Are you preterist or merely 'modified post-trib'?

[abcdef]

I think this needs some further consideration:


1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

In v 54, it talks about this occurring when the mortal puts on the immortal.

This would be when we get new "bodies" for our souls at the resurrection, we will be like Him.

And we will see death no longer, Rev 20:14-15, 1 Cor 15:26

1 Cor 15:56 KJV The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

If the law has been removed with the termination of the Old covenant, then it follows that the strength of sin has been removed

The strength of sin is to separate men from God.

Jesus proved the cleansing power of His blood over sin at the 1st resurrection.

But we still sin, 1 Jn 1:10.

So the strength of sin over the Christian in an eternal sense is broken,

But at this present time we are still in the flesh state.

The veil was rent from top to bottom,

But we must enter the eternal realm to literally enter the heavenly temple and see His face.

and therefore the sting of death has been removed.

There will be no more sting when death is gone, eternally.

For now, we are still in pain in our hearts for our loved ones.

So would this not place the removal of the sting of death to have occurred at the time of the passing of the Old Covenant?

The strength/power of sin, yes, in an eternal sense.

But death is still with us and will be until the 2nd resurrection.

 

[Locutus]

"There will be no more sting when death is gone, eternally."

The sting is tied to the law - do you think the old covenant is still in effect?

 

[abcdef]

"There will be no more sting when death is gone, eternally."

The sting is tied to the law - do you think the old covenant is still in effect?

The old covenant is passed away, dead.

Now we are under the Covenant of Jesus' blood.

But even this new covenant involves sin and the result of sin.

Sin is still with us 1 Jn 1:10

The Law of Moses is gone.

And we have freedom in Christ to not sin, to overcome sin,

But as long as we have sin we will have death, and it's painful sting.

When the mortal puts on the immortal, is when the sting of death is ended, v 54.

 

[Locutus]

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

So what you are effectively saying Mr. Alphabet is the sting of death has been replaced with a new ministration of death in the new covenant and the law of Christ.

 

[abcdef]

2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

So what you are effectively saying Mr. Alphabet is the sting of death has been replaced with a new ministration of death in the new covenant and the law of Christ.

The sting of death is ended when the mortal puts on the immortal 1 Cor 15:54-55.

The power of death under the Law of Moses is ended with Jesus.

Ro 6:14, "...ye are not under the law, but under grace."

The covenant of grace, still involves sin, sin is not ended until death is destroyed.

--

Do you believe that grace is law?

That there is no law at all?

That you can curse the Holy Spirit and deny Jesus, and that the spoken words of God can be undone? Matt 10:32-33?

Ex 33:20, "And He said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me and live." Still true?

 

[Locutus]

The power of death under the Law of Moses is ended with Jesus.

Are you saying the Mosaic Law ended with Jesus?

How so?

It was still active when Hebrews was written.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

And what does the "power of death" even mean?

 

[abcdef]

Are you saying the Mosaic Law ended with Jesus?

How so?

It was still active when Hebrews was written.

Heb 10:8-10

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Heb 7:11-12

And what does the "power of death" even mean?

Power of sin is to separate us from God.

Let's get back on topic.

---

Was every prophecy in the Bible fulfilled by 70 ad?

 

[Locutus]

The power of death under the Law of Moses is ended with Jesus.

Power of sin is to separate us from God.

All part of the same topic.

The "power of sin" was the law:

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

So if this "strength" of sin was due to the law (and that ended) how can sin have any power left?

What you've done is shift the strength of sin into the new covenant where it does not belong:

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[abcdef]

All part of the same topic.

The "power of sin" was the law:

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

So if this "strength" of sin was due to the law (and that ended) how can sin have any power left?

What you've done is shift the strength of sin into the new covenant where it does not belong:

Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Are you saying that there is no more sin?

That we are sinless?

That we cannot sin?

Heb 10:26-31

 

[Locutus]

Not saying Christians can't sin - I'm saying the power/strength of sin is gone, therefore death is defeated.

 

[abcdef]

So was everything in Bible prophecy completed by 70 ad ?

 

[Locutus]

I'm saying according to Paul death was defeated by the end of the old covenant age.

 

[abcdef]

I'm saying according to Paul death was defeated by the end of the old covenant age.

1 Cor 15:26, "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

 

[Locutus]

And it was destroyed - you are thinking that physical death was the enemy, when it reality it is the death that Adam underwent in the day he sinned when he "ate of the tree of knowledge good and evil".

Physical death is not the enemy and never was. After the old covenant ended physical death for the Christian is victory.

 

[abcdef]

And it was destroyed - you are thinking that physical death was the enemy, when it reality it is the death that Adam underwent in the day he sinned when he "ate of the tree of knowledge good and evil".

Physical death is not the enemy and never was. After the old covenant ended physical death for the Christian is victory.

Spiritual death is destroyed Rev 20:14-15, after the Rev 20:12-13 judgement.

Physical death is ended when heaven and earth fly away in Rev 20:11, at the judgement, after the fire from heaven v 9.

 

[Locutus]

You've already stated that the resurrection is when:

1 Cor 15:53....and this mortal must put on immortality.

So do the unrighteous get to put on immortality?

You've hit a contradiction.

 

[abcdef]

You've already stated that the resurrection is when:

1 Cor 15:53....and this mortal must put on immortality.

So do the unrighteous get to put on immortality?

You've hit a contradiction.

The soul is immortal, eternal, saved or not saved.

One eternal state of being is with God and His love.

The other eternal state of being is without God's love

 

[Locutus]

The soul is not immortal - lets look at this using Paul's theology:

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Paul is clearly not speaking of physical death otherwise he wouldn't be around to write to the Romans.

Sin which had the "strength of the law" "killed" him. That was the Mosaic Law that passed away according to Hebrews.

So while not a reality for him he is proclaiming that when the Law of Moses was finished "death" through the law would be swallowed up in victory.

1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Locutus]

I like a lot of things you say, but I have to point out that saying "The soul is not immortal" would be equivalent to saying that the soul is not not mortal", or the soul is mortal.

I agree that Paul is speaking of spiritual death, but I am not convinced that we can understand spiritual death in the same manner as we understand physical death. If a soul can "live" or exist forever in a state of spiritual death, then we are dealing with something totally different.

Good to see you posting TL.

"Spiritual death" is separation from God in this life, you could say being spiritually dead as Christ called them:

Mat 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

The Israelites when they were cut off when they sinned thought of it as being dead, in the Jewish mind being in exile from the Land or separation from the temple considered themselves dead:

Ezek 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

Ezek 37:11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Ezek 37:12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

How the soul survives death I can't say for sure TL - but to say because it does does not necessary mean its immortal.

1 Tim 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

I believe the concept of the immortal soul is from pagan sources.

 

[abcdef]

The soul is not immortal - lets look at this using Paul's theology:

Matt 25:46

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Paul is clearly not speaking of physical death otherwise he wouldn't be around to write to the Romans.

Sin which had the "strength of the law" "killed" him. That was the Mosaic Law that passed away according to Hebrews.

So while not a reality for him he is proclaiming that when the Law of Moses was finished "death" through the law would be swallowed up in victory.

1 Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

There was death before the Law of Moses, spiritual and physical,

And death after the Law of Moses ended to this present day, spiritual and physical.

The final victory is after death is destroyed, Rev 20:14-15, not before.