Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Are you a Trinitarian, and can you defend the doctrine?

  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, and I can defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 23 69.7%
  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, but I cannot defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 1 3.0%
  • No, I deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

    Votes: 7 21.2%
  • I don't know if the Trinity is true or false.

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Total voters
    33

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
928
459
63
Where was 1 and 2 Peter written?

I don't believe Roman Catholic claims by default. I examine them.

For instance, they claim that they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. This is not true. The vast majority of Christians were not observing Saturday after AD130 and this is a historical fact. It related to the persecution of Christians by Jews following the conflicts of the Jews with the Romans in AD66-70, and AD135. Christians did not support these rebellions against Rome, and as a result the Jews hated them and banned them from the synagogues.

Before that they were attending synagogue and hearing the OT Scriptures read, and meeting on their own on different days such as Sunday. After the Jewish persecution, they started meeting on Sundays exclusively, more or less.

Rome didn't even exist then as the controlling organization it later became.

So many anti-Roman Catholic sources distort history to claim other things, and the Simon Magus legend is from the same origin. Magus may have formed Gnostic forms of Christianity, but he wasn't the first pope.
I can't figure how any church founded on Jesus would torture and murder anybody for refusing to admit a cracker is Jesus .. Or that Mary will get you killed unless it is counterfit .. I doubt Simon bar Jonah or Paul would ever teach anything like that ..
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,879
1,609
113
I can't figure how any church founded on Jesus would torture and murder anybody for refusing to admit a cracker is Jesus .. Or that Mary will get you killed unless it is counterfit .. I doubt Simon bar Jonah or Paul would ever teach anything like that ..
How is this relevant to me? I believe that the Roman Catholic church is apostate and has false doctrines. However, it was originally a part of the true church. I don't believe the Simon Magus fairy tales, though. It's mostly claims that other heretics, like Judaizers, use to discredit both Roman Catholicism and evangelical Christianity.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
928
459
63
A bible verse confusing?! try Trinity.
Here ya go .. Let this sink in
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
928
459
63
How is this relevant to me? I believe that the Roman Catholic church is apostate and has false doctrines. However, it was originally a part of the true church. I don't believe the Simon Magus fairy tales, though. It's mostly claims that other heretics, like Judaizers, use to discredit both Roman Catholicism and evangelical Christianity.
Ha, I don't care much what anybody says about me .. I thought I was replying to a post of yours , sorry .. I'd at least find what Pius XXII had to say .. Intriguing for sure ..
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Here ya go .. Let this sink in
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
This is true, what i don't see here is the trinity. God creates by manifesting into....
So the word of God who is God became the universe as much as it became Jesus.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,879
1,609
113
I can't figure how any church founded on Jesus would torture and murder anybody for refusing to admit a cracker is Jesus .. Or that Mary will get you killed unless it is counterfit .. I doubt Simon bar Jonah or Paul would ever teach anything like that ..
By the way, Wikipedia has a decent article on Simon Magus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Magus

You will find that legends are the basis for claims about Simon Magus, and we shouldn't form our beliefs based on legends.

In the past, I followed the teachings of a man who used legends like this to form the belief system of the cult. I don't recommend listening to nuts like him.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
928
459
63
By the way, Wikipedia has a decent article on Simon Magus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Magus

You will find that legends are the basis for claims about Simon Magus, and we shouldn't form our beliefs based on legends.

In the past, I followed the teachings of a man who used legends like this to form the belief system of the cult. I don't recommend listening to nuts like him.
You claim knowledge of the RCC .. You should know something is bad wrong .. Not with the regular Catholics there's some great folks but the RCC hierarchy ..
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
928
459
63
This is true, what i don't see here is the trinity. God creates by manifesting into....
So the word of God who is God became the universe as much as it became Jesus.
Maybe that's your problem, you don't see because you don't want to see .. Or God has blinded you for some reason .. That's why I say ''you don't have to understand it, just don't teach against it''..
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Maybe that's your problem, you don't see because you don't want to see .. Or God has blinded you for some reason .. That's why I say ''you don't have to understand it, just don't teach against it''..
Teach against what? Trinity?!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
And Thomas got it right when he saw the prints of the nails in His hands :p
Thomas's time came and went, now:

2 Cor 5:16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
928
459
63
Thomas's time came and went, now:

2 Cor 5:16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
Your confession has become your own spiritual stronghold
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,879
1,609
113
You claim knowledge of the RCC .. You should know something is bad wrong .. Not with the regular Catholics there's some great folks but the RCC hierarchy ..
You seem to have an inability to comprehend my remarks.

I called the Roman Catholic Church apostate. Do you know what that means?

If not, look it up.

So, while realizing that Roman Catholicism is apostate Christianity, it doesn't necessarily mean that Simon Magus is the founder of it. In fact, the chances of that are virtually NIL. Rome was one of the bishoprics of the true church, and it went off track.

To add more to this, some cults who make such claims join with Roman Catholics in denying justification by faith alone.

That is one thing I found bizarre about the Armstrongite cult I belonged to. While criticizing Roman Catholics, they also denied core Christian teachings such as justification by faith alone. They shared this characteristic with the Roman Catholic Church.

So, please take the time to read and understand my words. While I don't believe the idiotic claims about Simon Magus, I am not denying the apostate nature of Roman Catholicism.

The Simon Magus stuff is the kind of things conspiracy theorists read on the toilet seat and believe is true. It's National Enquirer level of propaganda.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,879
1,609
113
Yahweh*

God is a title not a name
The one God is named Yahweh. That is his covenant-name. Ehyeh is similar. Yahweh means "He be" and Ehyeh means "I am". They are related.

However, there's only one God so it doesn't matter if God is a title or a name.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
2,879
1,609
113
Ha, I don't care much what anybody says about me .. I thought I was replying to a post of yours , sorry .. I'd at least find what Pius XXII had to say .. Intriguing for sure ..
I don't think all the words of every Pope are true, or the words of Roman Catholic officials. I gave one example - the Roman Catholics claim credit for changing Sabbath to Sunday, which is not true.

The early church was already meeting on other days, but they would attend on Sabbath as well sometimes (at least the Jewish members) to listen to Scriptures read. Scrolls of the Bible were not easily available to Christians, so meeting with Jews in Synagogue was handy for them. That worked out until after 67 AD when persecution from Jews against Christianity became much worse.

Jewish Christians were viewed as traitors because they left Jerusalem prior to the Fall in AD70. Additionally, because they refused to claim Simon Bar Kokvba was the Messiah in 135 AD, they were also heavily persecuted by the Jews.

This began the separation of the Church from any association with the Jewish population.