Are we saved by faith alone, or do we need works, too?
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Let me point something out here:
(1) The author begins here with James 2:24 - where it says clearly we are saved not by faith alone
(2) His explanation inbetween then I think is pretty much right on - I would agree with at least most of it.
(3) The problem is then at the end he makes a statement in direct contradiction to the original text - "Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone, and that James was talking about false faith--not real faith--when he said we are not justified by faith alone."
(4) There is no Scripture that says we are saved by faith alone. Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by grace through faith. I am OK with saying that "we are saved by faith" (though this is in actuality only part of the picture), but that is a lot different than saying we are saved by "faith alone".
(5) I prefer to say that we are saved by God's grace through faith. God not our faith is the "opening play" of salvation. Works are then the work of God in our lives after salvation.
(Ach! I missed highlighting what I wanted to on post #60 - you can probably figure it out if you look!)
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I am not saying others are not saved but the work of faith, as the one faith listed must be in respect to Christ.It is the work of God as that by which we can hear God.
So yes I offer coming from the faith of Christ, the faith of God.
Something we can agree in thanks for the response and not dismissing my self as a total weirdo..
Whose faith alone? Again, justified by Christ’s work of faith which provide the grace alone to save us, or our faith alone that comes from the imaginations of our own hearts?
Two directions, faith towards us "faith (of Christ)" producing our amen , our new faith towards him.
I think the beginning of James gives us the information that the faith of Christ is the work of the Holy Spirit. Looking to the end of the matter It speaks of blasphemy . This is attributing the work of one to another. Faith is a work it is just not of our own selves or we will be on the edge of blasphemy.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the “faith of” our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Not the faith we have in (towards) the Lord, but of (coming from) not the Lord in glory but again of glory
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
f it is not a work coming from Christ our Faithful Creator how would it make them blasphemers?
So yes I offer coming from the faith of Christ, the faith of God.
Something we can agree in thanks for the response and not dismissing my self as a total weirdo..
Whose faith alone? Again, justified by Christ’s work of faith which provide the grace alone to save us, or our faith alone that comes from the imaginations of our own hearts?
Two directions, faith towards us "faith (of Christ)" producing our amen , our new faith towards him.
I think the beginning of James gives us the information that the faith of Christ is the work of the Holy Spirit. Looking to the end of the matter It speaks of blasphemy . This is attributing the work of one to another. Faith is a work it is just not of our own selves or we will be on the edge of blasphemy.
Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the “faith of” our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Not the faith we have in (towards) the Lord, but of (coming from) not the Lord in glory but again of glory
Jam 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
f it is not a work coming from Christ our Faithful Creator how would it make them blasphemers?
thats really sound stuff you wrote. "the useless works" is a reference to the regulations of cleansing rites, food regulations, festival observance, Obeying the Lord, should in no ones mind be made " works" because Love for God is to obey Him and it isnt a greivance to do so. Thois is only possible through the re generation of the inward man, a man made righteous from the heart, Loves obedience because He understands. Gods ways are right. if we will not be born again and follow the spirit we remain a sinner that sees Gods ways as a terrible burden the sinners mind " Obeying Gods word is not possible" " im just ho i am i dont need to change anything, Im just me, i can live as i want, my life is mine" in essence " I am my Lord" and I will be saved regardless of my actions."
thats what paul is explaining here
romans 8: 5-8 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded IS DEATH; but to be spiritually minded IS LIFE and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT PLEASE GOD.
V 12 "Therefore, brethren, WE ARE DEBTORS, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye LIVE AFTER the flesh, ye shall die: BUT IF YE through the Spirit do MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live."
if we do not repent of our sinful actions, we will die, if we live after the spirit, the deeds of our flesh nature will die and we will live. If we continue in our minds thinking we can live carefree not acknowledging our own sinful behaviors, and repenting of those ways, then we have a carnal Mind that will never accept the spirit or submit to God. correct doctrine is important because Our mind follows what we believe. If a believer accepts " i have to repent of sin" they will because they believe, if they are convinced " my sin doesnt matter, repentance is just inward thought, my actions are irrelevant" hat person will never repent.
thats what paul is explaining here
romans 8: 5-8 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6For to be carnally minded IS DEATH; but to be spiritually minded IS LIFE and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT PLEASE GOD.
