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DiscipleDave said
i am telling you that because in Post #16 you said this:
Hi Marian,
To that statement i responded accordingly. Also you stated above :
This also is not True. Scriptures plainly teaches He Returns at the 7th Trumpet NOT the 7th vial as you are saying here.
Pre-Tribulation believer believe Christ returns Before Tribulation Period begins.
Post-Tribulation believers believe Chirst returns After Tribulation Period ends.
Scriptures plainly teach that Jesus Returns at the 7th Trumpet. Scriptures plainly teach that AFTER the 7th Trumpet blows, then the 7 vials are poured out AFTER Jesus Returns. Therefore MID_TRIBULATION is the only belief that does not contradict any Inspired by God Scriptures. Mid-Trib is the Truth and is Scriptural. 7 seals are opened, 7 Trumpets are blown, Christ Returns at the last Trump. THEN the seven vials are poured out upon the Earth. There is NO Scriptures that is contrary to what i have just said, of coarse there are many who think they know the TRUTH and it is their belief that is contrary to what i have just said and also what the Word of God teaches. 7 Seals are opened, 7 Trumpets are blown, and then 7 vial are poured out. This is the TRUTH, and Christ comes at the 7th Trumpet.
Pretrib belief has verses that contradict that belief.
Posttrib belief has verses that contradict that belief.
Midtrib is the only belied which does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures.
Change your belief to match Scriptures, DO NOT change Scriptures to match your belief.
^i^
Hi Marian,
To that statement i responded accordingly. Also you stated above :
This also is not True. Scriptures plainly teaches He Returns at the 7th Trumpet NOT the 7th vial as you are saying here.
Pre-Tribulation believer believe Christ returns Before Tribulation Period begins.
Post-Tribulation believers believe Chirst returns After Tribulation Period ends.
Scriptures plainly teach that Jesus Returns at the 7th Trumpet. Scriptures plainly teach that AFTER the 7th Trumpet blows, then the 7 vials are poured out AFTER Jesus Returns. Therefore MID_TRIBULATION is the only belief that does not contradict any Inspired by God Scriptures. Mid-Trib is the Truth and is Scriptural. 7 seals are opened, 7 Trumpets are blown, Christ Returns at the last Trump. THEN the seven vials are poured out upon the Earth. There is NO Scriptures that is contrary to what i have just said, of coarse there are many who think they know the TRUTH and it is their belief that is contrary to what i have just said and also what the Word of God teaches. 7 Seals are opened, 7 Trumpets are blown, and then 7 vial are poured out. This is the TRUTH, and Christ comes at the 7th Trumpet.
Pretrib belief has verses that contradict that belief.
Posttrib belief has verses that contradict that belief.
Midtrib is the only belied which does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures.
Change your belief to match Scriptures, DO NOT change Scriptures to match your belief.
^i^
DiscipleDave said
Are you a man? If YOU study the Bible and YOU come up with a belief, and then YOU teach what YOU have come up with, how is that not a teaching from men? Are you a man? If you teach what you have come up with, how is that not a teaching from man?
You yourself testifies that what you teach is from a man, consider: what you said " My (Ahwatukee, a MAN) understanding of eschatology or any of the scriptures did not and does come from the teachings of men. But it comes from the same place that it always has, by {ME, Ahwatukee} spending hours per day or night studying the scriptures.
Brother i have studied the Scriptures probably more than you have, and if i DiscipleDave teach something that i (through my own understanding) have come up with, it is still indeed a teaching from a man. So you can study for a million hours, and by and through your own intellect come up with what you think are Truths, and then teach others what YOU have deduced through your own studies, and it is still a teaching of men. Am i saying what men teach is wrong? No i am not saying that at all, Am i suggesting that study is in vain? NO. Everyone should study the Word. But here is the Truth, if what a person says, and it does not matter how many hours they have studied the Word, if what they say contradicts the Scriptures, then what they say is WRONG, no matter if they have studied it for 10 life times. If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG.
