded to in the parable of the fig tree, in which the fig tree was symbolic of the nation Israel. “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is” (Mark 13: 28-33).
Many people believe that the birth of Israel in 1948 marked the beginning of the generation that would be alive at Christ’s return.
In 1988, when forty years had passed without fulfillment of any of the events surrounding the Second Coming of Christ, the forty-year generation theory fell into disrepute. Either 1948 had not been the starting date for the generation described in the fig tree parable, or a generation must be longer than 40 years.
Additional arguments put forth claimed that 1967, the year Jerusalem was captured by Israel, or some other future date could be the birth of the generation that would see the return of Christ. Some proponents of the “end times” generation theory questioned whether forty years was actually the length of a generation today. Is there any evidence to suggest that the length of a generation is longer than forty years? Just how long is a generation today? Is there an answer to the generation question?
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isaiah 11 has nothing to do with 1948, if that's your assertion. isaiah 11 was fulfilled at the first coming.
read the following carefully. the whole chapter. notice how many things paul says were fulfilled by and in Christ. and he does so by citing the promises. God set his hand the second time and recovered the remnant of his people. honestly, if he didn't, i do not know how people think they themselves have any salvation (since the gospel went first to the jew)!
Romans 15
15 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
read the following carefully. the whole chapter. notice how many things paul says were fulfilled by and in Christ. and he does so by citing the promises. God set his hand the second time and recovered the remnant of his people. honestly, if he didn't, i do not know how people think they themselves have any salvation (since the gospel went first to the jew)!
Romans 15
15 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
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Really?
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Animal husbandry is not your strong suit, is it?
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Animal husbandry is not your strong suit, is it?
biblical allegory and illustration not yours either.
did you have a problem with Paul the apostle quoting from the OT saying Jesus came as a minister to the circumcision to fulfill the promises to the patriarchs?
he quoted the PROMISES specifically.
try this again. don't skip over Paul.
but i get you can't grasp any of it.
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
sound familiar?
did you have a problem with Paul the apostle quoting from the OT saying Jesus came as a minister to the circumcision to fulfill the promises to the patriarchs?
he quoted the PROMISES specifically.
try this again. don't skip over Paul.
but i get you can't grasp any of it.
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
sound familiar?
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O
OK, brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, the next interesting thoughts. Christ's Predictions, or the evidence from the Simple Words of Jesus, when Christ began to teach his disciples about the end of the age and his return, he did so in a series of parables or symbolic stories. Several of these from the Gospel of Matthew can be seen to directly relate to some of the main characteristics of the rapture. It is from Christ’s predictions that we can begin to see how clear the characteristics and timing of the rapture are revealed in the Bible.
The Tares and the Wheat: One of the most well-known of these parables is the story of the tares and wheat. Many people are familiar with this lesson, but they probably don’t realize that it establishes a very important point with regard to the gathering together of believers at the end.
As the story begins, Jesus describes how a man starts to plant some good seed in his field. After he was done planting, however, his enemy comes and introduces bad seed into the soil, too. Once all the seeds begin to grow, it becomes apparent to the people that there was something starting to contaminate the purity of the crop so they asked the owner if they should go out and uproot the weeds. But the owner replies, “Nay; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them. “Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, gather together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” Matt. 13-28-29
Virtually all of the Lord’s parables either symbolically relate to some aspect of Christian living or teach his followers a prophetic lesson of the things to come. This parable actually has part of both types within it. Jesus went on to explain in the same chapter that the tares and the wheat represent not merely crops, but types of people who will make up his church. He told his disciples that despite his best efforts to establish a pure congregation of followers, there would eventually creep into it a number of nonbelievers. These evil “tares”, according to the Lord’s explanation, would turn out to be planted by Satan himself. He also says, though, that both the tares and the wheat should be allowed to remain present in the church until the end of the age when he will then send forth his “reapers” to separate the true believers from the evil imposters. It is at this point that the parable describes an aspect of the rapture that is very important for our understanding. This is how Jesus explained it:
“…the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels.“
As, therefore, the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be in the end of this age.
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them who do iniquity,
“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
“Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
Matt. 13-39-43
The symbolism relating to the “harvest” of the earth is something that is used again and again in the prophecies concerning the rapture. Just as a farmer would separate the good crops from the chaff (weeds) at the time of harvest, so the Lord says he will separate the people of the world at the end. Actually, Christ himself is not the one who will do the separating and gathering, but his angels are prophesied to do the work for him.