V 12 "Therefore, brethren, WE ARE DEBTORS, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye LIVE AFTER the flesh, ye shall die: BUT IF YE through the Spirit do MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live."
if we do not repent of our sinful actions, we will die, if we live after the spirit, the deeds of our flesh nature will die and we will live. If we continue in our minds thinking we can live carefree not acknowledging our own sinful behaviors, and repenting of those ways, then we have a carnal Mind that will never accept the spirit or submit to God. correct doctrine is important because Our mind follows what we believe. If a believer accepts " i have to repent of sin" they will because they believe, if they are convinced " my sin doesnt matter, repentance is just inward thought, my actions are irrelevant" hat person will never repent.
sure it does, but is it not clear what Love is or how we know what it is according to scripture?
when we say " we only owe Love" thats true, what is Love according to God? is it not to obey His commandments? pretty straight forward really. this is the thing
Love doesnt commit adultery in a marriage , Love doesnt steal from the neighbor, Love doesnt have different gods, Love doesnt Lie to another person, Love doesnt bear false witness against someone else, Love doesnt kill someone, Love honors parents ect....Love is explained in great detail By God in the Law of moses, we learn predominately what Love doesnt do, it doesnt harm others, by lying, stealing, killin ect Gods Laws outline what Love is.
Through Jesus we learn Love turns the other cheek, Love forgives again and again, Love gives to the person who has great need, Love acts toward another ect. Jesus teaches much more of what Love Does do for others. when you put the thou shalt nots together with the teaching of Jesus, you have a blueprint for True Godly Love. the love of the world says " i love you friend ill pray for you" Gods Love " meets whatever need we are able to meet" Love is action. so to say we just Love, or we just obey Gods commandments is the same thing. because it is the Love of God that we are to express to the world.
When you say " Love comes from God anyways and makes us able" the thing is He has done that through His word. His Love Gets into our hearts because we believe the word of God, what God says, and what Jesus has shown as an example to His disciples. being friendly is a good thing, but that doesnt equate to Love. when someone has a need that we can meet unselfishly giving of ourselves to honor Jesus Love...then we are Loving and Love will always look like the teaching of Jesus Christ. to obey Jesus is to Love thy fellow man. because His commands and teachings are about how we treat others. forgive, dont take revenge, when you have something against another person, go and make it right with them...on and Jesus teaches what Godly Love is, and teaches us to do those things. To Love people without actions is useless, what matters is what we do in response to Gods Love, that will determine whether we are walking in the Love of God, or are fooling ourselves.
when we say " we only owe Love" thats true, what is Love according to God? is it not to obey His commandments? pretty straight forward really. this is the thing
Love doesnt commit adultery in a marriage , Love doesnt steal from the neighbor, Love doesnt have different gods, Love doesnt Lie to another person, Love doesnt bear false witness against someone else, Love doesnt kill someone, Love honors parents ect....Love is explained in great detail By God in the Law of moses, we learn predominately what Love doesnt do, it doesnt harm others, by lying, stealing, killin ect Gods Laws outline what Love is.
Through Jesus we learn Love turns the other cheek, Love forgives again and again, Love gives to the person who has great need, Love acts toward another ect. Jesus teaches much more of what Love Does do for others. when you put the thou shalt nots together with the teaching of Jesus, you have a blueprint for True Godly Love. the love of the world says " i love you friend ill pray for you" Gods Love " meets whatever need we are able to meet" Love is action. so to say we just Love, or we just obey Gods commandments is the same thing. because it is the Love of God that we are to express to the world.
When you say " Love comes from God anyways and makes us able" the thing is He has done that through His word. His Love Gets into our hearts because we believe the word of God, what God says, and what Jesus has shown as an example to His disciples. being friendly is a good thing, but that doesnt equate to Love. when someone has a need that we can meet unselfishly giving of ourselves to honor Jesus Love...then we are Loving and Love will always look like the teaching of Jesus Christ. to obey Jesus is to Love thy fellow man. because His commands and teachings are about how we treat others. forgive, dont take revenge, when you have something against another person, go and make it right with them...on and Jesus teaches what Godly Love is, and teaches us to do those things. To Love people without actions is useless, what matters is what we do in response to Gods Love, that will determine whether we are walking in the Love of God, or are fooling ourselves.
ephesians 2: 9-10 "For BY GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, CREATED in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS which God hath before ordained that WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM."
james 2:.14-18 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD, being alone.18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: SHEW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT thy works, and I WILL SHEW THEE MY FAITH by my works."
