Assurance of salvation

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Sep 2, 2020
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Babylon
#21
That was baptized by the spirit and not water right?🤔 (I was baptized as a baby I believe but if I recall that is different)
No sir. There is one baptism and it is indeed by water, see Philip baptised the eunuch. See 1 Peter Chapter 3
Romans 6, colossians 2, 1 corinthians 1. And acts 22
. Baptism is in water, unless specified other wise which was done only one time and that was by John the Baptist. Who said Jesus would baptised in fire, and the Holy Spirit.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,825
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#22
No sir. There is one baptism and it is indeed by water, see Philip baptised the eunuch. See 1 Peter Chapter 3
Romans 6, colossians 2, 1 corinthians 1. And acts 22
. Baptism is in water, unless specified other wise which was done only one time and that was by John the Baptist. Who said Jesus would baptised in fire, and the Holy Spirit.
Okay well I got that as a baby I believe 🤔
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
1,401
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#23
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC? Does anyone know how similar? Doctrine such as assurance of salvation is not held in Catholic churches. Could have the early churches believed the same?
Read 1 John 5. It's stated that there's a way to know, absolutely know, in no vague or uncertain terms, how to know we have eternal life.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,825
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#24
Read 1 John 5. It's stated that there's a way to know, absolutely know, in no vague or uncertain terms, how to know we have eternal life.
Well now that I'm learning about water baptisms I highly doubt I am now. If I die on the car trip to my brothers I'd go straight to hell? 😭😔😔
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
1,401
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#25
Well now that I'm learning about water baptisms I highly doubt I am now. If I die on the car trip to my brothers I'd go straight to hell? 😭😔😔
No you don't go to hell for not being water baptized. Water baptism is symbolic of the dying, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Getting in water doesn't remove sin or give salvation.

Even though we didn't earn God's favor, because God loves us, He offers us a gift of salvation through faith. We have faith in Jesus Christ, His shed blood on the cross, for the forgiveness of our sins.

Know this, believe it.

Read John 3:16

Read Romans 10:1-4.

Read 1 John 5

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,825
2,433
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#27
No you don't go to hell for not being water baptized. Water baptism is symbolic of the dying, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Getting in water doesn't remove sin or give salvation.

Even though we didn't earn God's favor, because God loves us, He offers us a gift of salvation through faith. We have faith in Jesus Christ, His shed blood on the cross, for the forgiveness of our sins.

Know this, believe it.

Read John 3:16

Read Romans 10:1-4.

Read 1 John 5

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Phew 😅 I get panic attacks easy, that's good news! :)
 
Sep 2, 2020
1,835
821
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Babylon
#28
No you don't go to hell for not being water baptized. Water baptism is symbolic of the dying, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Getting in water doesn't remove sin or give salvation.

Even though we didn't earn God's favor, because God loves us, He offers us a gift of salvation through faith. We have faith in Jesus Christ, His shed blood on the cross, for the forgiveness of our sins.

Know this, believe it.

Read John 3:16

Read Romans 10:1-4.

Read 1 John 5

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Show symbolic in scripture.
Huh? Paul said your were buried with Christ in baptism. I know it's hard to understand how one could be actually buried with Christ and still be walking around but you can rely on scripture and know it is so. Walk by faith not by sight.
This post is not about baptism, and I will not derail it. I recommend one read the scriptures and believe what they say with out imposing our interpretation upon them.
 
Jun 18, 2020
49
3
8
#30
I've always had doubts of my own personally. That being said I have family members I'd like to be saved (which obviously isnt my decision to make 😬) So I suppose a bit of both.
The RCC certainly does support the concept of general assurance of those covered by the grace of God.
The RCC labels individual claims of personal knowledge of assurance as the sin of presumption and an affront to hope.
I hope this helps.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
1,401
1,131
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#31
Show symbolic in scripture.
Huh? Paul said your were buried with Christ in baptism. I know it's hard to understand how one could be actually buried with Christ and still be walking around but you can rely on scripture and know it is so. Walk by faith not by sight.
This post is not about baptism, and I will not derail it. I recommend one read the scriptures and believe what they say with out imposing our interpretation upon them.
Show symbolic in scripture.
Huh? Paul said your were buried with Christ in baptism. I know it's hard to understand how one could be actually buried with Christ and still be walking around but you can rely on scripture and know it is so. Walk by faith not by sight.
This post is not about baptism, and I will not derail it. I recommend one read the scriptures and believe what they say with out imposing our interpretation upon them.
Do you already know water baptism isn't the baptism of the Holy Spirit or are you just wanting me to back up my post with additional scripture? Or is there something you're disagreeing with and want to discuss?
 
