Arminianism D.A.I.S.Y.

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Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#1
Arminianism actually developed from an attempt to defend Calvinism. Joseph Arminius studied in Calvin’s theological school and was troubled by people attacking what would later be known as Reformed theology. He set out to study Scripture to rebuff those attacks. He was surprised to find his reading of the Bible did not match his Calvinist theology, so he began to develop a theological frame work of his own.

After his death, his followers, the Remonstrants, developed and published five points to serve as the basis for their theology. It was in response to these five points that the Calvinist Synod of Dort developed what became the Calvinism TULIP.

It was not until John Wesley began his preaching ministry during the Great Awakening that Arminian theology was fully developed and began to have a truly mass appeal. Through out history, most Baptists had been Calvinistic in their theology. However, from the time of Wesley forward Baptists had a much more Arminian influence and not just
in the Free Will Baptist denominations.


So what does it mean to be an Arminian?

The following DAISY is developed from a Calvinistic perspective. It starts from a Reformed understanding of the terms and then points out the differences that way. That is a bit unfair, so while I will use the acrostic at the beginning, I will also include another version that seems more fair and will also bring up the actual five Remonstrant points that started it all.

ARMINIANISM: DAISY

D: Diminished depravity – Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election – God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement – Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace – God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification – The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
A different DAISY formulation is:

• The divine decree of predestination is conditional, not absolute.
• The atonement is in intention universal.
• Man cannot of himself exercise a saving faith.
• Though the grace of God is a necessary condition of human effort it does not act irresistibly.
• Believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.

From these five points let’s look at:
Conditional Election – God chooses the elect based on His foreknowledge of their decision. Some Arminians would say that God corporately elects the Church and then individuals can become part of that election through accepting the Gospel. Others would say that God elects individuals but it is based on their foreseen faith.

The strengths of this idea are that it affirms human free will and personal responsibility. It fits with our experience that we do actually have free will and it seems more fair and just to say that a person’s eternal destiny is based on the actions they willfully chose.


Universal Atonement – Jesus died for everyone. His death opened the door for salvation. It provided access for “whosoever will” to come to Him and receive eternal life. This does not mean, as we will see later, that Christ’s death is applied to everyone, therefore making everyone “saved.” It simply means that Jesus’ sacrificial death made a relationship with God available.

Saving Faith – This is where too many Calvinist caricature the Arminian position. Classical Arminianism does not say that man can come to God whenever and however he wants. The version developed by Wesley does not say that either. Both views hold that man is depraved and cannot come to God apart from His grace working in their life.

Wesley fully developed how this worked with his idea of prevenient grace. God knows that everyone is dead in sin and cannot respond to His call in their current status, so He extends prevenient grace to everyone enabling them to make a free will decision on the Gospel. God provides the way and the sinner is responsible for recognizing his condition and committing himself to Christ.

Resistible Grace – Because prevenient grace is extended to all, we know that it can be resisted because not everyone accepts the Gospel. Again, this idea places the blame for rejecting salvation all on the human. It is not that they were not chosen by God. It is that they were offered grace, had the ability to respond and freely chose to ignore Christ and live in their sin instead.


Falling Away – Since believers have the free choice to accept Christ, they also have the free choice to leave Christ and go back to their sin. Classical Arminianism holds that those who do so have no other chances. They have sealed their fate. Wesleyan Arminiansim says that believers may fall away and come back numerous times.


OBJECTIONS:

As with Calvinism, some objections have true merit, others are merely pointless digs from the other perspective.
Arminianism is the same as Open Theism. This charge is absurd for obvious reasons. Open Theism denies God’s foreknowledge, saying that God cannot know what will happen in the future. Contrast that with Arminian theology which finds much of its basis in God foreknowing those whom would choose Him.

It promotes works based salvation. Someone should really inform Paul that he is wrong to contrast faith with works, then. The Bible constantly portrays faith as the antithesis of works. Arminian theology does not require works for salvation, but says that man must exercise faith. Those are two very distinct things.


