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A
Thank you! Up until your post, all I saw in this thread was the same lame American game of politics as usual. You're the first to suggest it's different than that when we look at the Bible as a whole. Stephen was killed for resisting, and yet it wasn't the government he resisted. So thank you for bringing out Bible reality versus "American patriotism" as Biblical.
P
What I said to Valiant also applies to you. Go to Strongs and other study aids. Look and see exactly what the wording used in those scriptures means in the Greek. There are 4 things we are to wrestle against (look up what wrestle means also) and only the 4th mentions spiritual wickedness in high places and there is nothing to say that doesn't mean wicked rulers. On the contrary, we can easily understand that to be the topic.
Make no mistake, America's sitting President would imprison his detractors at will if he could, especially White, conservative Christians. He's that bad; he's that tyrannical; he's that godless. If he overtly attempted such tyranny, there wold be bloodshed, and rightly so. God's people have that right and that obligation.
Render to Cesar the things that are Cesar's and to God the things that are Gods.
Government is not a terror to good works but to evil.
I cannot stop abortions. I cannot stop sodomite weddings. I cannot stop oppression of the poor or war. My God knows my heart and He will judge those who act counter to the goodness and mercy of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Government is not a terror to good works but to evil.
I cannot stop abortions. I cannot stop sodomite weddings. I cannot stop oppression of the poor or war. My God knows my heart and He will judge those who act counter to the goodness and mercy of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The so-called body of Christ is factionalized and full of disobedience at every level. It is filled with wolves, heretics, hirelings, scam artists, and the followers of these sects have no spiritual wisdom, let alone earthly wisdom.
Judgment begins in the house of the Lord. Before the false prophet takes his seat and becomes known (people call him the anti-christ, but scripture identifies him as the false prophet) the Almighty begins by judging the church, fake or not. These verses are relevant:
Heb 12:26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."
Heb 12:27 This phrase, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain.
Only the spiritual will remain. The so-called church is full of materialism, ritual, business, marketing, machinery, earthly.
So..., regarding the grave offenses of America (they are piled high as heaven), the Lord said He will judge the nations. This is not just each individual, but the nations. Each nation has responsibility to do what is right, at every level of life, and those citizens of those nations will not be excused by saying "it was their government's fault". All people have a voice, and Jesus said to not only make disciples of all the nations, but to expose darkness.
Americans have been slothful and asleep for decades, and while they were playing games, watching TV and movies, playing "church", trying to get a super band to emotionally inspire people with good feelings, they have lost their rights, freedoms, money, and now you have to get permits and be relegated to places where a protest will be tolerated.
This country, the USA, has not had a declaration of War on any nation since WW2, and yet our armed forces have imperialistically trodden into numerous lands and killed. In just the past decade alone, we ruined Iraq (told they had weapons of mass destruction which proved untrue, told they were somehow in league with "terrorists of 911" which also was untrue) and have also gone into Afghanistan (remember when we armed the Afghans against the USSR in the 1970's and said how evil the USSR was for invading Afghanistan?) Well now we do the same thing. We have also killed Gaddafi of Libya. Make no mistake, NATO is under the USA's leadership, and Libya's gold reserves were stolen (go ahead and google it) for which is why the embassy was attacked.
We roused up the Egyptians telling them to protest and overthrow their government so they could get democracy (Hilary helped that movement) and yet the people in America are not allowed to protest and overthrow their own government. Egypt's government is now worse than it was since getting America's help.
We have gone into Pakistan, Nigeria, Sudan, and I cannot even name them all, ALL without a declaration of War as the US Constitution demands as necessary.
We send drones over to kill "terrorists" and innocent men, women and children get killed.
In this country we now have to tolerate our elementary children to be taught the homosexuality is normal and celebrate Gay Day parades, etc.
The outrages are sickening, and what does the "church" do about it? NOTHING.
I went to several institutional churches 2½ years ago to alert the so-called leaders (pastors, teachers, priests) about the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) bill that Obama had just signed into law January 3, 2013 which allows the military to barge into our homes without a search warrant, drag you out of your bed at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, cart you off to jail INDEFINITE DETENTION, without habeas corpus (the right to be told by the gov't what you are being tried with), and NO right to a lawyer, and nobody to know where you have been jailed to.... ALL because you MIGHT be suspected of being a terrorist.