Sep 2, 2020
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Babylon
#32
Do you already know water baptism isn't the baptism of the Holy Spirit or are you just wanting me to back up my post with additional scripture? Or is there something you're disagreeing with and want to discuss?
Nope. No discussion required, intended, or desired.
 
Oct 13, 2011
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#33
So from what I've heard early churches were similar to RCC? Does anyone know how similar? Doctrine such as assurance of salvation is not held in Catholic churches. Could have the early churches believed the same?
You read the early Anti-Nicene fathers and you'll see what are the similarities and differences between New Testament era churches and the early post-Pauline church. Most of these writings are available online.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
1,648
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#34
Thanks for the info yall. A person in one of my christian groups was trying to decide if they wanted to get into Catholicism. I dont know enough to properly debate or try to encourage him to look elsewhere.
Did they mention their motivations? It could be they aren't aware of a lot of the more troubling elements of Catholicism.

To me that's on the same level as converting to Judaism from Christianity. Not unheard of but it means something pretty deep.


If they just want "panache" they could go to a presbyterian church or perhaps check out some liturgical churches that aren't Catholic if the "form" is what is attracting them. I don't think ritual is evil, but I do think that Pharisaism was strongly condemned and there is a danger if one gets too wrapped up in ritual especially if a person doesn't even know why they do it or if they burden themselves with the law anew somehow through this medium.
 

Live4Him

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2021
867
661
93
#35
Okay well I got that as a baby I believe 🤔
Hi, Kojikun.

I know that you're presently recovering from a major surgery, and I certainly don't want to cause you any additional discomfort, pain, or anxiety.

That said and sincerely meant, I'll momentarily jump into this conversation only to hopefully help you to better understand some things about water baptism as described in scripture that may ultimately be of a benefit to you.

First and foremost, Jesus Christ is always our example, and he wasn't water baptized as an infant, but rather as an adult (Matt. 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-23, John 1:29-34). In fact, if you read the entire Bible from cover to cover, then you won't find one example of anybody who was water baptized as an infant, and there are reasons why you won't.

When it comes to the topic of water baptism, Jesus said:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16)

Here, we see that one prerequisite for water baptism is believing, and an newborn infant simply does not have the capacity to believe.

Here are some examples from scripture of those who believed before being water baptized:

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." (Acts 8:12-13)

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him." (Acts 8:36-38)

"And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." (Acts 16:27-33)

"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized." (Acts 18:8)

Again, we must believe before being water baptized, and a newborn infant simply doesn't have the capacity to believe.

Peter put it this way:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." (I Pet. 3:18-22)

Water baptism has nothing to do with "the putting away of the filth of the flesh" or some sort of outward, physical cleansing. Instead, it has everything to do with "the answer of a good conscience toward God" in relation to "the resurrection of Jesus Christ" from the dead. The word "conscience" literally means "with (con-) knowledge (science)", and, again, a newborn infant cannot possible be water baptized "with knowledge" of what it actually means in relation to Christ's resurrection from the dead.

Along these same lines, Paul said:

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (I Cor. 15:29)

Here, Paul was refuting those who were claiming that there is no resurrection from the dead. In light of this, Paul asked why Christians were "baptized for the dead" or baptized as those who were dead "if the dead rise not at all". Again, water baptism is directly related to one's belief in Christ's resurrection from the dead, and a newborn infant simply cannot possess such a belief.

One other prerequisite that we're given for water baptism in scripture is repentance, and a newborn infant cannot repent either.

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:37-41)

We see these same two foundational prerequisites of repentance and belief in relation to water baptism here as well:

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. " (Heb. 6:1-2)

Hopefully, you can recognize that a newborn infant is incapable of repenting, believing, or having the answer of a good conscience toward God in relation to water baptism.

Bringing this back to you, I'm quite sure that God knows of your present situation regarding your surgery and healing process. I'm also quite certain that God knows the thoughts and intents of your heart. If you believe that Jesus Christ was crucified to pay the penalty for your sins, and if you believe that God raised him from the dead, then your saving faith is what is of utmost importance in God's eyes. Should the time come when you are physically and emotionally able to add the outward sign of your inward faith by being water baptized, then I would heartily recommend that you do so. Should you be unable to do so, as was the case with the thief on the cross, then I'm quite confident that God would recognize the same.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
3,825
2,433
113
#36
Hi, Kojikun.