It elevates man above God. This appears to have substance on the surface, but their is not much depth to the charge. Yes, Arminian theology does say that the final choice of whether to accept salvation or not lies in the hands of man. However, man only has that choice because of the work of Christ on the cross, the drawing of the Holy Spirit and the Father dispensing prevenient grace.


Arminianism empties “election” of all its meaning. This has much more merit. If Calvinism has to redefine free will to allow for the existence of the term in its theology, Arminianism has to do much the same with election. Scripture is clear about God’s election. Arminian theology takes that concept and simply makes it God affirming our choice.
You can call that election, but it means something much different than what the word would obviously mean.


Universal atonement makes Jesus our possibility, not our Savior. If Jesus did die for everyone, then his death does not provide salvation for the saved. It provides the opportunity to be saved. If it actually provided salvation, then everyone would be saved and neither orthodox Calvinism or Arminianism holds to that.


Falling away from grace eliminates the existence of eternal life. Upon our conversion, God gives us eternal life. If we can fall away, then the “eternal life” is not so eternal. How can eternal life be something that starts, then stops and, for some Arminians, starts again. Something cannot by definition be “eternal” if it ends.


CONCLUSION

Arminianism, despite many claims to the contrary by some Calvinists, is well within orthodox Christianity. It does have much to offer Christianity. It provides a logical motive to evangelism. It does however have many issues that make it difficult for me to accept. There are several logical and Scriptural issues that prevent me from embracing it.

http://thewardrobedoor.com/2010/08/pushing-up-daisy-arminianism-in-brief.html
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#2
Arminianism actually developed from an attempt to defend Calvinism. Joseph Arminius studied in Calvin’s theological school and was troubled by people attacking what would later be known as Reformed theology. He set out to study Scripture to rebuff those attacks. He was surprised to find his reading of the Bible did not match his Calvinist theology, so he began to develop a theological frame work of his own.

After his death, his followers, the Remonstrants, developed and published five points to serve as the basis for their theology. It was in response to these five points that the Calvinist Synod of Dort developed what became the Calvinism TULIP.

It was not until John Wesley began his preaching ministry during the Great Awakening that Arminian theology was fully developed and began to have a truly mass appeal. Through out history, most Baptists had been Calvinistic in their theology. However, from the time of Wesley forward Baptists had a much more Arminian influence and not just
in the Free Will Baptist denominations.


So what does it mean to be an Arminian?

The following DAISY is developed from a Calvinistic perspective. It starts from a Reformed understanding of the terms and then points out the differences that way. That is a bit unfair, so while I will use the acrostic at the beginning, I will also include another version that seems more fair and will also bring up the actual five Remonstrant points that started it all.

ARMINIANISM: DAISY

D: Diminished depravity – Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
A: Abrogated election – God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I: Impersonal atonement – Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
S: Sedentary grace – God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
Y: Yieldable justification – The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
A different DAISY formulation is:

• The divine decree of predestination is conditional, not absolute.
• The atonement is in intention universal.
• Man cannot of himself exercise a saving faith.
• Though the grace of God is a necessary condition of human effort it does not act irresistibly.
• Believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.

From these five points let’s look at:
Conditional Election – God chooses the elect based on His foreknowledge of their decision. Some Arminians would say that God corporately elects the Church and then individuals can become part of that election through accepting the Gospel. Others would say that God elects individuals but it is based on their foreseen faith.

The strengths of this idea are that it affirms human free will and personal responsibility. It fits with our experience that we do actually have free will and it seems more fair and just to say that a person’s eternal destiny is based on the actions they willfully chose.


Universal Atonement – Jesus died for everyone. His death opened the door for salvation. It provided access for “whosoever will” to come to Him and receive eternal life. This does not mean, as we will see later, that Christ’s death is applied to everyone, therefore making everyone “saved.” It simply means that Jesus’ sacrificial death made a relationship with God available.