Notice that the affect of this harvest on the lives of the people being gathered is much greater than the rather limited descriptions of the rapture given in the beginning of this section. Instead of just affecting believers, the Lord predicts that the event will also have immediate and tremendous ramifications for nonbelievers. He says that even the people who are evil (“them who do iniquity”) will be gathered as well, but instead of experiencing the blessings of God as his followers will enjoy, they will be bundled and burned in a furnace of fire. Obviously, the event that we have come to know as the rapture has two very different sides to it: one results in eternal life and the other results in the fires of hell.
In a similar manner, Jesus goes on to describe another parable in the same chapter of Matthew which also talks about the harvest at the end. He says in this case that the kingdom of heaven is like a huge net that fishermen use to catch fish. After the net is dragged through the sea and becomes full, it is brought to shore where the good fish are separated out and kept, and the bad fish are thrown away. Christ then continues on to say,
“…So shall it be at the end of the age; the angels shall come forth, and separate the wicked from among the righteous,
“And shall cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Matt. 13-49-50
It is clear from these two parables that whatever we have come to believe concerning the rapture, it must at least include the following initial characteristics:
1. It will occur at the end of the age.
2. The ones who will accomplish the gathering are angels directed by Christ.
3. The event will separate the wicked from the righteous where the wicked will be punished and the followers of Jesus blessed.
The Tares and the Wheat: One of the most well-known of these parables is the story of the tares and wheat. Many people are familiar with this lesson, but they probably don’t realize that it establishes a very important point with regard to the gathering together of believers at the end.
As the story begins, Jesus describes how a man starts to plant some good seed in his field. After he was done planting, however, his enemy comes and introduces bad seed into the soil, too. Once all the seeds begin to grow, it becomes apparent to the people that there was something starting to contaminate the purity of the crop so they asked the owner if they should go out and uproot the weeds. But the owner replies, “Nay; lest while you gather up the tares, you root up also the wheat with them. “Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, gather together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” Matt. 13-28-29
Virtually all of the Lord’s parables either symbolically relate to some aspect of Christian living or teach his followers a prophetic lesson of the things to come. This parable actually has part of both types within it. Jesus went on to explain in the same chapter that the tares and the wheat represent not merely crops, but types of people who will make up his church. He told his disciples that despite his best efforts to establish a pure congregation of followers, there would eventually creep into it a number of nonbelievers. These evil “tares”, according to the Lord’s explanation, would turn out to be planted by Satan himself. He also says, though, that both the tares and the wheat should be allowed to remain present in the church until the end of the age when he will then send forth his “reapers” to separate the true believers from the evil imposters. It is at this point that the parable describes an aspect of the rapture that is very important for our understanding. This is how Jesus explained it:
“…the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels.“
As, therefore, the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be in the end of this age.
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them who do iniquity,
“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
“Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
Matt. 13-39-43
The symbolism relating to the “harvest” of the earth is something that is used again and again in the prophecies concerning the rapture. Just as a farmer would separate the good crops from the chaff (weeds) at the time of harvest, so the Lord says he will separate the people of the world at the end. Actually, Christ himself is not the one who will do the separating and gathering, but his angels are prophesied to do the work for him.
Notice that the affect of this harvest on the lives of the people being gathered is much greater than the rather limited descriptions of the rapture given in the beginning of this section. Instead of just affecting believers, the Lord predicts that the event will also have immediate and tremendous ramifications for nonbelievers. He says that even the people who are evil (“them who do iniquity”) will be gathered as well, but instead of experiencing the blessings of God as his followers will enjoy, they will be bundled and burned in a furnace of fire. Obviously, the event that we have come to know as the rapture has two very different sides to it: one results in eternal life and the other results in the fires of hell.
In a similar manner, Jesus goes on to describe another parable in the same chapter of Matthew which also talks about the harvest at the end. He says in this case that the kingdom of heaven is like a huge net that fishermen use to catch fish. After the net is dragged through the sea and becomes full, it is brought to shore where the good fish are separated out and kept, and the bad fish are thrown away. Christ then continues on to say,
“…So shall it be at the end of the age; the angels shall come forth, and separate the wicked from among the righteous,
“And shall cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
Matt. 13-49-50
It is clear from these two parables that whatever we have come to believe concerning the rapture, it must at least include the following initial characteristics:
1. It will occur at the end of the age.
2. The ones who will accomplish the gathering are angels directed by Christ.
3. The event will separate the wicked from the righteous where the wicked will be punished and the followers of Jesus blessed.
