Are we willing to be blind?

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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,275
499
83
#1
Jesus said unto them, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." - John 9:41


I was once talking with a group of people who all supported the same "church", so I asked them a simple question. "Have you learned to discern the difference between 'truth' and 'doctrine' ?"

They answered "Uh... Yeah. Why do you think we're in [unnamed church]?"

I said "That's why I'm asking. Have you learned how to recognize the difference between 'Truth' and 'doctrine' in your church?"

They said "What do you mean? We're [unnamed church affiliation]. Our doctrine is right."

I said "Is it perfect... ALL of it... Every little bit?"

They said "Well no, it's not PERFECT. I'm sure there are some small errors somewhere."

I said "And THAT is exactly why I ask the question. I'm not worried about you being deceived by some other group. I'm not even worried about you being deceived by me. Because when you encounter others, you have your guard up. But you trust your own church. And you've already acknowledged that there is a real likelihood of some error being preached there. So if you don't learn how to tell the difference between what is truth and what is being taught, you'll be deceived by your own church."

They basically just looked at me with stunned, fearful expressions as they considered what they'd just learned.

The same danger faces everyone here. We keep our guard up against anyone we consider to be on the outside. But are we able, and I mean TRULY able to discern untruth, mistake or error if it comes from within...ESPECIALLY if coming from within our own person?

One of the greatest obstacles to someone 'seeing' something new or deeper, is when that person says within him-or-herself. "I don't need to learn. I already know. I already see clearly." (Better read 1 Cor. 13:12)

John chapter 9 is about Jesus healing a blind man, while the 'religious' people of the day were incapable of seeing what was truly going on.
In the last verse of the chapter, quoted above, Jesus was trying to tell them the problem. As long as they claimed they 'see', they would remain blind (because of stubbornness) and remain guilty (because of claiming to have clear understanding).

There is error in your church. ( I promise you there is). If you admit that you cannot see it, and cry out to Jesus/God for healing, he can give you miraculous sight just as he did the blind man in John 9. But to those who claim "There isn't any major error in my doctrine/church. And I see just fine", know that you will give account for any error that IS in your doctrine/church, and you'll be unable to claim ignorance.

My recommendation... be quick to admit weakness... repent... and do what some other blind men had to do... cry out UNTIL Jesus hears and heals. Then we too can rejoice greatly. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

noblenut

Junior Member
Nov 29, 2017
265
90
28
#3
if it makes sense then it is prob accurate, if it doesn't then it is just nonsense, and if u are gullible to believe what people say then it is your fault for not checking the text book
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
#4
Jesus said unto them, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." - John 9:41


I was once talking with a group of people who all supported the same "church", so I asked them a simple question. "Have you learned to discern the difference between 'truth' and 'doctrine' ?"

They answered "Uh... Yeah. Why do you think we're in [unnamed church]?"

I said "That's why I'm asking. Have you learned how to recognize the difference between 'Truth' and 'doctrine' in your church?"

They said "What do you mean? We're [unnamed church affiliation]. Our doctrine is right."

I said "Is it perfect... ALL of it... Every little bit?"

They said "Well no, it's not PERFECT. I'm sure there are some small errors somewhere."

I said "And THAT is exactly why I ask the question. I'm not worried about you being deceived by some other group. I'm not even worried about you being deceived by me. Because when you encounter others, you have your guard up. But you trust your own church. And you've already acknowledged that there is a real likelihood of some error being preached there. So if you don't learn how to tell the difference between what is truth and what is being taught, you'll be deceived by your own church."

They basically just looked at me with stunned, fearful expressions as they considered what they'd just learned.

The same danger faces everyone here. We keep our guard up against anyone we consider to be on the outside. But are we able, and I mean TRULY able to discern untruth, mistake or error if it comes from within...ESPECIALLY if coming from within our own person?

One of the greatest obstacles to someone 'seeing' something new or deeper, is when that person says within him-or-herself. "I don't need to learn. I already know. I already see clearly." (Better read 1 Cor. 13:12)

John chapter 9 is about Jesus healing a blind man, while the 'religious' people of the day were incapable of seeing what was truly going on.
In the last verse of the chapter, quoted above, Jesus was trying to tell them the problem. As long as they claimed they 'see', they would remain blind (because of stubbornness) and remain guilty (because of claiming to have clear understanding).