No one can boast and say " i am saved without Jesus" thats undeniable, but when does obeying God become a dead work or a boast? boasting would be " look at me im great, because i have done so many great things god will now save me" that would be salvation by works and a boast.
Saying this though " Jesus taught us everything we need, and told us to learn and obey it, He is the Lord " thats an exhibition of faith in Jesus Christ. we believe therefore we obey having been forgiven through His suffering. Ill take the "work" of hearing and obeying the Lord Jesus who died to save me anyday.
james 2:.14-18 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it HATH NOT WORKS, IS DEAD, being alone.18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: SHEW ME THY FAITH WITHOUT thy works, and I WILL SHEW THEE MY FAITH by my works."
No one can boast and say " i am saved without Jesus" thats undeniable, but when does obeying God become a dead work or a boast? boasting would be " look at me im great, because i have done so many great things god will now save me" that would be salvation by works and a boast.
Saying this though " Jesus taught us everything we need, and told us to learn and obey it, He is the Lord " thats an exhibition of faith in Jesus Christ. we believe therefore we obey having been forgiven through His suffering. Ill take the "work" of hearing and obeying the Lord Jesus who died to save me anyday.
what if were lying, and stealing? are we still working for Jesus when our actions are actually serving satan? isnt there a correlation between who were working for and what are works are? Our deeds are the evidence of who we serve. we can say " i serve God" but the truth of that is clear
romans 6:16-18 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom YE OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN unto death, OR OF OBEDIENCE unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Jesus ..John 8 :34 "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin"
John 1 john 3:7-10 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Our actions determine who we are serving, to serve God is to do what is right according to Jesus Christ. Our actions tell the truth
romans 6:16-18 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom YE OBEY; WHETHER OF SIN unto death, OR OF OBEDIENCE unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Jesus ..John 8 :34 "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin"
John 1 john 3:7-10 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
Our actions determine who we are serving, to serve God is to do what is right according to Jesus Christ. Our actions tell the truth
Revelation 12:17 - New American Standard Bible
“So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”
The Scriptures - “Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."
King James Bible - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12 - Parallel Verses
The Scriptures - Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.
New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
“So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”
The Scriptures - “Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the commands of Yah and possessing the witness of יהושעMessiah."
King James Bible - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12 - Parallel Verses
The Scriptures - Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.
New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.
We should know what Jame's 2:1 is saying in context (Jam 2:1-12).
My brothers,show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory (James 1:2).
James is talking about the sin of partiality. James has already mentioned this in 1:9-11,27. Now in the verses
The text is referring to those who have faith in Christ: James is talking about the sin of partiality. James has already mentioned this in 1:9-11,27. Now in 2:1:12 he goes deeper. Their partiality towards the rich and their exploitation towards the poor is the sin.
The wealthy are the ones who Blaspheme the name of the Lord ''They oppress you and drag you into court (James 2:6b; cf. Mal 3:5, Amos 4:1)".
Remember, we are not perfect, we still sin, and those whom James was addressing were sinning, and he was teaching and correcting them (as it does us). The royal law .. love thy naighbour...
So to be honest I am kinda lost in understanding what you are trying to say about James 2:1-12, even the King Jimmy is clear!
Faith itself is a Grace, whereby the 'elect' are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls (Heb 10:39). (it doesn't matter your view on the 'elect', the truth of it still remains). WCF.
This enabling is by the Spirit of Christ working in the believers heart. Your eyes need to be opened and your ears able to hear before you can 'BELIEVE' the truth of the Gospel.
If you believe in Christ, Have confidence in Him, Trust him then that is you believing/having Faith! If you believe in the truth that Christ was Faithful in His active and passive obedience, then that righteousness is imputed to you.
I don't know a lot about the Bible so this is just my opinion and it could very well be wrong.
I think that it's faith in Him by the individual that saves the individual, I know that it's part of the whole Christian thing to help people and stuff when possible and I'm all for that but I don't think that it is our job to do what parents are failing to do.