O
OK, it looks as if there might just be a misunderstanding of what was said, who said it, where was it said, who was being talked to, or to who was it pointed, people everybody has touched the truth, be blessed and continue to search God's word
And it shall come to pass in that day,.... Here begins a prophecy relating to the people of Israel, and concerns things that should befall them after the destruction of the Babylonish monarchy, which after Nebuchadnezzar did not last long; there were but two kings after him mentioned in Scripture, Evilmerodach, and Belshazzar; so that its tall trees, its kings, were very few, so few that a child might count them; and what is after said is for the comfort of that people, and seems to refer to the times of the Gospel, as appears by some words in the context cited by the Apostle Paul:
that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob; who should return from the Babylonish captivity, and be settled in their own land:
shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; either on the kings of Egypt, who were originally their oppressors, and in whom they had been so foolish as to put their trust and confidence, they being but a broken staff and reed, Isaiah 30:2 or on the king of Assyria, in the time of Ahaz, who made him pay tribute, and afterwards fought against him:
but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth; that is, upon Christ, the Lord of all, and King of saints; the Lord their righteousness, and from whom they have their holiness: to stay or lean on him is expressive of faith in him, of reliance and dependence on him, and trust in him; which is done in sincerity and uprightness of soul, unfeigned and without dissimulation; not in profession only, but in reality, and as nakedly revealed in the Gospel, without type and figure; for this respects Gospel times, in which the shadows of the law are gone, and Christ, as the object of faith, appears unveiled, being come a High Priest of good things to come. The Targum is they
"shall no more lean on the people whom they served; but they shall lean upon the Word of the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth;''
that is, on the essential Word, the Messiah: this was the case of a few of them, a remnant according to the election of grace, as the following words show.
20-22. The effect on the "remnant" (contrasted with the Assyrian remnant, Isa 10:19); namely, those who shall be left after the invasion of Sennacherib, will be a return from dependence on external idolatrous nations, as Assyria and Egypt (2 Ki 18:21; 16:7-9), to the God of the theocracy; fulfilled in part in the pious Hezekiah's days; but from the future aspect under which Paul, in Ro 9:27, 28 (compare "short work" with "whole work," Isa 10:12, here), regards the whole prophecy, the "remnant," "who stay upon the Lord," probably will receive their fullest realization in the portion of Jews left after that Antichrist shall have been overthrown, who shall "return" unto the Lord (Isa 6:13; 7:3; Zec 12:9, 10; 14:2, 3; Zep 3:12).
And it shall come to pass in that day,.... Here begins a prophecy relating to the people of Israel, and concerns things that should befall them after the destruction of the Babylonish monarchy, which after Nebuchadnezzar did not last long; there were but two kings after him mentioned in Scripture, Evilmerodach, and Belshazzar; so that its tall trees, its kings, were very few, so few that a child might count them; and what is after said is for the comfort of that people, and seems to refer to the times of the Gospel, as appears by some words in the context cited by the Apostle Paul:
that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob; who should return from the Babylonish captivity, and be settled in their own land:
shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; either on the kings of Egypt, who were originally their oppressors, and in whom they had been so foolish as to put their trust and confidence, they being but a broken staff and reed, Isaiah 30:2 or on the king of Assyria, in the time of Ahaz, who made him pay tribute, and afterwards fought against him:
but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth; that is, upon Christ, the Lord of all, and King of saints; the Lord their righteousness, and from whom they have their holiness: to stay or lean on him is expressive of faith in him, of reliance and dependence on him, and trust in him; which is done in sincerity and uprightness of soul, unfeigned and without dissimulation; not in profession only, but in reality, and as nakedly revealed in the Gospel, without type and figure; for this respects Gospel times, in which the shadows of the law are gone, and Christ, as the object of faith, appears unveiled, being come a High Priest of good things to come. The Targum is they
"shall no more lean on the people whom they served; but they shall lean upon the Word of the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth;''
that is, on the essential Word, the Messiah: this was the case of a few of them, a remnant according to the election of grace, as the following words show.