Saving Faith – This is where too many Calvinist caricature the Arminian position. Classical Arminianism does not say that man can come to God whenever and however he wants. The version developed by Wesley does not say that either. Both views hold that man is depraved and cannot come to God apart from His grace working in their life.

Wesley fully developed how this worked with his idea of prevenient grace. God knows that everyone is dead in sin and cannot respond to His call in their current status, so He extends prevenient grace to everyone enabling them to make a free will decision on the Gospel. God provides the way and the sinner is responsible for recognizing his condition and committing himself to Christ.

Resistible Grace – Because prevenient grace is extended to all, we know that it can be resisted because not everyone accepts the Gospel. Again, this idea places the blame for rejecting salvation all on the human. It is not that they were not chosen by God. It is that they were offered grace, had the ability to respond and freely chose to ignore Christ and live in their sin instead.


Falling Away – Since believers have the free choice to accept Christ, they also have the free choice to leave Christ and go back to their sin. Classical Arminianism holds that those who do so have no other chances. They have sealed their fate. Wesleyan Arminiansim says that believers may fall away and come back numerous times.


OBJECTIONS:

As with Calvinism, some objections have true merit, others are merely pointless digs from the other perspective.
Arminianism is the same as Open Theism. This charge is absurd for obvious reasons. Open Theism denies God’s foreknowledge, saying that God cannot know what will happen in the future. Contrast that with Arminian theology which finds much of its basis in God foreknowing those whom would choose Him.

It promotes works based salvation. Someone should really inform Paul that he is wrong to contrast faith with works, then. The Bible constantly portrays faith as the antithesis of works. Arminian theology does not require works for salvation, but says that man must exercise faith. Those are two very distinct things.


It elevates man above God. This appears to have substance on the surface, but their is not much depth to the charge. Yes, Arminian theology does say that the final choice of whether to accept salvation or not lies in the hands of man. However, man only has that choice because of the work of Christ on the cross, the drawing of the Holy Spirit and the Father dispensing prevenient grace.


Arminianism empties “election” of all its meaning. This has much more merit. If Calvinism has to redefine free will to allow for the existence of the term in its theology, Arminianism has to do much the same with election. Scripture is clear about God’s election. Arminian theology takes that concept and simply makes it God affirming our choice.
You can call that election, but it means something much different than what the word would obviously mean.


Universal atonement makes Jesus our possibility, not our Savior. If Jesus did die for everyone, then his death does not provide salvation for the saved. It provides the opportunity to be saved. If it actually provided salvation, then everyone would be saved and neither orthodox Calvinism or Arminianism holds to that.


Falling away from grace eliminates the existence of eternal life. Upon our conversion, God gives us eternal life. If we can fall away, then the “eternal life” is not so eternal. How can eternal life be something that starts, then stops and, for some Arminians, starts again. Something cannot by definition be “eternal” if it ends.


CONCLUSION

Arminianism, despite many claims to the contrary by some Calvinists, is well within orthodox Christianity. It does have much to offer Christianity. It provides a logical motive to evangelism. It does however have many issues that make it difficult for me to accept. There are several logical and Scriptural issues that prevent me from embracing it.

http://thewardrobedoor.com/2010/08/pushing-up-daisy-arminianism-in-brief.html


Very interesting...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#3
Pushing up daisies?

Lol.
 

Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
2,824
207
63
#4

OBJECTIONS:

As with Calvinism, some objections have true merit, others are merely pointless digs from the other perspective.
Arminianism is the same as Open Theism. This charge is absurd for obvious reasons. Open Theism denies God’s foreknowledge, saying that God cannot know what will happen in the future. Contrast that with Arminian theology which finds much of its basis in God foreknowing those whom would choose Him.

It promotes works based salvation. Someone should really inform Paul that he is wrong to contrast faith with works, then. The Bible constantly portrays faith as the antithesis of works. Arminian theology does not require works for salvation, but says that man must exercise faith. Those are two very distinct things.


