Are you a body with a soul, or a soul with a body?
- Thread starter The_Parson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The dead, whether alive in their flesh and blood body or dead in the grave in a spiritual body, DO NOT EVER praise the Lord. They know nothing of 'life', they most likely never have, neither in their natural body nor in their spiritual body. They are those Jesus spoke of here
Luke 9:57And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 58And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. 59And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
On the other hand, those who have come to faith and belief while living, will never die therefore they do not go down to the grave, they follow Him to heaven.
That is how ALL souls live and die in this flesh and blood body, during this age.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
So we either follow Him and continue in LIFE in heaven or we don't and continue on in death in the grave. But whether one of those who never die or one of those who are dead, not one soul will perish or be destroyed or be blotted out until the GWTJ. All will be alive during the millennium, both the living and the dead
On the Lords Day, when Christ returns as KING of kings and LORD or lords, those who followed Him return with Him, and the dead who went down into the grave will rise up when He returns. (except for the dead who remain in the sea and death and grave until the GWTJ).
4229 machah means To wipe, blot out, obliterate as in
Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations You have destroyed the wicked their name You have blotted out forever and ever
Psalm 37
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs, they shall consume into smoke shall they consume away.
Psalm 37
20 But the wicked shall perish and the enemies of Yahweh Like the splendor of the meadows shall vanish into smoke they shall vanish away
as 3615 kalah means To complete, finish, accomplish, consume, destroy and has the idea of completion or bringing something to an end like finishing a task, fulfilling a promise or bringing something to completion. May imply destruction or consumption, in the context of divine judgment or the end of a process. Is used in various contexts, including the completion of work, the end of a period, or the consumption of resources.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15 KJV
As for the lake itself, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Revelation 21:8 KJV
3133 - meros - Part, portion, share, district, member
Don't fear what kills the flesh and blood body because that is not the end, but fear GOD who can kill the body and soul/spirit in the LOF because the 2nd death is the end. Blotted out, smoke going up and becoming a part of the universe but no one will be conscious or suffering in the LOF for all eternity.
What kind of a GOD would create a person, give them the option to choose life or death and then make them suffer for all eternity for not choosing correctly?
Remember by Matt 7 and ask yourself 'what is 'RIGHT AND JUST AND HOLY' to those 'created'? death or torment
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 9:57And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 58And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. 59And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
On the other hand, those who have come to faith and belief while living, will never die therefore they do not go down to the grave, they follow Him to heaven.
That is how ALL souls live and die in this flesh and blood body, during this age.
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
So we either follow Him and continue in LIFE in heaven or we don't and continue on in death in the grave. But whether one of those who never die or one of those who are dead, not one soul will perish or be destroyed or be blotted out until the GWTJ. All will be alive during the millennium, both the living and the dead
On the Lords Day, when Christ returns as KING of kings and LORD or lords, those who followed Him return with Him, and the dead who went down into the grave will rise up when He returns. (except for the dead who remain in the sea and death and grave until the GWTJ).
4229 machah means To wipe, blot out, obliterate as in
Psalm 9:5 You have rebuked the nations You have destroyed the wicked their name You have blotted out forever and ever
Psalm 37
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs, they shall consume into smoke shall they consume away.
Psalm 37
20 But the wicked shall perish and the enemies of Yahweh Like the splendor of the meadows shall vanish into smoke they shall vanish away
as 3615 kalah means To complete, finish, accomplish, consume, destroy and has the idea of completion or bringing something to an end like finishing a task, fulfilling a promise or bringing something to completion. May imply destruction or consumption, in the context of divine judgment or the end of a process. Is used in various contexts, including the completion of work, the end of a period, or the consumption of resources.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15 KJV
As for the lake itself, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Revelation 21:8 KJV
3133 - meros - Part, portion, share, district, member
Don't fear what kills the flesh and blood body because that is not the end, but fear GOD who can kill the body and soul/spirit in the LOF because the 2nd death is the end. Blotted out, smoke going up and becoming a part of the universe but no one will be conscious or suffering in the LOF for all eternity.
What kind of a GOD would create a person, give them the option to choose life or death and then make them suffer for all eternity for not choosing correctly?
Remember by Matt 7 and ask yourself 'what is 'RIGHT AND JUST AND HOLY' to those 'created'? death or torment
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Soul has a few definitions.
1: The word soul is an old English term that could be used in place of the word "person" or "human being". Basically if you had a soul you could be called a soul.
2: The word soul can be a reference to the human body.
3: The word soul is also the spiritual part of human beings (it's moral and emotional aspect), and survives death and will wait for a physical body to inhabit again at the resurrection.
1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here we have all the parts that comprise a whole person:
body
soul
spirit
The soul above is definition 3.
1Pe_3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Here soul is speaking of all three, body soul and spirit together as a complete person. This would be a soul as in definition 1 and 2.
Human beings have a soul and a spirit and a body. Colloquially a person is a "soul" but a different type of soul than the soul within us.
1: The word soul is an old English term that could be used in place of the word "person" or "human being". Basically if you had a soul you could be called a soul.
2: The word soul can be a reference to the human body.