20-22. The effect on the "remnant" (contrasted with the Assyrian remnant, Isa 10:19); namely, those who shall be left after the invasion of Sennacherib, will be a return from dependence on external idolatrous nations, as Assyria and Egypt (2 Ki 18:21; 16:7-9), to the God of the theocracy; fulfilled in part in the pious Hezekiah's days; but from the future aspect under which Paul, in Ro 9:27, 28 (compare "short work" with "whole work," Isa 10:12, here), regards the whole prophecy, the "remnant," "who stay upon the Lord," probably will receive their fullest realization in the portion of Jews left after that Antichrist shall have been overthrown, who shall "return" unto the Lord (Isa 6:13; 7:3; Zec 12:9, 10; 14:2, 3; Zep 3:12).
Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Gospel shall be preached in all the world doesn't mean shall be accepted.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Verse 12 prove that though Gospel shall preach but many shall refuse.
Base on the fact that when a person accept gospel will produce Love.
Look like the gospel is being preach to all the world know. So we are very close.
O
Thanks everybody, great answers, although many out of sequence with events stated in Gods Word. Although there is in some parts of the Revelation no real time table that can be 100% nailed down, but, there is also a clear cut case for some events that can be nailed down because that are named in order.
Most will argue about the real time of the rapture as we call it, the catching up of the blood bought, but again there are indications, not real facts but hints that this or that might happen here or there at this time or that time, who are we to know Gods Mind? But if we look at the first 3 chapters of the Revelation we come to the conclusion that they are to the Churches, or better yet to the 7 eras of the Church through time, which would indicate that the Church of this era would be the Church of Laodicea, we have left our first love (not all churches, but the general description), but we are not on fire for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we have allowed the Church to be corrupted with evil and ungodly practices, yes we have, but that is all together another topic. But as I was stating is this, if we look at the beginning of the 4 chapter of this Revelation we take our eyes from the church and find ourselves looking into the Throne Room of the Lord God Almighty, amazing description from John with only the vocabulary from those times, to paint the picture that is presented there, OK, we then in the 6th chapter see the seals broken and learn the deep, meaning of these acts leading up to the opening of the seals and the horror of these seals, OK because our attention goes for the Churches to heaven most think this is the point in time that the rapture would or could take place, because the entire rest of the Revelation is a show of the things that will happen hereafter.
Everybody on the same page with me? We the blood bought, are in heaven, the seals and or the 7 years of Jacob start. All though the antichrist will need a little time to setup his new world order (we have heard that term before), things will have to be done because of the fantastic number of people that just disappeared (the rapture) it will cripple all government, military, and religious organizations world wide. And one important aspect of this time span will be the rebuilding of the 3rd Temple, there is no argument about happening, because the Jews will take up the blood offerings out of the book of Leviticus and the rest of the books of Moses. Before the Jews can rebuild the Temple there will be certain things that will have to happen or take place, the Mosque of Omar has to be removed, and there will be peace treaty signed between Israel and her neighbors, this will probably will start the beginning of the 7 years time span, and if we follow the seals, the trumpets, and the bowl judgments follow.
So things as the 200,000 strong Army of horsemen released by the sixth Angel that happens in the Trumpet judgments, so this is where this is found. Read the Revelation and get an idea of the judgments that will come, I don't think that we the blood bought will have to live through these judgments because of the mass number of those that will die and not live through these judgments, massive numbers of those killed, alone I the seals judgments they talk of a quarter of the entire population will die, what is a quarter of 7 billion? The numbers are staggering, think about it, pray about it, pray for those that don't believe Christ paid the full price and defeated death for them and us and I. to His honor and glory!
Most will argue about the real time of the rapture as we call it, the catching up of the blood bought, but again there are indications, not real facts but hints that this or that might happen here or there at this time or that time, who are we to know Gods Mind? But if we look at the first 3 chapters of the Revelation we come to the conclusion that they are to the Churches, or better yet to the 7 eras of the Church through time, which would indicate that the Church of this era would be the Church of Laodicea, we have left our first love (not all churches, but the general description), but we are not on fire for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we have allowed the Church to be corrupted with evil and ungodly practices, yes we have, but that is all together another topic. But as I was stating is this, if we look at the beginning of the 4 chapter of this Revelation we take our eyes from the church and find ourselves looking into the Throne Room of the Lord God Almighty, amazing description from John with only the vocabulary from those times, to paint the picture that is presented there, OK, we then in the 6th chapter see the seals broken and learn the deep, meaning of these acts leading up to the opening of the seals and the horror of these seals, OK because our attention goes for the Churches to heaven most think this is the point in time that the rapture would or could take place, because the entire rest of the Revelation is a show of the things that will happen hereafter.
