Baptism and holy spirit

[wanderer6059]

The twelve were the first ones to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it happened in the Temple.

The upper room is where the apostles abode. It's where they lived, slept, brushed their teeth, etc.

The gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out in the Temple, where thousands of people were gathered.

that happened here actually.

Jesus Appears to the Disciples


John 20:21-23 (NASB)


21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, their sins [a]have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”

 

[Lewiz]

its called a revelation.

There's no listing in scripture that the Spirit came upon Hannah.

But God used Eli the priest when he answered her.

1 Samuel 1:12-18 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now it came about, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli was watching her mouth. [SUP]13 [/SUP] As for Hannah, she was speaking in her heart, only her lips were moving, but her voice was not heard. So Eli thought she was drunk. [SUP]14 [/SUP] Then Eli said to her, "How long will you make yourself drunk? Put away your wine from you." [SUP]15 [/SUP] But Hannah replied, "No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the LORD. [SUP]16 [/SUP] "Do not consider your maidservant as a worthless woman, for I have spoken until now out of my great concern and provocation." [SUP]17 [/SUP] Then Eli answered and said, "Go in peace; and may the God of Israel grant your petition that you have asked of Him." [SUP]18 [/SUP] She said, "Let your maidservant find favor in your sight." So the woman went her way and ate, and her face was no longer sad.

Please, read the Book & use Book answers.

 

[wanderer6059]

There's no listing in scripture that the Spirit came upon Hannah.

But God used Eli the priest when he answered her.

1 Samuel 1:12-18 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now it came about, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli was watching her mouth. [SUP]13 [/SUP] As for Hannah, she was speaking in her heart, only her lips were moving, but her voice was not heard. So Eli thought she was drunk. [SUP]14 [/SUP] Then Eli said to her, "How long will you make yourself drunk? Put away your wine from you." [SUP]15 [/SUP] But Hannah replied, "No, my lord, I am a woman oppressed in spirit; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have poured out my soul before the LORD. [SUP]16 [/SUP] "Do not consider your maidservant as a worthless woman, for I have spoken until now out of my great concern and provocation." [SUP]17 [/SUP] Then Eli answered and said, "Go in peace; and may the God of Israel grant your petition that you have asked of Him." [SUP]18 [/SUP] She said, "Let your maidservant find favor in your sight." So the woman went her way and ate, and her face was no longer sad.

Please, read the Book & use Book answers.

she couldn't, she didn't have the HS.

but we do, there is no need for a prophet or priest because we are ones in our own right. gotta look at it through the NT

 

[Lewiz]

Praying in the spirit is always speaking in tongues.


Those verses do not say that we should interpret tongues in our hearts. The Bible states that when a person speaks in tongues, he does not understand what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2).

When a person speaks in tongues out loud, he must also interpret, so the church can be edified. It says nothing about interpreting your own tongue when speaking in tongues to yourself.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand.

Tongues is tongues, prophesy is prophesy. Prophesy is never referred to as praying in the spirit. They are different manifestations.

Acts 4:23-31 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. [SUP]24 [/SUP] And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: [SUP]25 [/SUP] Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? [SUP]26 [/SUP] The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. [SUP]27 [/SUP] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, [SUP]28 [/SUP] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. [SUP]29 [/SUP] And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, [SUP]30 [/SUP] By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. [SUP]31 [/SUP] And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
So you don't believe the church prayed this being led by the Spirit?!?

A spirit-filled believer can operate the manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Three of those manifestations are tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophesy.


"Led by the Spirit" means a lot more than operating the manifestations.

Gotta run for now. God bless.

Yes it does. Never said it didn't

 

[CS1]

Praying in the spirit is always speaking in tongues.


Those verses do not say that we should interpret tongues in our hearts. The Bible states that when a person speaks in tongues, he does not understand what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2).

When a person speaks in tongues out loud, he must also interpret, so the church can be edified. It says nothing about interpreting your own tongue when speaking in tongues to yourself.


Tongues is tongues, prophesy is prophesy. Prophesy is never referred to as praying in the spirit. They are different manifestations.


A spirit-filled believer can operate the manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Three of those manifestations are tongues, interpretation of tongues, and prophesy.


"Led by the Spirit" means a lot more than operating the manifestations.

Gotta run for now. God bless.