It elevates man above God. This appears to have substance on the surface, but their is not much depth to the charge. Yes, Arminian theology does say that the final choice of whether to accept salvation or not lies in the hands of man. However, man only has that choice because of the work of Christ on the cross, the drawing of the Holy Spirit and the Father dispensing prevenient grace.


Arminianism empties “election” of all its meaning. This has much more merit. If Calvinism has to redefine free will to allow for the existence of the term in its theology, Arminianism has to do much the same with election. Scripture is clear about God’s election. Arminian theology takes that concept and simply makes it God affirming our choice.
You can call that election, but it means something much different than what the word would obviously mean.


Universal atonement makes Jesus our possibility, not our Savior. If Jesus did die for everyone, then his death does not provide salvation for the saved. It provides the opportunity to be saved. If it actually provided salvation, then everyone would be saved and neither orthodox Calvinism or Arminianism holds to that.


Falling away from grace eliminates the existence of eternal life. Upon our conversion, God gives us eternal life. If we can fall away, then the “eternal life” is not so eternal. How can eternal life be something that starts, then stops and, for some Arminians, starts again. Something cannot by definition be “eternal” if it ends.


CONCLUSION

Arminianism, despite many claims to the contrary by some Calvinists, is well within orthodox Christianity. It does have much to offer Christianity. It provides a logical motive to evangelism. It does however have many issues that make it difficult for me to accept. There are several logical and Scriptural issues that prevent me from embracing it.

http://thewardrobedoor.com/2010/08/pushing-up-daisy-arminianism-in-brief.html

Hi Johnny,

I enjoyed reading your article. I thought you were fair in your assessment of Arminianism. Could you elaborate more on election? What you think is missing/lacking?

My understanding is that in Arminianism, those who are the elect are those who respond to the gospel message by faith. So those who respond are in Christ and those who are in Christ are the elect.

God chose us, elected us in Christ through the sacrifice of His blood on the cross. That is God's redemptive plan for the elect. Thought the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, we become the body of Christ, His church.

So the elect is God's choice and includes those in Christ who become His people, the body of Christ, for Himself by grace through faith.

And God predestines His elect to be....... called, redeemed, made righteous, justified, glorified, conformed to the likeness of His Son, holy and blameless before Him, adopted whereby we cry Abba, Father, heirs and co-heirs of an eternal inheritance, for the praise of His glory, indwelled by His Holy Spirit and created to do good works to bring glory and honor to Him in all that we say and do.

I'd love to hear how Arminian's theology is lacking. I lean more towards Arminianism, but I don't consider myself wearing a theological badge. I think if we didn't have them it would be easier to discuss doctrine without all the difficulties divisions bring. :)

Also to be fair, there are many Arminians that believe in perseverance of the saints.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,480
113
#5
D: Diminished depravity – Humanity is depraved, but God uses prevenient grace to restore man’s ability to respond to Him.
I understood the other 4 points but i do not understand this one.. What does the word Prevenient mean in realtion to this statement?

A: Abrogated election – God bases His election on His foreknowledge of those who freely choose Him.
I agree

I: Impersonal atonement – Christ died for everyone, making salvation possible for everyone.
I agree

S: Sedentary grace – God calls everyone to salvation, but many freely reject it.
I agree

Y: Yieldable justification – The saved can fall from grace and lose their salvation.
I agree but lose is the wrong word i would replace it with reject or cast away their salvation through reaching a state of disbelief..
 
Last edited:

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#6

Hi Johnny,

I enjoyed reading your article. I thought you were fair in your assessment of Arminianism. Could you elaborate more on election? What you think is missing/lacking?

My understanding is that in Arminianism, those who are the elect are those who respond to the gospel message by faith. So those who respond are in Christ and those who are in Christ are the elect.

God chose us, elected us in Christ through the sacrifice of His blood on the cross. That is God's redemptive plan for the elect. Thought the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for the forgiveness of sins, we become the body of Christ, His church.