Everybody on the same page with me? We the blood bought, are in heaven, the seals and or the 7 years of Jacob start. All though the antichrist will need a little time to setup his new world order (we have heard that term before), things will have to be done because of the fantastic number of people that just disappeared (the rapture) it will cripple all government, military, and religious organizations world wide. And one important aspect of this time span will be the rebuilding of the 3rd Temple, there is no argument about happening, because the Jews will take up the blood offerings out of the book of Leviticus and the rest of the books of Moses. Before the Jews can rebuild the Temple there will be certain things that will have to happen or take place, the Mosque of Omar has to be removed, and there will be peace treaty signed between Israel and her neighbors, this will probably will start the beginning of the 7 years time span, and if we follow the seals, the trumpets, and the bowl judgments follow.
So things as the 200,000 strong Army of horsemen released by the sixth Angel that happens in the Trumpet judgments, so this is where this is found. Read the Revelation and get an idea of the judgments that will come, I don't think that we the blood bought will have to live through these judgments because of the mass number of those that will die and not live through these judgments, massive numbers of those killed, alone I the seals judgments they talk of a quarter of the entire population will die, what is a quarter of 7 billion? The numbers are staggering, think about it, pray about it, pray for those that don't believe Christ paid the full price and defeated death for them and us and I. to His honor and glory!
i think the key to understanding the book of Revelation is found at the opening
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
shortly come to pass... john talking about things happening back then... and shortly after that... he's using a code so that the book can be freely circulated around the roman empire, even though he's being critical of rome... that's the understanding i prefer... i know lots of people like to see it as a prediction of future events... if you like that approach, go for it... as long as it leads you to Jesus!
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;
shortly come to pass... john talking about things happening back then... and shortly after that... he's using a code so that the book can be freely circulated around the roman empire, even though he's being critical of rome... that's the understanding i prefer... i know lots of people like to see it as a prediction of future events... if you like that approach, go for it... as long as it leads you to Jesus!
I would disagree with the Code Hypothesis. Clearly from the first book of Revelation we know that John is having a vision of the end of times. I think John did faithfully as he was commanded and wrote down what he was shown.
EDIT: Plus you must keep in mind John was persecuted for openly speaking of Jesus, which is how he got exiled in the first place. So I am very doubtful John would start speaking in codes when he was all ready being persecuted for speaking truth. It be sorta pointless to start using code after enduring such oppressions.
EDIT: Plus you must keep in mind John was persecuted for openly speaking of Jesus, which is how he got exiled in the first place. So I am very doubtful John would start speaking in codes when he was all ready being persecuted for speaking truth. It be sorta pointless to start using code after enduring such oppressions.
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imo, sometimes we can see an order, sometimes not so clear...
isaiah 9
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
imo that hasn't happened yet, as we don't have loads of peace...
yet, isaiah 40 has already been fulfilled...
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord,
grace and peace to you!
isaiah 9
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
imo that hasn't happened yet, as we don't have loads of peace...
yet, isaiah 40 has already been fulfilled...
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord,
grace and peace to you!
yes, as i wrote earlier, 'as long as it leads you to Jesus'...i don't know the answer for sure... i was just saying the way i prefer...
yes, he was having a vision... he was 'in the Spirit' or 'in spirit'... were the things far away? i don't know... possibly...
Revelation being a 'code' for present-times... the idea is not that it would protect john from persecution... as you say, he already was being that... it would be so that the book could circulate freely... rome not being a freindly place for treasonous writings... anyone could easily say, 'it's not about rome...' of course, we can say that today... so, maybe the code is working really well... i'm not saying it's that way for sure... just what i prefer...
yes, he was having a vision... he was 'in the Spirit' or 'in spirit'... were the things far away? i don't know... possibly...
Revelation being a 'code' for present-times... the idea is not that it would protect john from persecution... as you say, he already was being that... it would be so that the book could circulate freely... rome not being a freindly place for treasonous writings... anyone could easily say, 'it's not about rome...' of course, we can say that today... so, maybe the code is working really well... i'm not saying it's that way for sure... just what i prefer...