Read 1cor 14 in the full context of chapters 12 & 13

1cor 14 :13

13 [FONT=&quot]Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]interpret.
[/FONT]14 [FONT=&quot]For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
we need not get the cart before the horse

Paul said : " if I pray in tongues, my spirit prays but I do not understand ".
[/FONT]15 [FONT=&quot]What is [/FONT]the conclusion then?
I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

as you continue on the chapter tell us what is to happen when one speaks in toungues and there is not interpretation

verse 27 -28

"27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

The person who has no interpreter can still speak they have to do so quietly .

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Some people will be baptized then receive the holy spirit. However, some people have to wait for the promise. It's not an automatic thing....

I didn't state otherwise...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Those verses do not say that we should interpret tongues in our hearts. The Bible states that when a person speaks in tongues, he does not understand what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2).

When a person speaks in tongues out loud, he must also interpret, so the church can be edified. It says nothing about interpreting your own tongue when speaking in tongues to yourself.

This will require some explanation...you say he doesn't understand what he's saying. Then you say if he speaks out loud, he must interpret.

If he doesn't understand what he is saying, how can he interpret...?

And further, why would he speak in tongues, then interpret, anyway? Why make someone sit through him speaking in tongues and then also sit through his interpretation? It would be quicker to just say what he has to say once, in the language of the hearers...

 

[shrume]

This will require some explanation...

I'll try..

you say he doesn't understand what he's saying.

The Bible says he doesn't understand what he is saying:

1 Cor 14:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

Then you say if he speaks out loud, he must interpret.

The Bible says that if he speaks in tongues out loud, he must interpret:

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

16) Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

If the person speaking in tongues out loud does not interpret, nobody will know what he said.

If he doesn't understand what he is saying, how can he interpret...?

Interpretation of tongues is another manifestation of the gift of the Holy Spirit. He operates the manifestation of interpretation of tongues to interpret what he just spoke in a tongue.

And further, why would he speak in tongues, then interpret, anyway? Why make someone sit through him speaking in tongues and then also sit through his interpretation?

One very good reason to me is that the Bible tells us to do so.

1 Cor 14:
15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

27) If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

It would be quicker to just say what he has to say once, in the language of the hearers...

Maybe you should take it up with God?

 

[shrume]

When a person speaks in tongues out loud, he must also interpret, so the church can be edified. It says nothing about interpreting your own tongue when speaking in tongues to yourself.

13 So anyone who speaks in tongues should pray also for the ability to interpret what has been said. 14 For if I pray in tongues, my spirit is praying, but I don’t understand what I am saying. 15 Well then, what shall I do? I will pray in the spirit, and I will also pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will also sing in words I understand.

The context is in Christian meetings, and people speaking in tongues out loud. In meetings, if a person does not feel inspired to interpret, he should speak in tongues quietly, to himself (1 Cor 14:28). The Bible does not say he should interpret to himself.

Tongues is tongues, prophesy is prophesy. Prophesy is never referred to as praying in the spirit. They are different manifestations.

Acts 4:23-31 (KJV)
23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. 24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

So you don't believe the church prayed this being led by the Spirit?!?

Of course they were.

 

[shrume]

Read 1cor 14 in the full context of chapters 12 & 13

1cor 14 :13

13 [FONT="]Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]interpret.
[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][B]14 [/B][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT="]For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.
we need not get the cart before the horse

Paul said : " if I pray in tongues, my spirit prays but I do not understand ".
[/FONT]15 [FONT="]What is [/FONT]the conclusion then?
I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

as you continue on the chapter tell us what is to happen when one speaks in toungues and there is not interpretation

verse 27 -28

"27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God.

The person who has no interpreter can still speak they have to do so quietly .

I'm not sure of the point you're wanting to make. I generally agree with everything you said.

 

[Lewiz]

The twelve were the first ones to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, and it happened in the Temple.

The upper room is where the apostles abode. It's where they lived, slept, brushed their teeth, etc.

The gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out in the Temple, where thousands of people were gathered.

The first time the disciples received the Spirit was directly from Jesus, and it was a temporary impartation.

Jesus'breathing on them was not a "full immersion" of the Spirit.

Neither was it on just "the twelve".

The phrase "the disciples" were always a different number each time they're mentioned.

In Luke 10:1 it was 70

In Acts 1:15, it was 120

In John 21, it's only 7, & not all of them were apostles.

It's never 12 unless it specifically says so.

 

[CS1]

I'm not sure of the point you're wanting to make. I generally agree with everything you said.

I will try to clearify please remember I can be wrong

I see 1cor 12, 13 and 14 are to be read in context to these chapters . They are known as unit chapters just like Matt 24 & 25.