Most people are aware of the concept of right and wrong by the time they reach adulthood and those that do wrong do so because they CHOOSE to do wrong and it's that choice that condemns them to hell not only that but they enjoy doing the wrongs that they do,they wouldn't do them if they didn't.
When you are still living with your parents you are required to do and believe what they tell you for the sake of propriety if nothing else but once you become a adult and leave their home you have the freedom do and believe what ever you want so from that point forward your actions are no longer their fault there yours.
Jesus is Jewish correct? I think that I read somewhere that they believe that as a ignorant child you are allowed to experience things and make mistakes because of your ignorance but adults have to take full responsibility for themselves because by that stage in life you should no longer need the excuse of ignorance to fall back on.
It seems to me that this is a big problem not among the non-believers but the supposed believers it's being taught that you don't have to ensure that you don't sin because God is such a nice guy that He's gonna send these magical cartoon characters to "save" EVERYONE no matter what you did in life all you have to do is "repent" even if you raped and murdered children just "repent" afterwards these fairy tales figures will "save" EVERYONE as long as they are contrite,well sure they are contrite once they realize that they will spend a eternity being damned in hell,there would have to be something mentally wrong with them if they weren't.
I think that it is necessary for people to save themselves and in doing that they prove to God that they are worthy of Heaven.
I don't believe that it's possible to retire into Heaven if you contributed to the degeneracy of this world because at the time that you were contributing to it with fornication,hate,greed etc. you CHOSE to do it and ENJOYED it.
In this information age if you lived 20yrs on this planet and don't know about the concept of right and wrong it's your own fault even people in the middle of the jungle have books to read and internet access so ignorance is not a acceptable excuse.
Im doing exactly what you are doing for the same reason because it's obviously the end so im learning as much as I can, anyone can do this but they CHOOSE not to, instead those of us that are educating ourselves are responsible for those that don't? I don't believe that,we are supposed to "save" those that CHOOSE to not educate themselves about their world? I don't think so it's in the individuals best interest to educate themselves so they don't go to hell.
You might be able to "save" someone but you can't hold their hand forever to make sure they don't screw up again and for grown adults to make mistakes that condemns them to hell that's what would be necessary.
I fully appreciate that it all hinges on faith that you have to have such faith that non-believers think that we are crazy because of it,but there has to be something said for practicality and holding a adults hand in Heaven for eternity just to make sure that they don't screw up again is not practical.
I'll simplify it .
If it's true that people get "saved" no matter what they did in life then they go to Heaven then why is the world screwed up the way that it is?
I'll tell you why ,because this nonsense about being "saved" is a satanic practice interewoven into our belief system with such skill that most of us don't even see it.
Being "saved" is a punch card to do whatever you want just lose control of yourself don't worry you'll be "saved".
The only people that can be saved are the children so if you want to save people them ,you teach them that it's in their best interest to hold themselves accountable for their actions every second of everyday,it's in their best interest because if they don't do that they are probably going to hell.
As Christians people look to us for guidance in NOT going to hell that's why I lived my adult life making sure that I don't piss God off because I am deathly afraid of hell.
It's terrible what we teach these people that look to us for guidance we say that we are born sinners so God EXPECTS failure from us,I don't believe that,that is a satanic belief interwoven into our belief system and because we are the natural degenerates that we are we want to believe that.
Most call it sin I call it failure.
If I offended anyone I truly didn't mean to
I think that it's faith in Him by the individual that saves the individual, I know that it's part of the whole Christian thing to help people and stuff when possible and I'm all for that but I don't think that it is our job to do what parents are failing to do.
Most people are aware of the concept of right and wrong by the time they reach adulthood and those that do wrong do so because they CHOOSE to do wrong and it's that choice that condemns them to hell not only that but they enjoy doing the wrongs that they do,they wouldn't do them if they didn't.
When you are still living with your parents you are required to do and believe what they tell you for the sake of propriety if nothing else but once you become a adult and leave their home you have the freedom do and believe what ever you want so from that point forward your actions are no longer their fault there yours.
Jesus is Jewish correct? I think that I read somewhere that they believe that as a ignorant child you are allowed to experience things and make mistakes because of your ignorance but adults have to take full responsibility for themselves because by that stage in life you should no longer need the excuse of ignorance to fall back on.