Not a single church "leader" would touch it. They all told me that they cannot speak about politics being a church by government law. Lest they lose their not for profit status.
Disgusting. Shameful. America. Churches are all the same no matter what country you go to. Stupid and dead.
So there you have it. Your Bill of Rights are now used for toilet paper. You are not even aware of this, I'd be willing to bet.
But so long as you have your smartphones, a couple of friends to go to the movies with, and listen to your latest christian MP3, life is great!
Judgment begins in the house of the Lord. Before the false prophet takes his seat and becomes known (people call him the anti-christ, but scripture identifies him as the false prophet) the Almighty begins by judging the church, fake or not. These verses are relevant:
Heb 12:26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."
Heb 12:27 This phrase, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain.
Only the spiritual will remain. The so-called church is full of materialism, ritual, business, marketing, machinery, earthly.
So..., regarding the grave offenses of America (they are piled high as heaven), the Lord said He will judge the nations. This is not just each individual, but the nations. Each nation has responsibility to do what is right, at every level of life, and those citizens of those nations will not be excused by saying "it was their government's fault". All people have a voice, and Jesus said to not only make disciples of all the nations, but to expose darkness.
Americans have been slothful and asleep for decades, and while they were playing games, watching TV and movies, playing "church", trying to get a super band to emotionally inspire people with good feelings, they have lost their rights, freedoms, money, and now you have to get permits and be relegated to places where a protest will be tolerated.
This country, the USA, has not had a declaration of War on any nation since WW2, and yet our armed forces have imperialistically trodden into numerous lands and killed. In just the past decade alone, we ruined Iraq (told they had weapons of mass destruction which proved untrue, told they were somehow in league with "terrorists of 911" which also was untrue) and have also gone into Afghanistan (remember when we armed the Afghans against the USSR in the 1970's and said how evil the USSR was for invading Afghanistan?) Well now we do the same thing. We have also killed Gaddafi of Libya. Make no mistake, NATO is under the USA's leadership, and Libya's gold reserves were stolen (go ahead and google it) for which is why the embassy was attacked.
We roused up the Egyptians telling them to protest and overthrow their government so they could get democracy (Hilary helped that movement) and yet the people in America are not allowed to protest and overthrow their own government. Egypt's government is now worse than it was since getting America's help.
We have gone into Pakistan, Nigeria, Sudan, and I cannot even name them all, ALL without a declaration of War as the US Constitution demands as necessary.
We send drones over to kill "terrorists" and innocent men, women and children get killed.
In this country we now have to tolerate our elementary children to be taught the homosexuality is normal and celebrate Gay Day parades, etc.
The outrages are sickening, and what does the "church" do about it? NOTHING.
I went to several institutional churches 2½ years ago to alert the so-called leaders (pastors, teachers, priests) about the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) bill that Obama had just signed into law January 3, 2013 which allows the military to barge into our homes without a search warrant, drag you out of your bed at 3:00 a.m. in the morning, cart you off to jail INDEFINITE DETENTION, without habeas corpus (the right to be told by the gov't what you are being tried with), and NO right to a lawyer, and nobody to know where you have been jailed to.... ALL because you MIGHT be suspected of being a terrorist.
Not a single church "leader" would touch it. They all told me that they cannot speak about politics being a church by government law. Lest they lose their not for profit status.
Disgusting. Shameful. America. Churches are all the same no matter what country you go to. Stupid and dead.
So there you have it. Your Bill of Rights are now used for toilet paper. You are not even aware of this, I'd be willing to bet.
But so long as you have your smartphones, a couple of friends to go to the movies with, and listen to your latest christian MP3, life is great!
In Mat chapter 24 we are given an idea of how end time events will unfold. that description concludes withe the statement Matt 24:36
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
KJV
My point is that what God has said will happen will indeed happen; and the Father, knowing what will happen, and when, has a fixed schedule for end time events.
Political activism is pointless; because we lack the power, and should lack the desire to alter God's schedule.
The only thing we are to resist is pressure to join ourselves to any government's ungodliness. We should not try to alter government's political course.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
KJV
My point is that what God has said will happen will indeed happen; and the Father, knowing what will happen, and when, has a fixed schedule for end time events.