For me, i rarely ever teach things that God has not told me or revealed to me. What i teach is from God, what He has told me. What i teach is not from me, nor from my countless hours of study of the Scriptures. For example, i use to believe Once Saved Always Saved doctrine and pre-trib doctrine, because that is what Preachers taught me all my life, because i believed in pre-trib, i picked up rather quickly the verses that seem to support that belief, and skim over the verses that seemed to contradict, or i would interpret those verses to mean something other that what they said, so as to fit pre-trib belief. So i taught people pre-trib, (a teaching from men, myself being a man) Then God told me it is Mid-Trib, that He would return during the 7 year Tribulation Period, Not BEFORE, Not AFTER. Should i have argued with God, or believe Him? Therefore i started teaching what He told me. This teaching of Mid-trib is not from men, not from myself, but is what God told me. And the more i read Scriptures in light of what He told me, the more all of SCRIPTURES agree with a mid-trib Rapture, and no verse contradicts that TRUTH that God told me. my point is i rarely teach things that i, (a man) have come up with. i usually teach only those things that come from God and not from myself.
if you really want to study the Word without being biased, you should study the Word believing Pre-Trib is the Truth.
Then study the Word believing Post-Trib is the Truth.
Then study the Word believing Mid-Trib is the Truth.
Then you would see and understand that Mid-Trib is the only one that FITS into ALL of Scriptures. But if you believe pre-trib is the Truth, then you are partial in yourself, and your study will also be partial and biased, because you have already determined what the Truth is. This applies to those who believe Post-Trib as well. or any belief for that matter. For example if you believe that Once You are Saved you are Always Saved (OSAS) is the Truth. Then studying the Scriptures to try to prove it wrong, in all likeliness will not be done. Because you believe it is True, therefore need not to prove it is TRUE.
Here is the The Truth. If someone believes pre-trib is the Truth, it is not very like they will be convinced otherwise.
If someone believes post-trib is the Truth, it is not very likely they will be convinced otherwise.
This reminds me of the verse.
Rev_22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
So if someone believes pre-trib or post-trib is the Truth, it is not very likely they will search the Scriptures to try to prove themselves wrong, no it is more like they will adamantly try to prove themselves Right, by showing all the Scriptures that seem to support their Right belief, all the while ignoring all the verses others show them, which reminds me of yet another verse.
1Co_14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
People in this generation choose to be ignorant, because they think they KNOW the Truth, and therefore will not listen to nor hearken to anyone who says differently, even when they show Scriptures that plainly contradict their own doctrine, that is what i say Believe the Word of God not what men teach, because what men teach can be wrong, but what the Word of God teaches is NEVER wrong. Therefore hearken to what the Word of God says and teaches over what men teach.
^i^
You yourself testifies that what you teach is from a man, consider: what you said " My (Ahwatukee, a MAN) understanding of eschatology or any of the scriptures did not and does come from the teachings of men. But it comes from the same place that it always has, by {ME, Ahwatukee} spending hours per day or night studying the scriptures.
Brother i have studied the Scriptures probably more than you have, and if i DiscipleDave teach something that i (through my own understanding) have come up with, it is still indeed a teaching from a man. So you can study for a million hours, and by and through your own intellect come up with what you think are Truths, and then teach others what YOU have deduced through your own studies, and it is still a teaching of men. Am i saying what men teach is wrong? No i am not saying that at all, Am i suggesting that study is in vain? NO. Everyone should study the Word. But here is the Truth, if what a person says, and it does not matter how many hours they have studied the Word, if what they say contradicts the Scriptures, then what they say is WRONG, no matter if they have studied it for 10 life times. If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG.
For me, i rarely ever teach things that God has not told me or revealed to me. What i teach is from God, what He has told me. What i teach is not from me, nor from my countless hours of study of the Scriptures. For example, i use to believe Once Saved Always Saved doctrine and pre-trib doctrine, because that is what Preachers taught me all my life, because i believed in pre-trib, i picked up rather quickly the verses that seem to support that belief, and skim over the verses that seemed to contradict, or i would interpret those verses to mean something other that what they said, so as to fit pre-trib belief. So i taught people pre-trib, (a teaching from men, myself being a man) Then God told me it is Mid-Trib, that He would return during the 7 year Tribulation Period, Not BEFORE, Not AFTER. Should i have argued with God, or believe Him? Therefore i started teaching what He told me. This teaching of Mid-trib is not from men, not from myself, but is what God told me. And the more i read Scriptures in light of what He told me, the more all of SCRIPTURES agree with a mid-trib Rapture, and no verse contradicts that TRUTH that God told me. my point is i rarely teach things that i, (a man) have come up with. i usually teach only those things that come from God and not from myself.
if you really want to study the Word without being biased, you should study the Word believing Pre-Trib is the Truth.