It seems to me that this is a big problem not among the non-believers but the supposed believers it's being taught that you don't have to ensure that you don't sin because God is such a nice guy that He's gonna send these magical cartoon characters to "save" EVERYONE no matter what you did in life all you have to do is "repent" even if you raped and murdered children just "repent" afterwards these fairy tales figures will "save" EVERYONE as long as they are contrite,well sure they are contrite once they realize that they will spend a eternity being damned in hell,there would have to be something mentally wrong with them if they weren't.
I think that it is necessary for people to save themselves and in doing that they prove to God that they are worthy of Heaven.
I don't believe that it's possible to retire into Heaven if you contributed to the degeneracy of this world because at the time that you were contributing to it with fornication,hate,greed etc. you CHOSE to do it and ENJOYED it.
In this information age if you lived 20yrs on this planet and don't know about the concept of right and wrong it's your own fault even people in the middle of the jungle have books to read and internet access so ignorance is not a acceptable excuse.
Im doing exactly what you are doing for the same reason because it's obviously the end so im learning as much as I can, anyone can do this but they CHOOSE not to, instead those of us that are educating ourselves are responsible for those that don't? I don't believe that,we are supposed to "save" those that CHOOSE to not educate themselves about their world? I don't think so it's in the individuals best interest to educate themselves so they don't go to hell.
You might be able to "save" someone but you can't hold their hand forever to make sure they don't screw up again and for grown adults to make mistakes that condemns them to hell that's what would be necessary.
I fully appreciate that it all hinges on faith that you have to have such faith that non-believers think that we are crazy because of it,but there has to be something said for practicality and holding a adults hand in Heaven for eternity just to make sure that they don't screw up again is not practical.
I'll simplify it .
If it's true that people get "saved" no matter what they did in life then they go to Heaven then why is the world screwed up the way that it is?
I'll tell you why ,because this nonsense about being "saved" is a satanic practice interewoven into our belief system with such skill that most of us don't even see it.
Being "saved" is a punch card to do whatever you want just lose control of yourself don't worry you'll be "saved".
The only people that can be saved are the children so if you want to save people them ,you teach them that it's in their best interest to hold themselves accountable for their actions every second of everyday,it's in their best interest because if they don't do that they are probably going to hell.
As Christians people look to us for guidance in NOT going to hell that's why I lived my adult life making sure that I don't piss God off because I am deathly afraid of hell.
It's terrible what we teach these people that look to us for guidance we say that we are born sinners so God EXPECTS failure from us,I don't believe that,that is a satanic belief interwoven into our belief system and because we are the natural degenerates that we are we want to believe that.
Most call it sin I call it failure.
If I offended anyone I truly didn't mean to
The writing in the topic destroys its own point with the scripture given.
1. 95+% of the scriptures used was Paul's epistles.
2. Paul was constantly covering in these writings the problems of Judiazers adding law to the Gospel. As a matter of fact, most of Paul's scriptures say "works of the law".
3. Paul did not write about any other works but those of the Law, for they were the only works problem.
4. Pauls writes in Eph 2:9 not by works, lest any man should boast.
Does anybody know an actual scripture that covers religious people bragging about their works? There's several:
Luke 18:9And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Who's bragging? the pharisee. What kind of "works" was he bragging about? The works of the Law.
Jesus used this to make the point that the pharisees bragged about their "works" of the Law.
Note this scripture:
Matthew 23:1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5“But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6“They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men.
Here, the pharisees enjoy their works being noticed by men. They are braggarts, boasters.
Mat 6:1 1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2“So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3“But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.5“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites;for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6“But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
Again, proud of their works, bragging in actions.
16“Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 17“But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face 18so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
This is what all the "works" issue is all about.
There is NO scripture in the NT that speaks about Gentile's works. NADA.
Now, let's keep the Law of Christ..... Take up your cross, follow in Christ's steps, bring forth fruit, abide in the vine..... if you love Jesus, keep HIS commandments!
Now, for a little humor..... Would you buy a used car from a guy named Matt Slick? I didn't think so.
1. 95+% of the scriptures used was Paul's epistles.