So the elect is God's choice and includes those in Christ who become His people, the body of Christ, for Himself by grace through faith.

And God predestines His elect to be....... called, redeemed, made righteous, justified, glorified, conformed to the likeness of His Son, holy and blameless before Him, adopted whereby we cry Abba, Father, heirs and co-heirs of an eternal inheritance, for the praise of His glory, indwelled by His Holy Spirit and created to do good works to bring glory and honor to Him in all that we say and do.

I'd love to hear how Arminian's theology is lacking. I lean more towards Arminianism, but I don't consider myself wearing a theological badge. I think if we didn't have them it would be easier to discuss doctrine without all the difficulties divisions bring. :)

Also to be fair, there are many Arminians that believe in perseverance of the saints.
I did not write the article, I got it from the website at the bottom. What you said about the elect is what Calvinist believe, now Barth was a big proponent of we are elect when we are in Him, since He is the elect one, the elect Messiah and was known before the foundation of the world. Robert Shank wrote two books that go into detail about this idea,"Elect in the Son" and "Life in the Son". Our predestination is to be conformed to the image of His son or be as He is now in His glorified body, our blessed hope. The process of get to where we receive our glorified bodies, is being foreknown, predestined, called, justified and glorified. Paul used the poetic style of writing here, like Moses used in the first few chapters of Genesis, where he give a short synopsis, then gets into more detail following the synopsis.

I wrote something on the atonement that I posted here about a month and a half ago, I could repost it if you'd like. From my experience it is hard to find books on Arminianism there just aren't that many and even less on Molinism the Dispensationalist and Reformed/Calvinists are the bulk of all the books that explain their position, the other books that sell a lot are books by people that are claiming to be experts on Calvinism and they misrepresent it. I had the chance to meet George Bryson, he wrote, "Calvinism Weighed and Found Wanting: 3:16" I asked him a question about Calvinism because my friend and my pastor at the time were both talking about how George was the expert on Calvinism and he had shown it to be non-Biblical.


This has been over twenty years ago, I can't even remember what I asked him, but I stood there and just looked at him and asked it again because I thought he must not have heard me and he gave me the same answer. With that I concluded that the man knew nothing about the Bible or Calvinism, other wise he would of given me an apologetic on their false doctrines. That set me on a journey to understand Calvinism, I was teaching at a prison and we were going through the book of Romans verse by verse, paragraph by paragraph, chapter by chapter and when I got to chapter 9 I thought I knew what it said and when t came to the part about, Jacob I love, but Esau I hated. I tried to say that the word hate meant disliked and I stumbled over my words and moved on. So I studied it out and realized that the word of hate meant hate. Any way if you go to that site at the bottom of the post you can get more information there. It's a trip the homepage has a picture of Mr Rodger's in his patented red sweater and how he turned Chuck Norris.

Anyway I hope I helped a little, but I am not going to speak to something I don't know for sure because I've study it. Yes I was an Arminian and a Dispensational, but at that time I was
Pentecostal as well and read mostly books on healing, the gifts and adventures in faith and some christian cult stuff as well. My biggest regret is that I sold all those books I had lots of Dispensational books that I could refer to right now but I no longer have them. all the hypr-Pentacoastal books could be used as well, when people ask questions on some of these guys, I could of quoted their own words and given the page number, the title of the book to help people understand the dangers of some of the teaching that goes for Christianity. It is like the Dake Annotated Bible, it's a Pentecostal favorite and the very first NT study note says, "Jesus became the Christ at His baptism" that is heresy, yet many Pentecostal pastors use it. I know when I showed my pastor that, he said well the rest of the notes are good, really the rest of the New World Translation" is okay to except for John 1:1 they add "a" before God, Colossians 1:16 they add He created all [other] things" and in Hebrews 1:8 they have changed "worship" to [pay ovations], I need to stop babbling, sorry.