Attack of the Judaizers

[ProphetExcalibur]

You clearly know nothing about what you say, the Talmud is not of "the same entity of the Law"

If one takes the Scriptures and turns them into satanic doctrine that is not the "same entity" remember when satan tempted Messiah, was satans words of "the same entity?"

Revelation 3:9, "I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you."

Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 59b
We learnt elsewhere: If he cut it into separate tiles, placing sand between each tile: R. Eliezer declared it clean, and the Sages declared it unclean; and this was the oven of ‘Aknai.1 Why [the oven of] ‘Aknai? — Said Rab Judah in Samuel's name: [It means] that they encompassed it with arguments2 as a snake, and proved it unclean. It has been taught: On that day R. Eliezer brought forward every imaginable argument ,3 but they did not accept them. Said he to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let this carob-tree prove it!’ Thereupon the carob-tree was torn a hundred cubits out of its place — others affirm, four hundred cubits. ‘No proof can be brought from a carob-tree,’ they retorted. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the stream of water prove it!’ Whereupon the stream of water flowed backwards — ‘No proof can be brought from a stream of water,’ they rejoined. Again he urged: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let the walls of the schoolhouse prove it,’ whereupon the walls inclined to fall. But R. Joshua rebuked them, saying: ‘When scholars are engaged in a halachic dispute, what have ye to interfere?’ Hence they did not fall, in honour of R. Joshua, nor did they resume the upright, in honour of R. Eliezer; and they are still standing thus inclined. Again he said to them: ‘If the halachah agrees with me, let it be proved from Heaven!’ Whereupon a Heavenly Voice cried out: ‘Why do ye dispute with R. Eliezer, seeing that in all matters the halachah agrees with him!’ But R. Joshua arose and exclaimed: ‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice, because Thou hast long since written in the Torah at Mount Sinai, After the majority must one incline.5R. Nathan met Elijah6 and asked him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do in that hour? — He laughed [with joy], he replied, saying, ‘My sons have defeated Me, My sons have defeated Me.’ It was said: On that day all objects which R. Eliezer had declared clean were brought and burnt in fire.7 Then they took a vote and excommunicated him.

The "rabbis" and Pharisees interpret Scripture by something called Midrashic interpretation, which ignores language and ignores context. They say Scripture is a divne code and only the rabbis have the knowledge to decipher that divine code. Here is an ACTUAL example of Midrashic interpretation used by the rabbis:

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

Talmud - Mas. Sanhedrin 57a
"For murder, whether of a by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred;
but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty."

CUTHEAN; CUTHITE - ku-the'-an, kuth'-it. - See CUTH; SAMARITANS. International Standard Bible Encyclopedia 1915

Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 114b
"For it has been taught: R. Simeon b. Yohai said: The graves of Gentiles do not defile, for it is written, And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men; only ye are designated men."

Lets break this down

Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."

First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”

He said He came to “fulfill them.”

Lets let scripture interpret scripture –

Yahshua knew satan would beguile many into a false interpretation of these words of His, this is why HE said IN THE NEXT SENTENCE:

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

The Jews did not interpret the Talmud out of something from aliens from outer space Hiz,
it came from the Law of God, this is why they were judged by God.

 

[Hizikyah]

The Jews did not interpret the Talmud out of something from aliens from outer space Hiz,
it came from the Law of God, this is why they were judged by God.

you said the Law and the Talmud of of the same entity.

SO taking this verse:

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

And turning it into this doctrine is ok and staying with the confines of the "OT"?

"‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Do you not understand that Jesus is speaking of Himself here, Hiz?
Jesus was the one that,....whosoever will do and teach them....

 

[Hizikyah]

Do you not understand that Jesus is speaking of Himself here, Hiz?
Jesus was the one that,....whosoever will do and teach them....

whaaaaaaaaaat??????

lol

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

you said the Law and the Talmud of of the same entity.

SO taking this verse:

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

And turning it into this doctrine is ok and staying with the confines of the "OT"?

"‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

This was written in Moses' day! Where speaking of after 70 ad,
pull your head out of the sand, Hiz!

 

[Hizikyah]

Mattithyah 5:17-20, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh. For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh."

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

you said the Law and the Talmud of of the same entity.

SO taking this verse:

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

And turning it into this doctrine is ok and staying with the confines of the "OT"?

"‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Baba Metzia 59b)

This was written in Moses' day! Where speaking of after 70 ad,
pull your head out of the sand, Hiz!

So its ok to twist Scripture when it was written before 70ad?

 

[danschance]

To danschance, How could you delete the necessity of good works when Jesus condemns those with evil works and includes only those who have faith and good words. And Jesus said "except one is born again ,they will not see the Kingdom..." "except you be converted and become as a little child,you will never enter the kingdom" The new birth is Sanctification begun, the radical brake with sin. Paul said , we are chosen to salvation thru "Sanctification of the Spirit and Faith in the truth", which speaks of Justification 2nd, not first, God first gives the gift of Sanctification then we trust and obey for justification 2nd. having receive the power to do so, in the new birth. . love the whole truth, Hoffco

If you are referring to my post just prior to this post I did not delete any works. I said we are not saved by works. We are not saved by the Mosaic law either. The only thing that can save a person is faith in Christ.