Then study the Word believing Post-Trib is the Truth.
Then study the Word believing Mid-Trib is the Truth.
Then you would see and understand that Mid-Trib is the only one that FITS into ALL of Scriptures. But if you believe pre-trib is the Truth, then you are partial in yourself, and your study will also be partial and biased, because you have already determined what the Truth is. This applies to those who believe Post-Trib as well. or any belief for that matter. For example if you believe that Once You are Saved you are Always Saved (OSAS) is the Truth. Then studying the Scriptures to try to prove it wrong, in all likeliness will not be done. Because you believe it is True, therefore need not to prove it is TRUE.
Here is the The Truth. If someone believes pre-trib is the Truth, it is not very like they will be convinced otherwise.
If someone believes post-trib is the Truth, it is not very likely they will be convinced otherwise.
This reminds me of the verse.
Rev_22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
So if someone believes pre-trib or post-trib is the Truth, it is not very likely they will search the Scriptures to try to prove themselves wrong, no it is more like they will adamantly try to prove themselves Right, by showing all the Scriptures that seem to support their Right belief, all the while ignoring all the verses others show them, which reminds me of yet another verse.
1Co_14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
People in this generation choose to be ignorant, because they think they KNOW the Truth, and therefore will not listen to nor hearken to anyone who says differently, even when they show Scriptures that plainly contradict their own doctrine, that is what i say Believe the Word of God not what men teach, because what men teach can be wrong, but what the Word of God teaches is NEVER wrong. Therefore hearken to what the Word of God says and teaches over what men teach.
^i^
Christian's should not so much concern themselves about what will happen and be more concerned about how devoid we are of Christ fulness experientially in our lives and how shallow our love and obedience to him is. 
It is True first and foremost above any calling in a persons life no matter what part of the body they are, they should get right with God and walk in the light as Jesus did. A person should not teach the Word of God, unless they are living it. Do you teach others to stop committing adultery (sin) all the while you watch porn of fornicators and adulterers, which is sinful? Do you teach others it is evil to lie, yet you hide your porn habit from your spouse, deceiving them? Do you teach others to keep the old covenants 10 commandments, but do not keep them yourself? Do you teach a person should not steal, but then cheat on your taxes at the end of the year? First get yourself right with God, so then you will be in the Will of God and be more effective whatever body part you are.
Many wander what body part they are? What Does God want them to do? What is their calling? FIRST get right with God, then He will reveal all that to you. If He is not revealing all that to you, it is because you are NOT living right in His eyes.
Also above all else, LOVE ONE ANOTHER, this is the Will of God.
^i^
When one says "the teachings of men" is it commonly understood that it is referring to outside sources, ergo, other teachers, and not from ones own study of the scriptures. By your claim you are saying that by reading the word of God, I can't be taught by the Holy Spirit. That said, I do my own studies with the Holy Spirit as my teacher and not from the teachings of other men. Do you understand now?
E
I am starting to HATE this subject. People (brothers and sisters) have a firm foundation of biblical truths until we get to prophesy. Then they sadly sink to roman allegorical and symbolic interpretation of Gods word.
the reformation was a great thing, sadly to many are still stuck in some of the old doctrines..
To the OP. We are not in any of the things concerning Revelation. Non of them have happened yet. Abouty the only thing we can know, is the birth pangs Jesus spoke of in Matt 24 are occurng and getting stronger. which means we are closer to the end and need to be winning the world to Christ before it is too late .
the reformation was a great thing, sadly to many are still stuck in some of the old doctrines..
To the OP. We are not in any of the things concerning Revelation. Non of them have happened yet. Abouty the only thing we can know, is the birth pangs Jesus spoke of in Matt 24 are occurng and getting stronger. which means we are closer to the end and need to be winning the world to Christ before it is too late .
