Are You Believing a Heresy? You Might According to a New Study

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
Where? is it part of the new heaven or new earth?
The current location seems to work just fine. Where is it now? (hint: the realm of the dead)
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
In OUTER DARKNESS. Presumably that is outside space and therefore outside the New Heaves and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousnesss".
That's an interesting response. It reminded me of the reference in Jude about wandering stars.
Compare these passages about "blackest darkness". Most disturbing is Job.
Where is "ore" searched for? What blackest darkness is he referring to? (the realm of the dead)

Job 28:3
Mortals put an end to the darkness; they search out the farthest recesses for ore in the blackest darkness.

2 Peter 2:17
These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them.

Jude 1:13
They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
10/17/2018 " How well do Christians really understand biblical doctrine about their faith?
Ligonier Ministries released its third study on the State of Theology in the United States conducted by LifeWay Research.
They asked 3,000 Americans what they believe about "God, salvation, ethics, and the Bible" and discovered several alarming heresies that some Christians say they believe.
"One of the most striking findings is that Americans continue to fail to grasp that God is holy," Ligonier said in a statement.
A whopping 69 percent of Americans disagree with the idea that "Even the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation," a doctrine clearly outlined in the Bible.
It turns out that evangelical Christians also have a hard time believing what the Bible says about man's sinful nature. This is demonstrated by the fact that 52 percent of evangelicals agree that everyone sins a little, "but most people are good by nature." "
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018...g-a-heresy-you-might-according-to-a-new-study

30 thousand member congregations at so called mega-churches that never hear the speaker at the pulpit talk about sin and repentance I think leads to this false understanding. Very troubling times but it is all part of God's plan. And it will arrive at a glorious conclusion in his due time. That's the one thing that makes the things happening in this world bearable I think. That and not watching the worldly news but reading Christian news sites instead.
Though from time to time happening on One America News isn't a bad thing. The one true unbiased news site broadcast in America. Thank God.
I suppose I should post something in specific response to the OP.
I wonder about the bias built into the study.

For instance, what is the context of the question: "Even the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation"?
Why is the question focused on an INDIVIDUAL sin instead of on sin as a singular thing. A result of the Fall.
Is this not an attack on eternal security? Does the study assume that OSAS is a heresy?
Rather than an optional view held by many Christians.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
I suppose I should post something in specific response to the OP.
I wonder about the bias built into the study.

For instance, what is the context of the question: "Even the smallest sin deserves eternal damnation"?
Why is the question focused on an INDIVIDUAL sin instead of on sin as a singular thing. A result of the Fall.
Is this not an attack on eternal security? Does the study assume that OSAS is a heresy?
Rather than an optional view held by many Christians.
Good points. :) As we've mentioned pages back, what really is "heresy"? At one time we who are Protestant today and out in the open were not so blessed. We were deemed "Heretic". And very often we were tortured and then killed for not believing as was thought to be the one way to hold faith.
Sounds familiar doesn't it? They killed our Lord for the same thing. He was deemed Blasphemer and even Seditionist, though Pilate could find no guilt in him. And yet, he was killed.
People often kill what they fear. That way "it" doesn't remind them their faith is weak because they are afraid.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
I think God wants us to obey the laws that we can, but we won't be condemned if we don't.
As far as Judas Iscariot, he had been sinning earlier by stealing money, so he was not a good person that deserved salvation. God forgives only those sins that we don't want to commit, and try to stop them to the best of our ability. Judas evidently had no desire to stop stealing. Jesus obviously knew about the thefts, but kept quiet, knowing what was needed of Judas in the future.
That's a very interesting position you have there concerning sin and salvation.

Do you live by it?
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
Good points. :) As we've mentioned pages back, what really is "heresy"? At one time we who are Protestant today and out in the open were not so blessed. We were deemed "Heretic". And very often we were tortured and then killed for not believing as was thought to be the one way to hold faith.
Sounds familiar doesn't it? They killed our Lord for the same thing. He was deemed Blasphemer and even Seditionist, though Pilate could find no guilt in him. And yet, he was killed.
People often kill what they fear. That way "it" doesn't remind them their faith is weak because they are afraid.
Thanks.
I haven't really looked into it, but do you thing the research and findings were skewed by a bias of some sort?
I agree with the findings in general, but the specifics mentioned seemed a bit off to me.
But then I'm a bit of a heretic myself.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
Not only that,but it is actually important that the sabboth be broken,in that in tje OT sabboth was practically the most severe of all laws.
( you break it....you die...period)
Jesus went about breaking their sabboth,and they hated him for it.
Jesus taught them a lesson that the elders of the temple overshadowed with their hunger for power. Jesus did not condemn the Sabbath. Jesus did not say the Sabbath must not be remembered and kept holy.
Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath, and is Lord of the Sabbath that was made by him for man. That we remember the Sabbath , rest, and keep that a sacred day.
How is it wrong to take a day of a week and , as Jesus exampled, let that time be between us and God.
How can we think to take issue one with another if one of us observes Sabbath.