For GOD so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

 

[Hizikyah]

Do you not understand that Jesus is speaking of Himself here, Hiz?
Jesus was the one that,....whosoever will do and teach them....

this is hilariously wrong, but lets just say for a second, your right....


So Messiah taught the Laws, but you dont think they should be followed?

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

So are who are you a follower of?

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

whaaaaaaaaaat??????

lol

Do you not yet get it?
You are like Nicodemus!
No one could fulfill the Law and the Prophets but the Son of God!
If they could they wouldn't need a Messiah!
Who taught you this nonsense?
That you could fulfill any of the Law much less all of it?

 

[Hizikyah]

Do you not yet get it?
You are like Nicodemus!
No one could fulfill the Law and the Prophets but the Son of God!
If they could they wouldn't need a Messiah!
Who taught you this nonsense?
That you could fulfill any of the Law much less all of it?

when did I ever say ANYTHING about anyone fulfilling the Law except Messiah?

SO because I cant keep it perfect its cast aside? Well killing would not be sin anymore.

Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."

First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”

He said He came to “fulfill them.”

Lets let scripture interpret scripture –

Yahshua knew satan would beguile many into a false interpretation of these words of His, this is why HE said IN THE NEXT SENTENCE:

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

Mattithyah 5:17-20, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh. For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh."

 

[Hizikyah]

Yahdah (Jude) 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into
licentiousness (lewdness, a license to sin), and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

when did I ever say ANYTHING about anyone fulfilling the Law except Messiah?

SO because I cant keep it perfect its cast aside? Well killing would not be sin anymore.

Mattithyah 5:17, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."

First off twice in this one verse Yahshua says He “did not come to destroy the Law or the Prophets.”

He said He came to “fulfill them.”

Lets let scripture interpret scripture –

Yahshua knew satan would beguile many into a false interpretation of these words of His, this is why HE said IN THE NEXT SENTENCE:

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

Mattithyah 5:17-20, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh. For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, Hiz!
And they are made perfect in Him!
And He is in Heaven! Thank you!

 

[Hizikyah]

I think when most people read Matt 5:17-20, they stop at

"Do not even think"

are all the prophecies fulfilled?

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

I think when most people read Matt 5:17-20, they stop at

"Do not even think"

are all the prophecies fulfilled?

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

I'm sorry Hiz, have you not heard that heaven and earth in Adam did pass away,
and Christ is the New Creation and in Him all things have been made perfect?!
Sin may still be in this earth, but not in the New Creation in Christ Jesus!
I told you in my first post that we are made perfect as we are found in Him, because He was made perfect! Not us!

 

[Hizikyah]

I think when most people read Matt 5:17-20, they stop at

"Do not even think"

are all the prophecies fulfilled?

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

I'm sorry Hiz, have you not heard that heaven and earth in Adam did pass away,
and Christ is the New Creation and in Him all things have been made perfect?!
Sin may still be in this earth, but not in the New Creation in Christ Jesus!
I told you in my first post that we are made perfect as we are found in Him, because He was made perfect! Not us!

the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

I think when most people read Matt 5:17-20, they stop at

"Do not even think"

are all the prophecies fulfilled?

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

I'm sorry Hiz, have you not heard that heaven and earth in Adam did pass away,
and Christ is the New Creation and in Him all things have been made perfect?!
Sin may still be in this earth, but not in the New Creation in Christ Jesus!
I told you in my first post that we are made perfect as we are found in Him, because He was made perfect! Not us!

So I disagree, both have happened!

 

[Hizikyah]

I think when most people read Matt 5:17-20, they stop at

"Do not even think"

are all the prophecies fulfilled?

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.

Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.

So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.

I'm sorry Hiz, have you not heard that heaven and earth in Adam did pass away,
and Christ is the New Creation and in Him all things have been made perfect?!
Sin may still be in this earth, but not in the New Creation in Christ Jesus!
I told you in my first post that we are made perfect as we are found in Him, because He was made perfect! Not us!

the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected

Heaven and earth has passed away?

I see Scripture nor reality will not get in the way of your doctrine.

The Messiah loves you, please listen to Him

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Heaven and earth has passed away?

I see Scripture nor reality will not get in the way of your doctrine.

The Messiah loves you, please listen to Him

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Your insulting me and fear mongering don't work on me Hiz!
Did Paul say Jesus was the New Creation or did he not?

 

[Hizikyah]

Your insulting me and fear mongering don't work on me Hiz!
Did Paul say Jesus was the New Creation or did he not?

My intent is not to insult or fear monger, I take the Scriptures very serious and I am someone who speaks his mind.

I believe you are zealous for Messiah, but not according to Scripture. The words are right in front of you, Matt 5:17-20 is not that hard, you may have a thought or verse that you think means this or that, but brother, it means what it says.

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Messiah is THE ONE Yahweh said we MUST hear and obey, brother, we must do so.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"