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Predestination to His Salvation is not to all. That was shown in John 17 by our Lord's Prayer before He was delivered up.
John 17:6
6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word.
KJV
Jesus was talking about His Apostles and disciples at His first coming. They had belonged to The Father beforehand, and The Father gave them to Jesus.
John 17:14-18
14 I have given them Thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
KJV
The idea of being 'sent' is specifically what the meaning of the word apostle is about.
Here's comes a dividing line between His sent ones, and others that would believe through their preaching of The Gospel:
John 17:20-21
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
KJV
Not only did Jesus pray for His elect 'sent' ones which The Father owned beforehand and gave Him, but also... for those who would come to believe on Him through their word (preaching of The Gospel). And that purpose being that all in Christ Jesus might become one in Him and The Father.
By that we see the second group, those who would believe by the preaching of His 'sent' ones, were NOT predestined, owned beforehand, by The Father. For many are called, but few are chosen, like our Lord Jesus said.
This solves any mystery about predestination of Christ's elect servants. Predestination does not apply to all that have believed on Him. But those who believe by His 'sent' ones become PART of their elect status, which is why Apostle Paul would preach that all who have believed are part of the foundation ordained before the world began per Ephesians 2, etc.
John 17:6
6 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy word.
KJV
Jesus was talking about His Apostles and disciples at His first coming. They had belonged to The Father beforehand, and The Father gave them to Jesus.
John 17:14-18
14 I have given them Thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy word is truth.
18 As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
KJV
The idea of being 'sent' is specifically what the meaning of the word apostle is about.
Here's comes a dividing line between His sent ones, and others that would believe through their preaching of The Gospel:
John 17:20-21
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.
KJV
Not only did Jesus pray for His elect 'sent' ones which The Father owned beforehand and gave Him, but also... for those who would come to believe on Him through their word (preaching of The Gospel). And that purpose being that all in Christ Jesus might become one in Him and The Father.
By that we see the second group, those who would believe by the preaching of His 'sent' ones, were NOT predestined, owned beforehand, by The Father. For many are called, but few are chosen, like our Lord Jesus said.
This solves any mystery about predestination of Christ's elect servants. Predestination does not apply to all that have believed on Him. But those who believe by His 'sent' ones become PART of their elect status, which is why Apostle Paul would preach that all who have believed are part of the foundation ordained before the world began per Ephesians 2, etc.
E
I am taking the calvanist side.
Dude, get over yourself. You are going way off the deep end..
I am not taking anyones side,
It is not a calvanist vs Arminian debate..
as for your arrogant remark. I am not a calvanist, Go to any calvanist thread, You will see me speaking against their theology.. (oh wait that's right. You can't see anything but what you want to believe, forgive me)
Dude, get over yourself. You are going way off the deep end..
I am not taking anyones side,
It is not a calvanist vs Arminian debate..
as for your arrogant remark. I am not a calvanist, Go to any calvanist thread, You will see me speaking against their theology.. (oh wait that's right. You can't see anything but what you want to believe, forgive me)
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I am going to correct myself. After investigation it appears I am a CalvoArmen
I think EG is a ArmenCalvo.
What this means is I lean towards calvanism in salvation start, and Armenism in terms of eternal security.
EG appears to have armenian views on salvation, but calvanist views in terms of eternal security.
Not suprisingly this creates problems in discussion.
I for one have an issue with total depravity in terms of how you define original sin.
One thing I do like is by defining the sub groups or ideas you can see where you stand and why.
Now I am sure I will be accused of lying, but I am expressing my view of things expressed. I hope it is helpful.
I have no ill will here, but I do resent continual bombardment of stupid comments.
I think EG is a ArmenCalvo.
What this means is I lean towards calvanism in salvation start, and Armenism in terms of eternal security.
EG appears to have armenian views on salvation, but calvanist views in terms of eternal security.
Not suprisingly this creates problems in discussion.
I for one have an issue with total depravity in terms of how you define original sin.
One thing I do like is by defining the sub groups or ideas you can see where you stand and why.
Now I am sure I will be accused of lying, but I am expressing my view of things expressed. I hope it is helpful.
I have no ill will here, but I do resent continual bombardment of stupid comments.
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Sorry guys but EG has a thing about me, and will now post 100's of repeated items.
I have already said sorry for upsetting him, but he is too proud to admit he has got upset and now wants to break me.
I am not sure which gospel he is following it is not Jesus's gospel.
But bless him, he is blind, deaf and dumb to Gods word.
I have already said sorry for upsetting him, but he is too proud to admit he has got upset and now wants to break me.
I am not sure which gospel he is following it is not Jesus's gospel.
But bless him, he is blind, deaf and dumb to Gods word.
E
See,
I am not mad because you upset me. I am asking you to confess your sin..so you continue you lies and false witness against me.
Why is it so hard for you to be humble? You can't even do this as a righteous man would..
More attack like the Pharisee did, Keep it up my friend.. Keep it up.
Ok. Now you just proved you have no Christlikeness..
I doubt you will be here much longer. especially after this, this is a BIG NO NO on Christian chat, if yuo do not at least get warned, I will be surprised.
But still there is hope though. You can still repent. and admit you have sinned. and bore false witness.
If you were not so proud and called other to stop doing these things to you. I would not be so hard on you. But you did this to my brothers and sisters. Now you will be forced to practice what you preach.
E
Do you even know what false witness is?? Are you that far gone that you can not comprehend what a sin is?
You said I demanded you be calvanist. That was a lie
You said I demanded you confess sins you never commited. Tat was a lie
You said I condemned you unless you became a dispensationalist.
Those are lies. they are bearing false witness. According the the law of God. that is a sin. God said to confess our sins to others, for they give us good health.
You go around telling everyone to believe in you. and follow you. yet you will not even confess your sin..
How old are you?? No, I mean it,,,,,,,,,,,,
I was going to say something else. But I will not lower myself to your standard anymore..
You said I demanded you be calvanist. That was a lie
You said I demanded you confess sins you never commited. Tat was a lie
You said I condemned you unless you became a dispensationalist.
Those are lies. they are bearing false witness. According the the law of God. that is a sin. God said to confess our sins to others, for they give us good health.
You go around telling everyone to believe in you. and follow you. yet you will not even confess your sin..
How old are you?? No, I mean it,,,,,,,,,,,,
I was going to say something else. But I will not lower myself to your standard anymore..