The Bereans "received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so" (Acts 17:10-11)

Excerpted from SABBATH MEANING Article
The name Sabbath in the Bible


Sabbath is the name of the last day of the week (Exodus 20:8). The Oxford Companion to the Bible notes that only this day is named while the rest of the days of the week are only numbered. In the Greek New Testament, the name Sabbath is spelled σαββατον, sabbaton. In Greek this word may also mean "week" (Matthew 28:1, Luke 18:2), and although this double function may seem a touch odd to native speakers of English, it also happens in other languages (for instance the modern Serbian word nedelja means both Sunday and week).
The Sabbath probably had several separate functions. The Sabbath is generally considered to have as primary function to provide people with some respite, but that's obviously too simple an explanation. Nature doesn't have Sabbaths and only lifestyles that allows planning and storing allows interruption of one's daily routine (it would exclude hunter-gatherers and herd-following nomads). A Sabbath is not for rest in general, it is rest from the commercial cycle, and although there is nothing wrong with commerce per se, commerce might prove to be quite intoxicating if one doesn't distantiate from it every seventh day (or every seventh year in case of a Sabbath Year; also see our article on Jubilee).
On the Sabbath, people had the opportunity to converse with others and take strolls or observe creation. It's not explicitly stated, but it would come as no surprise if most collective ideas, joys and offspring were conceived of on Sabbaths.
This Hebrew word is used 68 times in the Greek New Testament; SEE FULL NEW TESTAMENT CONCORDANCE.
Etymology of the name Sabbath

The name Sabbath has to do with the verb שבת (shabat), meaning to cease or to rest:
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
Right. Eternal punishment is just as eternal as eternal life. Same NT Greek word.

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
How would you, or anyone who would like to address my question, defend that Matthew verse in light of Solomon's words in Ecclesiastes 12:7?
“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
How would you, or anyone who would like to address my question, defend that Matthew verse in light of Solomon's words in Ecclesiastes 12:7?
“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
Well, let's see.
One is in the old covenant and the other is in the new covenant.
One is poetry, the other is the gospel.
One is a quote of Christ, and the other is the musings of a king.
Right, pretty tough to defend.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
Well, let's see.
One is in the old covenant and the other is in the new covenant.
One is poetry, the other is the gospel.
One is a quote of Christ, and the other is the musings of a king.
Right, pretty tough to defend.
The Ecclesiastes verse is old testament inspired scripture. Not the musings of a king.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
The Ecclesiastes verse is old testament inspired scripture. Not the musings of a king.
So you get your doctrine from a poetry book?
Ecclesiastes says the dead know nothing. Do you believe that?
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
So you get your doctrine from a poetry book?
Ecclesiastes says the dead know nothing. Do you believe that?
The Bible is a poetry book?

Are you the cousin of Unctus? They joined on Friday and you joined on Thursday.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
The Bible is a poetry book?

Are you the cousin of Unctus? They joined on Friday and you joined on Thursday.
I do not know Unctus, nor endorse anything they write.

Ecclesiastes is a poetry book. There is a whole section of poetry books in the Bible.
Namely: Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and the Songs of Solomon.
Hopefully you already knew that.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
I do not know Unctus, nor endorse anything they write.

Ecclesiastes is a poetry book. There is a whole section of poetry books in the Bible.
Namely: Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and the Songs of Solomon.
Hopefully you already knew that.
:giggle:

You should have read more of the article at Bible.org
https://bible.org/seriespage/5-poetical-books
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
1,562
543
113
Are you claiming that no one goes to hell based on a verse in Ecclesiastes?

Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
Sure, that's what my post that you quoted prior to asking that question said. Of course. Who can miss that?
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,973
113
for those who claim that King David's 'musings' were un-inspired - drink some milk'...
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
for those who claim that King David's 'musings' were un-inspired - drink some milk'...
I didn't claim they were uninspired. I pointed out that they were poetry.
And a poetry book is probably not the best place to go for doctrine.
 

Sketch

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2018
1,278
300
83
Here's a great example of what is happening here in reference to harassment.
I know, I know, they are just thumbs.

Laish just gave me 20 Thumbs down votes and a disagree all in a row. No other posts in between.
If that's not harassment, I don't know what is. Not even enough time to read the posts in between votes.

Quite the welcome wagon here. Would you treat me like this if I visited your church?
Well, guess what, this is the church.