Political activism is pointless; because we lack the power, and should lack the desire to alter God's schedule.
The only thing we are to resist is pressure to join ourselves to any government's ungodliness. We should not try to alter government's political course.
See what I mean, people?
Hopeless.
Have you ever stopped to think that the reason the "anti-christ" can come to power through America's wealth and armed forces, is because people like you turn a blind eye and deaf ear to what our elected representatives do?
Now tell me, and be sure to be true to your thesis, that you do not vote. You had better tell me that you do not vote at all, or else your post above can also be said to be hypocritical.
A republic is the highest form of government that can be entrusted to men, because it requires a very wise people and activated people. America no longer has that, and so God is taking our republic away from us (since we have proven we are irresponsible and incapable of being entrusted with one any longer) and is quickly giving us tyranny. It is our just due.
G
I completely agree with Marc. I know exactly what He is saying. We know the end, Jesus Christ told us. We are not changing it.
If believers are positive to His word(Studying and growing in grace and knowledge) God takes care of the periphery of the believers world.
As goes the believer.........so goes the nation.
Covenant theology,dominion theology,kingdom now theology has the believers working on the periphery and trying to fix the periphery and they are neglecting the core.
The anti-christ comes under the guise of "cleaning up this world" or "world peace" and most believers are right in the mix of "cleaning up this world."
This world, this Nation and all other nations are hopeless. Jesus Christ is our hope. Jesus Christ comes back and "cleans up this world" not us. We are to bring the light to the individual who is lost in the darkness of this world, we are not called to fix the darkness of this world.
If believers are positive to His word(Studying and growing in grace and knowledge) God takes care of the periphery of the believers world.
As goes the believer.........so goes the nation.
Covenant theology,dominion theology,kingdom now theology has the believers working on the periphery and trying to fix the periphery and they are neglecting the core.
The anti-christ comes under the guise of "cleaning up this world" or "world peace" and most believers are right in the mix of "cleaning up this world."
This world, this Nation and all other nations are hopeless. Jesus Christ is our hope. Jesus Christ comes back and "cleans up this world" not us. We are to bring the light to the individual who is lost in the darkness of this world, we are not called to fix the darkness of this world.
Well well well. <sigh> So glad to know that you do not vote, do not protest, DO NOT CARE, and are willing to be judged by Christ because you are complicit with the atrocities that the USA is perpetrating all over the world, and also here in this land.
Let me hear your hearty AMEN to that!
You coward, weak, horrible representative of a human being.
At least if you tried, or at least pretended to care, I would not be so scathing with my words.
G
1 Peter 4:12-19
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Nowhere in the Bible are Christians shown, instructed, commanded to take up arms and fight governments.
Bible never mentions Christians in first century taking up arms and fighting earthly governments.
Acts 8:1-4
And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
First century Christians hid and ran from their persecutors: not from the cause of their persecution. They carried the truth with them. Essentially, an unstoppable fire storm was ignited. Truth prevailed. Our cozy comfy settings are on the verge of being wiped out. Better resolve now to stand for the truth. Taking up arms is not what we've been called to.
Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Is this an exception? I tend to think so. It's protecting the family from immediate danger.
The Revelation message.
No lasting harm will come to the saints. Jesus is the victor. The earthly governments cannot defeat the Lord nor His Kingdom. The suffering of the saints is temporary, but the glory of the saints with Jesus Christ is eternal.
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Nowhere in the Bible are Christians shown, instructed, commanded to take up arms and fight governments.
Bible never mentions Christians in first century taking up arms and fighting earthly governments.
Acts 8:1-4
And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.
As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
First century Christians hid and ran from their persecutors: not from the cause of their persecution. They carried the truth with them. Essentially, an unstoppable fire storm was ignited. Truth prevailed. Our cozy comfy settings are on the verge of being wiped out. Better resolve now to stand for the truth. Taking up arms is not what we've been called to.
Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Is this an exception? I tend to think so. It's protecting the family from immediate danger.
The Revelation message.
No lasting harm will come to the saints. Jesus is the victor. The earthly governments cannot defeat the Lord nor His Kingdom. The suffering of the saints is temporary, but the glory of the saints with Jesus Christ is eternal.