There is error in your church. ( I promise you there is). If you admit that you cannot see it, and cry out to Jesus/God for healing, he can give you miraculous sight just as he did the blind man in John 9. But to those who claim "There isn't any major error in my doctrine/church. And I see just fine", know that you will give account for any error that IS in your doctrine/church, and you'll be unable to claim ignorance.

My recommendation... be quick to admit weakness... repent... and do what some other blind men had to do... cry out UNTIL Jesus hears and heals. Then we too can rejoice greatly. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Very good and accurate assessment you have provided.
I find it amazing how many people on this forum continue defending their perspectives against Word clearly contradicting their views.
It's like a kindergarten approach which takes a scripture or two, and then forming an entire perspective around it.
The proble with this approach is if it denies other scriptures describing the same event, then it denies the Word in whole.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,695
1,097
113
#5
Yes,some put too much trust In doctrine and It’s hampering their walk making It harder than It should be because of their doctrine and they might miss out on some rewards.

The pharisees would knash their teeth If someone got healed on the sabbath rather than be happy that someone was healed.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
9,974
3,624
113
#6
Good points kelby its like people that say the church I belong to to has everything right and every other church is wrong. And it will be some denomination. Or it will be their opinion or interpretation of some doctrine.

But they never say Let God be true and everyone a liar. Or that Jesus always tells the truth.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,357
588
113
#7
Jesus said unto them, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." - John 9:41


I was once talking with a group of people who all supported the same "church", so I asked them a simple question. "Have you learned to discern the difference between 'truth' and 'doctrine' ?"

They answered "Uh... Yeah. Why do you think we're in [unnamed church]?"

I said "That's why I'm asking. Have you learned how to recognize the difference between 'Truth' and 'doctrine' in your church?"

They said "What do you mean? We're [unnamed church affiliation]. Our doctrine is right."

I said "Is it perfect... ALL of it... Every little bit?"

They said "Well no, it's not PERFECT. I'm sure there are some small errors somewhere."

I said "And THAT is exactly why I ask the question. I'm not worried about you being deceived by some other group. I'm not even worried about you being deceived by me. Because when you encounter others, you have your guard up. But you trust your own church. And you've already acknowledged that there is a real likelihood of some error being preached there. So if you don't learn how to tell the difference between what is truth and what is being taught, you'll be deceived by your own church."

They basically just looked at me with stunned, fearful expressions as they considered what they'd just learned.

The same danger faces everyone here. We keep our guard up against anyone we consider to be on the outside. But are we able, and I mean TRULY able to discern untruth, mistake or error if it comes from within...ESPECIALLY if coming from within our own person?

One of the greatest obstacles to someone 'seeing' something new or deeper, is when that person says within him-or-herself. "I don't need to learn. I already know. I already see clearly." (Better read 1 Cor. 13:12)

John chapter 9 is about Jesus healing a blind man, while the 'religious' people of the day were incapable of seeing what was truly going on.
In the last verse of the chapter, quoted above, Jesus was trying to tell them the problem. As long as they claimed they 'see', they would remain blind (because of stubbornness) and remain guilty (because of claiming to have clear understanding).

There is error in your church. ( I promise you there is). If you admit that you cannot see it, and cry out to Jesus/God for healing, he can give you miraculous sight just as he did the blind man in John 9. But to those who claim "There isn't any major error in my doctrine/church. And I see just fine", know that you will give account for any error that IS in your doctrine/church, and you'll be unable to claim ignorance.

My recommendation... be quick to admit weakness... repent... and do what some other blind men had to do... cry out UNTIL Jesus hears and heals. Then we too can rejoice greatly. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The religious leaders of Israel devoted their lives to the study of God's word, but didn't recognize the Messiah when he appeared. Going to synagogue, singing songs, teaching their Bible, but Jesus said to them,

Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering. Lk.11:52

And they're still waiting for the Messiah to come and reign over them and the gentiles. They're really waiting for their King to come and say,

I never knew you Mt.7:23
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,958
1,523
113
#8
Jesus said unto them, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." - John 9:41


I was once talking with a group of people who all supported the same "church", so I asked them a simple question. "Have you learned to discern the difference between 'truth' and 'doctrine' ?"