Paul is addressing two things here in the church , well actually many but, in the context to tongues If a person is speaking in tongues and there is no interpretation the elders are to tell them to be quiet and speak to themselves. This is what Paul is meaning about well order and discipline at verse 40. No where does Paul say not to speak but have self control and maturity or people will think you are crazy but when the gifts are used correctly both believer and unbeliever will be blessed by the operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ariel82]

Baptism and holy spirit
I hear that the holy spirit comes down when you are baptized.

When the Holy spirit comes down upon you it's called the baptism of the Holy Spirit...that is different than water baptism.

 

[wanderer6059]

The first time the disciples received the Spirit was directly from Jesus, and it was a temporary impartation.

Jesus'breathing on them was not a "full immersion" of the Spirit.

Neither was it on just "the twelve".

The phrase "the disciples" were always a different number each time they're mentioned.

In Luke 10:1 it was 70

In Acts 1:15, it was 120

In John 21, it's only 7, & not all of them were apostles.

It's never 12 unless it specifically says so.

how was it temporary? john 20:22 has nothing in it that you can intemperate that being temporary, infact receive is seen here as to take hold of an never let go.

 

[shrume]

I will try to clearify please remember I can be wrong

I see 1cor 12, 13 and 14 are to be read in context to these chapters . They are known as unit chapters just like Matt 24 & 25.

Paul is addressing two things here in the church , well actually many but, in the context to tongues If a person is speaking in tongues and there is no interpretation the elders are to tell them to be quiet and speak to themselves.

I believe that Christians should know that for themselves. But if someone doesn't know, then I agree, someone should tell them.

This is what Paul is meaning about well order and discipline at verse 40. No where does Paul say not to speak but have self control and maturity or people will think you are crazy but when the gifts are used correctly both believer and unbeliever will be blessed by the operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Again, I agree.

 

[CS1]

When the Holy spirit comes down upon you it's called the baptism of the Holy Spirit...that is different than water baptism.

Bapsim in water is you and I confirming what Christ has done in our life after we were saved. The Holy Spirit comes into you so you can beleive , then HE empower you to be a witness. Same Holy Spirit two workings of the same Holy SPirit. He is in you and On you . Read John chapter 14 & 16.

 

[CS1]

I believe that Christians should know that for themselves. But if someone doesn't know, then I agree, someone should tell them.


Again, I agree.

your right they should know amen but we are given Pastors, terachers, etc.. for the teaching of the body .

 

[shrume]

The first time the disciples received the Spirit was directly from Jesus, and it was a temporary impartation.

Jesus'breathing on them was not a "full immersion" of the Spirit.

I do not believe they received the gift of the Holy Spirit in John 20:22. I believe Jesus was giving them instruction for the soon coming day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was first poured out. The gift of the Holy Spirit, AKA power from on high, AKA the promise of the Father are all the same thing, and it did not happen until the day of Pentecost.

Neither was it on just "the twelve".

The phrase "the disciples" were always a different number each time they're mentioned.

In Luke 10:1 it was 70

In Acts 1:15, it was 120

In John 21, it's only 7, & not all of them were apostles.

It's never 12 unless it specifically says so.

Acts 1:
26) And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Acts 2:
1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Generally, a pronoun refers to its nearest antecedent. "They" in Acts 2:1 refers back to Matthias and the eleven.

Also:
Acts 2:
13) Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

That narrows it down to just men, and not women (who were part of the 120).

Acts 2:
14) But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

^^ another indication that it was the twelve that received the original outpouring.

 

[shrume]

Bapsim in water is you and I confirming what Christ has done in our life after we were saved. The Holy Spirit comes into you so you can beleive , then HE empower you to be a witness. Same Holy Spirit two workings of the same Holy SPirit. He is in you and On you . Read John chapter 14 & 16.

Actually, the Holy Spirit comes into your heart AFTER you believe, or WHEN you believed.

Eph 1: (KJV)
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1: (ESV)
13) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

(I'm not a Calvinist, can you tell? )

 

[CS1]

Actually, the Holy Spirit comes into your heart AFTER you believe, or WHEN you believed.

Eph 1: (KJV)
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1: (ESV)
13) In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

(I'm not a Calvinist, can you tell? )

The scriptures show us the Holy Spirit creates a godly sorrow so the person can see thier need for Christ. Then salvation can happen which then the Holy Spirit comes into the person . After the Holy Spirit is in the person HE then moves to empower them for witnessing and holy living