3: The word soul is also the spiritual part of human beings (it's moral and emotional aspect), and survives death and will wait for a physical body to inhabit again at the resurrection.
1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here we have all the parts that comprise a whole person:
body
soul
spirit
The soul above is definition 3.
1Pe_3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Here soul is speaking of all three, body soul and spirit together as a complete person. This would be a soul as in definition 1 and 2.
Human beings have a soul and a spirit and a body. Colloquially a person is a "soul" but a different type of soul than the soul within us.
As in death and dying BEFORE the Savior came and brought forth the New Covenant. How was it different after?
Galatians 3 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Before the New Covenant aka under the Old Covenant which was to soon experience 'it's last day'
John 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. 24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Who was dead at that time? Those in the grave for 'the penalty of sin is death' but He led the captivity captive when He ascended on high. The resurrection had come, the New Covenant begun when He died and went to the place of the 'though he were dead'. Christ would be THE FIRST to resurrect OUT FROM the place of the dead but certainly not the first to be taken to heaven, rise...Enoch, etc.
Heb 11 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Having faith and belief while you live means you never die and if you never die you can not be one of the dead who rise at His return, right?
yet just as Christ spoke in John 5, these are dead by the way man speaks, but alive by the way God speaks:
Revelation 6:9-11
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both [the number of] their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they [were,] was completed.
Scripture speaks of death in more than one way, saying, whoever believes will never die, and tho they die... - and you were dead in your trespasses... - so when it speaks of those being dead, that they do not know, and they do not praise Him, don't we find such people every day still outside of their graves? 
The question that needs to be asked is "what is the difference between the NOW IS resurrection that took place 'when the graves were opened' at that time and the hour that is coming, when He returns for the Lords Day.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself; 27And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Matt 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
When Christ returns 'the dead and the dead in Christ' will have their graves opened and will rise and the Lords Day will begin.
At the end of the Lords Day, when those dead will come to judgment, some of their names being found in the book of life thereby 'coming to life' after 1000 years, then what happens? Then the resurrection of damnation will take place...the 2nd death, the lake of fire, written like this
Rev 20:11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The New Covenant comes in - those who were held captive by death because of the penalty of the law of sin and death, HEAR HIS VOICE and 'follow Him' who conquered death, Him being the first fruits of them that slept
Those who came to faith UNDER the New Covenant became those who 'never died' and 'followed Him' and those we are not to sorrow over as they will be returning with Him...
Those who die under the New Covenant who don't come to faith, don't go from death to life while living become the dead who don't rise until His return.
Is there any Scripture that would contradict any of that? If so, please share.
So people say. It is certainly read in many places where it does not exist... If you are trying to say that sin separates
people from God I agree. And sin results in death. Literal death. That is separation from God because God is life. The
first death is temporary if you have been born twice. Those born but once die a second permanent irreversible death.
people from God I agree. And sin results in death. Literal death. That is separation from God because God is life. The
first death is temporary if you have been born twice. Those born but once die a second permanent irreversible death.
There is life after death..
Never die when Jesus gives us eternal life... He gives that life eternal when He returns and raises the dead.
Are you saying we are immortal.
1Co 15:21-23
21 For since by man came death, by man also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
ALL DIE.... AFTERWARD the resurrection.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
We all die (exception of those alive when He comes) in this world but by faith in Jesus we have a better place prepared. We have eternal life waiting for us.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Asleep....koimaō G2749
Strong's Definition: From G2749; to put to sleep, that is, (passively or reflexively) to slumber ; figuratively to decease: - (be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep, be dead.
1Th 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The resurrection has not happened
Those dead in Christ are waiting for the day, but they know nothing.
Never die when Jesus gives us eternal life... He gives that life eternal when He returns and raises the dead.
Are you saying we are immortal.
1Co 15:21-23
21 For since by man came death, by man also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
ALL DIE.... AFTERWARD the resurrection.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
We all die (exception of those alive when He comes) in this world but by faith in Jesus we have a better place prepared. We have eternal life waiting for us.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Phi 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Asleep....koimaō G2749
Strong's Definition: From G2749; to put to sleep, that is, (passively or reflexively) to slumber ; figuratively to decease: - (be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep, be dead.
1Th 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The resurrection has not happened
Those dead in Christ are waiting for the day, but they know nothing.
-
1
- Show all
The new age teachings have clearly become part of this doctrine for many.
Where does the bible say the soul is immortal.?
Death = death, to not live, to be unresponsive, to no longer live, the end of life, characterized by lack of activity.
All the definitions state that death or to be dead is to be without life.
No life..
Yet people are pushing this concept that death is only physical or the a spirit continues to live.
We die in this world because of sin.
But Jesus promises life to those that believe.
1Co 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Where does the bible say the soul is immortal.?
Death = death, to not live, to be unresponsive, to no longer live, the end of life, characterized by lack of activity.
All the definitions state that death or to be dead is to be without life.
No life..
Yet people are pushing this concept that death is only physical or the a spirit continues to live.
We die in this world because of sin.
But Jesus promises life to those that believe.
1Co 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
-
1
- Show all