2. Paul was constantly covering in these writings the problems of Judiazers adding law to the Gospel. As a matter of fact, most of Paul's scriptures say "works of the law".
3. Paul did not write about any other works but those of the Law, for they were the only works problem.
4. Pauls writes in Eph 2:9 not by works, lest any man should boast.
Does anybody know an actual scripture that covers religious people bragging about their works? There's several:
Luke 18:9And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Who's bragging? the pharisee. What kind of "works" was he bragging about? The works of the Law.
Jesus used this to make the point that the pharisees bragged about their "works" of the Law.
Note this scripture:
Matthew 23:1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. 5“But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. 6“They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men.
Here, the pharisees enjoy their works being noticed by men. They are braggarts, boasters.
Mat 6:1 1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
2“So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3“But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.5“When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites;for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6“But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
Again, proud of their works, bragging in actions.
16“Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 17“But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face 18so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
This is what all the "works" issue is all about.
There is NO scripture in the NT that speaks about Gentile's works. NADA.
Now, let's keep the Law of Christ..... Take up your cross, follow in Christ's steps, bring forth fruit, abide in the vine..... if you love Jesus, keep HIS commandments!
Now, for a little humor..... Would you buy a used car from a guy named Matt Slick? I didn't think so.
M
And that's a false argument. A straw man. No conservative Bible Christian believes in salvation by works.
That is a horribly botched misquote - FYI. And your quote actually contradicts the passage you're referring to -- Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN will enter."
"Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?"
This is why I try so valiantly to warn people off from the "parlor tricks" of the Charismatics today. These guys in the passage who are standing before the Lord are trying to get credit for good deeds because of their "parlor tricks". The Devil has long since learned how to create rough facsimiles of 'miracles'...with these parlor tricks we see in the church world today. Obviously, Jesus isn't having it.
But again, we see Jesus in this passage becoming "guilty" of what some you have badly mis-defined as "works-based salvation". You have come smack up against the Lord of Glory in doing so.
Oh my goodness! If I were to say we can only expect to go to heaven if we "do the will of the Father" you would call me a heretic...or even suggest I am going to Hell, as you just did!
That is a horribly botched misquote - FYI. And your quote actually contradicts the passage you're referring to -- Matthew 7:21-23:
"Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHO IS IN HEAVEN will enter."
"Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?"
This is why I try so valiantly to warn people off from the "parlor tricks" of the Charismatics today. These guys in the passage who are standing before the Lord are trying to get credit for good deeds because of their "parlor tricks". The Devil has long since learned how to create rough facsimiles of 'miracles'...with these parlor tricks we see in the church world today. Obviously, Jesus isn't having it.
But again, we see Jesus in this passage becoming "guilty" of what some you have badly mis-defined as "works-based salvation". You have come smack up against the Lord of Glory in doing so.
Oh my goodness! If I were to say we can only expect to go to heaven if we "do the will of the Father" you would call me a heretic...or even suggest I am going to Hell, as you just did!
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We are not saved by the kind of faith that remains "alone" - (barren of works) which is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14). SAYS-CLAIMS he has faith but he has no works. Where is the evidence that this hypothetical person has genuine faith? The absence of evidence can be construed as evidence of absence.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith, which is a dead faith.
There is no Scripture that says we are saved by faith and works. The Bible clearly teaches in many passages of Scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of Scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many passages of Scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages Scripture say that we are saved through faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST "alone."
What a genuine believer means by salvation through "faith alone" (faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation - Ephesians 2:8,9) and what James means by "faith alone" (empty profession of faith that remains "alone" in producing works - James 2:14) is NOT the same message. Don't let the word "alone" fool you.
We are "saved through faith, not works" and not faith and works.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith, which is a dead faith.
There is no Scripture that says we are saved by faith and works. The Bible clearly teaches in many passages of Scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages of Scripture in order to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many passages of Scripture in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages Scripture say that we are saved through faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST "alone."
What a genuine believer means by salvation through "faith alone" (faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation - Ephesians 2:8,9) and what James means by "faith alone" (empty profession of faith that remains "alone" in producing works - James 2:14) is NOT the same message. Don't let the word "alone" fool you.
We are "saved through faith, not works" and not faith and works.