Well, the church won't be here, but anyone who is here when the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments were being poured out wouldn't have to guess about whether they were here or not. These plagues of wrath are meant to decimate the population of the earth and to dismantle all human government. The seals, trumpets and the bowl judgments will be the fulfillment of "the day of the Lord."
Strange how when some folks open up and read the NT Books, they automatically forget history written in the OT Books.
The plagues are meted out by God upon the beast via God's two witnesses...
Rev 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
KJV
Who did God tell to command fire from Heaven to come down upon the earth to destroy the wicked? God's prophet Elijah.
Who did God give power to hold back dew and rains upon the earth? Elijah.
Who did God work the plagues upon Egypt through? Moses and Aaron.
But the plague of Zech.14 on the final day, the "day of the Lord", which is God's cup of wrath of Zephaniah 3, will be only by God Himself on the day of Jesus' one-time return to end the beast's reign and gather His elect Church.
The plagues are meted out by God upon the beast via God's two witnesses...
Rev 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto My two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
KJV
Who did God tell to command fire from Heaven to come down upon the earth to destroy the wicked? God's prophet Elijah.
Who did God give power to hold back dew and rains upon the earth? Elijah.
Who did God work the plagues upon Egypt through? Moses and Aaron.
But the plague of Zech.14 on the final day, the "day of the Lord", which is God's cup of wrath of Zephaniah 3, will be only by God Himself on the day of Jesus' one-time return to end the beast's reign and gather His elect Church.
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Sir, have read about the trumpet judgments?
1st Trumpet: A third of the earth and trees are burned up
2nd Trumpet: A third of the creatures in the sea die and a third of the ships are destroyed
3rd Trumpet: A third of the fresh water is contaminated and many die from drinking it
4th Trumpet: The sun, moon and stars are darkened by a third
5th Trumpet: Demonic beings come out of the Abyss and torment the inhabitants with stings like scorpions
6th Trumpet: Fallen angels kill a third of the earth's population
7th Trumpet: Satan and his angels are thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth
And that is not counting the seals and the bowls. These events are the wrath of God, which is why we continue to see the same warning throughout scripture to be watching and ready for when the Lord comes to gather us. This is not going to be a time of prosperity and leisure living, but a time of wrath and chaos. But to answer your question, anyone who is here during that time is free to bring others to Christ if they can navigate through that horror and survive the above, as well as the other plagues.
1st Trumpet: A third of the earth and trees are burned up
2nd Trumpet: A third of the creatures in the sea die and a third of the ships are destroyed
3rd Trumpet: A third of the fresh water is contaminated and many die from drinking it
4th Trumpet: The sun, moon and stars are darkened by a third
5th Trumpet: Demonic beings come out of the Abyss and torment the inhabitants with stings like scorpions
6th Trumpet: Fallen angels kill a third of the earth's population
7th Trumpet: Satan and his angels are thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth
And that is not counting the seals and the bowls. These events are the wrath of God, which is why we continue to see the same warning throughout scripture to be watching and ready for when the Lord comes to gather us. This is not going to be a time of prosperity and leisure living, but a time of wrath and chaos. But to answer your question, anyone who is here during that time is free to bring others to Christ if they can navigate through that horror and survive the above, as well as the other plagues.
Honestly, I've spent very little time in end-times prophecies. I got caught up in the whole "Left Behind" thing as a young believer, and God took me out of it over time. He's never lead me to get back into that study.
There is no clear-cut understanding of what will happen, no matter how convinced people are that they've got it right. So why should I be another voice adding to that debate when I readily admit I don't know what will happen?
What I do concern myself with is the clear-cut and factual instruction by God to go and make disciples of all nations. He doesn't put any contingencies on that or special circumstances on that. So I'm going to follow that instruction regardless of what circumstances or tragedies come down the pike.
There is no clear-cut understanding of what will happen, no matter how convinced people are that they've got it right. So why should I be another voice adding to that debate when I readily admit I don't know what will happen?
What I do concern myself with is the clear-cut and factual instruction by God to go and make disciples of all nations. He doesn't put any contingencies on that or special circumstances on that. So I'm going to follow that instruction regardless of what circumstances or tragedies come down the pike.