They answered "Uh... Yeah. Why do you think we're in [unnamed church]?"

I said "That's why I'm asking. Have you learned how to recognize the difference between 'Truth' and 'doctrine' in your church?"

They said "What do you mean? We're [unnamed church affiliation]. Our doctrine is right."

I said "Is it perfect... ALL of it... Every little bit?"

They said "Well no, it's not PERFECT. I'm sure there are some small errors somewhere."

I said "And THAT is exactly why I ask the question. I'm not worried about you being deceived by some other group. I'm not even worried about you being deceived by me. Because when you encounter others, you have your guard up. But you trust your own church. And you've already acknowledged that there is a real likelihood of some error being preached there. So if you don't learn how to tell the difference between what is truth and what is being taught, you'll be deceived by your own church."

They basically just looked at me with stunned, fearful expressions as they considered what they'd just learned.


The same danger faces everyone here. We keep our guard up against anyone we consider to be on the outside. But are we able, and I mean TRULY able to discern untruth, mistake or error if it comes from within...ESPECIALLY if coming from within our own person?

One of the greatest obstacles to someone 'seeing' something new or deeper, is when that person says within him-or-herself. "I don't need to learn. I already know. I already see clearly." (Better read 1 Cor. 13:12)

John chapter 9 is about Jesus healing a blind man, while the 'religious' people of the day were incapable of seeing what was truly going on.
In the last verse of the chapter, quoted above, Jesus was trying to tell them the problem. As long as they claimed they 'see', they would remain blind (because of stubbornness) and remain guilty (because of claiming to have clear understanding).

There is error in your church. ( I promise you there is). If you admit that you cannot see it, and cry out to Jesus/God for healing, he can give you miraculous sight just as he did the blind man in John 9. But to those who claim "There isn't any major error in my doctrine/church. And I see just fine", know that you will give account for any error that IS in your doctrine/church, and you'll be unable to claim ignorance.

My recommendation... be quick to admit weakness... repent... and do what some other blind men had to do... cry out UNTIL Jesus hears and heals. Then we too can rejoice greatly. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Great way to look at it and explain I would offer helping us learn how to discern the difference between 'the truthful' "doctrines of God" apposed to the fasle "doctrines of men" as oral tradition of men. As the Spirit gives us eyes to see, and ears to hear our unseen God perhaps we can understand the mystery more fuller.

The weapons of our warfare are not carnal as if we wrestles against flesh and blood (each other) .We defend the faith and take care of the weapons they protect us. The sword of the spirit is need to rightly divide .There is no armor for our backs .Christ is the rear guard our city of refuge.

We are reminded why Christ has informed us that without parables he spoke not, hiding the unseen spiritual things from natural man that is blind and deaf to things of God.

The wonderful preaching of the gospel as it is written below. His living and abiding word Lovingly commanding us to "give ear" and hear what the Spirit says to the whole world

Deuteronomy 32 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

First thing I see is the direction from which the doctrines of God flow from, apposed from the doctrines of men, it is loosed from above coming down and never earthly after the things seen bound above. One source of faith from the unseen above or that seen the temporal here on earth the god of this world..

In the Deuteronomy parable we are given many metaphors used to see our unseen God or as ears to hear . It is the poetic signified language or tongue of God used to represent the water of the word .In the new testament as that in which husbands are to wash their wives as Christ washes us His bride through His doctrines. Using metaphors rain, dew ,small rain, showers to identify the work of the unseen Spirit of Christ. Therefore giving us eyes to see and ears to hear the eternal things of God.

A man must be born again by the water and the word, as the soul cleansing water or work of the Holy Spirit not seen. The doctrines of God. Many are hid in parables all use the signified language of the "doctrines of God."
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#9
Yes,some put too much trust In doctrine and It’s hampering their walk making It harder than It should be because of their doctrine and they might miss out on some rewards.