I know that you're presently recovering from a major surgery, and I certainly don't want to cause you any additional discomfort, pain, or anxiety.

That said and sincerely meant, I'll momentarily jump into this conversation only to hopefully help you to better understand some things about water baptism as described in scripture that may ultimately be of a benefit to you.

First and foremost, Jesus Christ is always our example, and he wasn't water baptized as an infant, but rather as an adult (Matt. 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-23, John 1:29-34). In fact, if you read the entire Bible from cover to cover, then you won't find one example of anybody who was water baptized as an infant, and there are reasons why you won't.

When it comes to the topic of water baptism, Jesus said:

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16)

Here, we see that one prerequisite for water baptism is believing, and an newborn infant simply does not have the capacity to believe.

Here are some examples from scripture of those who believed before being water baptized:

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done." (Acts 8:12-13)

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him." (Acts 8:36-38)

"And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway." (Acts 16:27-33)

"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized." (Acts 18:8)

Again, we must believe before being water baptized, and a newborn infant simply doesn't have the capacity to believe.

Peter put it this way:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." (I Pet. 3:18-22)

Water baptism has nothing to do with "the putting away of the filth of the flesh" or some sort of outward, physical cleansing. Instead, it has everything to do with "the answer of a good conscience toward God" in relation to "the resurrection of Jesus Christ" from the dead. The word "conscience" literally means "with (con-) knowledge (science)", and, again, a newborn infant cannot possible be water baptized "with knowledge" of what it actually means in relation to Christ's resurrection from the dead.

Along these same lines, Paul said:

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" (I Cor. 15:29)

Here, Paul was refuting those who were claiming that there is no resurrection from the dead. In light of this, Paul asked why Christians were "baptized for the dead" or baptized as those who were dead "if the dead rise not at all". Again, water baptism is directly related to one's belief in Christ's resurrection from the dead, and a newborn infant simply cannot possess such a belief.

One other prerequisite that we're given for water baptism in scripture is repentance, and a newborn infant cannot repent either.

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." (Acts 2:37-41)

We see these same two foundational prerequisites of repentance and belief in relation to water baptism here as well:

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. " (Heb. 6:1-2)

Hopefully, you can recognize that a newborn infant is incapable of repenting, believing, or having the answer of a good conscience toward God in relation to water baptism.

Bringing this back to you, I'm quite sure that God knows of your present situation regarding your surgery and healing process. I'm also quite certain that God knows the thoughts and intents of your heart. If you believe that Jesus Christ was crucified to pay the penalty for your sins, and if you believe that God raised him from the dead, then your saving faith is what is of utmost importance in God's eyes. Should the time come when you are physically and emotionally able to add the outward sign of your inward faith by being water baptized, then I would heartily recommend that you do so. Should you be unable to do so, as was the case with the thief on the cross, then I'm quite confident that God would recognize the same.
I see, I'm currently looking for a church :) as for recovering I am doing good. I have a church in mind. If water baptism is a sign I'm committed than I will gladly do so. I have a big selection of churches in my town so it shouldn't be difficult finding the right one.
 
Sep 2, 2020
1,835
821
113
Babylon
#37
I see, I'm currently looking for a church :) as for recovering I am doing good. I have a church in mind. If water baptism is a sign I'm committed than I will gladly do so. I have a big selection of churches in my town so it shouldn't be difficult finding the right one.
All the examples given were of new converts not children raised in the faith. I have a video for you. It's short and explains why if your were baptised as an infant it is sufficient. The primary cause is that baptism is a work of God not of man. As is also salvation; a promise to your from JESUS.


Please watch and have peace, and assurity.
 
Jul 18, 2017
13,997
6,436
113
#38
I have a big selection of churches in my town so it shouldn't be difficult finding the right one.
You should take the time to study the Statement of Faith of any church which you seriously consider. You will also need to avoid churches within the mainstream denominations (which have gone liberal and even apostate). So it will not be a walk in the park to find a sound Gospel-preaching and Bible-believing and practicing church. And unless you know what the Bible teaches, you will not be able to discern truth from error.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
9,581
1,466
113
#39
All the examples given were of new converts not children raised in the faith. I have a video for you. It's short and explains why if your were baptised as an infant it is sufficient. The primary cause is that baptism is a work of God not of man. As is also salvation; a promise to your from JESUS.


Please watch and have peace, and assurity.
Could this be a good question for my thread? For instance, is there a verse that says to baptise babies ?