The pharisees would knash their teeth If someone got healed on the sabbath rather than be happy that someone was healed.
Matthew 7:28
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

John 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Acts 13:12
Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Corinthians 14:6
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Timothy 1:3
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

1 Timothy 4:6
If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 4:13
Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Timothy 6:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

1 Timothy 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:9

Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Titus 2:7
In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Titus 2:10
Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#10
The point of my last post is Doctrine can be true or false. Thus from the correct sources Doctrine is Truth.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,275
499
83
#11
The point of my last post is Doctrine can be true or false. Thus from the correct sources Doctrine is Truth.
Thanks. I kinda wondered what you were getting at. So do you consider your pastor/priest/church a good source, and trust him/her/it implicitly?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,275
499
83
#12
Hi All,

I partly posted this thread because people need to consider the danger of trusting someone who has been leading us in areas we more or less do admit we are blind... without FIRST finding out whether that person ACTUALLY sees, or just convincingly appears to. (a.k.a. The blind leading the blind)

The other reason I posted it was to highlight that if we only think it is other people who are blind and need to realize it (and not ourselves)...then it is only other people who will benefit from God's word in this area...effectively making the word of God of none effect concerning ourselves. <--that's really not an admirable position.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
4,483
959
113
73
#13
The religious leaders of Israel devoted their lives to the study of God's word, but didn't recognize the Messiah when he appeared. Going to synagogue, singing songs, teaching their Bible, but Jesus said to them,

Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering. Lk.11:52

And they're still waiting for the Messiah to come and reign over them and the gentiles. They're really waiting for their King to come and say,

I never knew you Mt.7:23
They did know the Messiah but they refused to accept him. In Matthew Herod used their knowledge to send his soldiers to Bethlehem
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,499
809
113
#14
if it makes sense then it is prob accurate, if it doesn't then it is just nonsense, and if u are gullible to believe what people say then it is your fault for not checking the text book
There’s a difference between being lazy and being...dull or naive. There’s many things in the Bible that contradict logic. Then there are many, many people who think that they are following the Bible correctly as they read and it was taught. Not everyone is a scholar. Sometimes being a good sheep is following the shepherd. What we need is better shepherds in a lot of cases.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
1,357
588
113
#15
They did know the Messiah but they refused to accept him. In Matthew Herod used their knowledge to send his soldiers to Bethlehem
They knew things about him, but they didn't know him.

You do not know me or my Father Jn.8:39

They knew what he said about their sins was true, but they weren't looking for the Messiah to defeat sin and death, Satan's power.p They wanted a Messiah to defeat their earthly enemies. And there are many within Christian circles who have adopted this kind of thinking.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,695
1,097
113
#16
Matthew 7:28
And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

John 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Acts 13:12
Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Corinthians 14:6
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Corinthians 14:26
How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Colossians 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
1 Timothy 1:3
As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,

1 Timothy 1:10
For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

1 Timothy 4:6
If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 4:13
Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Timothy 6:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

1 Timothy 6:3
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:9

Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Titus 2:7
In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

Titus 2:10
Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 John 1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
Why soo many scriptures,BTW, I was talking about Churches doctrines not the Doctrine of JESUS.
Get It together.LOL
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,357
113
#17
I have been know to say.......

Bugs are smarter than men.....at least they will flock and fly to the light!

Men love darkness at the end of the day, and RANK and FILE, like a herd of Buffalo being run over the cliff, will follow the "HERD" right over the cliff into the flaming pits of hell.....oblivious to their eternal doom the whole way or maybe not even caring......

I had a friend named Ronnie Brake.....he was a lost man and both his dad and I witnessed to him in Walmart when he was dying of Hepatitis C from sharing needles in the 80's....he fired crank and coke on a regular basis and drank 2 cases of beer a day and whiskey to boot.....He weighed about 300 pounds in life and when we seen him and witnessed to him he was around 120 pounds......

He said.......Well, I am going to hell anyway, so I might as well party and get it over with.......he died a few months later.....I know for sure I witnessed to him 2 to 4 times..........tragic!!