Baptism and holy spirit

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Mar 14, 2011
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There is ONE gift that cannot be seen unless it is manifested, brought forth - the gift of holy spirit which we receive when we repent and are baptized (Acts 2:38). This gift of holy spirit given to each believer can be manifested in nine ways. Just as the fruit of the spirit can be manifested in nine ways.

If I had one of the gift ministries - say a preacher . . . everyone would know that I am a preacher, it would be readily noticeable no need to "manifest" it. But when one is born again and receives the gift of holy spirit - how do we know? The manifestation of the spirit is NOT a gift - It is a manifestation. A gift is something voluntarily given by one person to another without compensation. God gives us the gift of holy spirit - it is not readily perceived by the senses but when it is manifested it is something that is readily perceived by the senses. Gift and manifestation are two completely different things.

As I have said before - we all receive the gift of holy spirit - the manifestation of said gift of holy spirit is given to every man to profit withal - it is the Lord who energizes as he purposes "all" the manifestations and spiritual things talked about in this chapter. That is how things are done decently and in order in a church meeting. Every believer has the power of holy spirit, but the way that power will be used at any given time depends on the purposes of God and upon our faith and willingness to step out and use the gift we have been given. Look, someone can give me a gift - I don't have to open it to manifest it - It can stay wrapped up in the box but I will never see it, I will never use it, I will never know the potential of that gift if I don't open it and use it.
Your making the gifts the manifestations, the passage does. Ot say that,

And i disagree, if you are a great teacher, that is one of the gifts, and it most definately manifests the HS has been given to you, (not everyone has been given the gift of pastor ir teacher, )

Again i do not know who taught you this stuff, but wow,
 
Feb 21, 2012
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The HS is manifested in each gift, as he gives to,eqch induvidually as he desires

I have commentators too

The bible knowledge commentary, john Walford, Roy Zuck

Paul had referred to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in verse 3. Now in reverse order he stressed the unity of the Godhead in relation to the different spiritual gifts. The Holy Spirit gives a diversity of gifts (cf. “Spirit” in vv. 7–9, 11) so that individuals can serve the Lord and His body, the church, in various ways (cf. vv. 7, 27), all empowered by God and exercised under His aegis (cf. vv. 18, 24). Though there are different kinds (diaireseis) of gifts … service, and working, the same Spirit … the same Lord (Christ), and the same God are involved in all of them.
12:7–10. The gifts had a unity in source (vv. 4–6), and they also had a unity in purpose. They were given, not for personal enrichment (cf. 14:4; 1 Peter 4:10), but for the common good of the body of Christ, the building up of others (1 Cor. 10:24; 14:12). Paul listed some of the gifts here. Others, along with some of these, are given in Romans 12:6–8; 1 Corinthians 12:28–31; Ephesians 4:11; 1 Peter 4:10–11.
The list here includes nine gifts. (1) Wisdom refers to insight into doctrinal truth. Paul exercised and expressed this gift in this letter (e.g., 2:6). (2) Knowledge refers to the ability to apply doctrinal truth to life. Paul also exercised and expressed this gift in this letter (e.g., 12:1–3; 11:3). (Cf. the recurrence of the phrase “Do you not know” in 3:16; 5:6; 6:2–3, 9, 15–16, 19; 9:13, 24; also cf. 8:1–3, 10–11). (3) Faith as a spiritual gift is probably an unusual measure of trust in God beyond that exercised by most Christians (e.g., 13:2). (4) Healing is the ability to restore health (e.g., Acts 3:7; 19:12) and also to hold off death itself temporarily (Acts 9:40; 20:9–10). (5) Miraculous powers may refer to exorcising demons (Acts 19:12) or inducing physical disability (Acts 13:11) or even death (Acts 5:5, 9). (6) Prophecy is the ability, like that of the Old Testament prophets, to declare a message of God for His people (1 Cor. 14:3). (7) Ability to distinguish between spirits is the gift to differentiate the Word of God proclaimed by a true prophet from that of a satanic deceiver (cf. 2 Cor. 11:14–15; 1 John 4:1). If the Corinthians possessed this gift (cf. 1 Cor. 1:7), it was not being put to good use (cf. 12:1–3). (8) Tongues refers to the ability to speak an unlearned, living language (e.g., Acts 2:11). (9) Interpretation was the ability to translate an unlearned, known language expressed in the assembly (1 Cor. 14:27).
With the possible exception of faith, all these gifts seem to have been confirmatory and foundational gifts for the establishment of the church (cf. Heb. 2:4; Eph. 2:20) and were therefore temporary.
12:11. The gifts were not meant to be selected by individuals or personally solicited by them, but were instead given by the … Spirit … as He determined. “The Spirit” is referred to six times in verses 7–11.
12:12. This verse forms an excellent three-part summary of the rest of the chapter. (a) The human body is a unit (cf. v. 13 on the unity of the body of Christ). (b) The human body has many parts, with a necessary diversity in its members (cf. vv. 14–20). (c) The parts of the human body work together as one, with a dependent mutuality as each part fulfills an important function (cf. vv. 21–26). Likewise the body of Christ has a diversity of parts functioning together (vv. 27–30).
12:13. The One who gave the diverse gifts, the Spirit, was also the medium in which, by which, and with which (possible translations of the Gr. preposition en; cf. Matt. 3:11) that unity exists. The baptism of the Spirit is experienced by all who believe, at the moment of salvation (cf. Rom. 8:9). In that baptism, believers, regardless of nationality (whether Jews or Greeks) or station of life (slave or free), are identified with Christ (baptized … into one body) and are indwelt by the Spirit (given the one Spirit to drink; cf. John 4:14; 7:38–39).
12:14–20. Different parts are needed if a body is to exist (v. 19). So too, no believer should think of himself or his gift as inferior and so desire another member’s gift. The gifts were not haphazardly distributed (cf. v. 11) but carefully arranged according to the perfect will of God (v. 18).
12:21–26. In the diversity of the bodily parts there was a corresponding mutual dependence. A person with a seemingly greater gift should not imagine that he could function alone since a bodily member cut off from the natural body would cease to exist. More importantly, one thought to possess a lesser gift should in fact be accorded greater attention by the other members of the body (cf. 14:1–5) just as in the natural body special deference in attention to dress is paid to those parts of the body deemed less presentable (12:22–24). Possibly Paul was reaching back in thought beyond the immediate discussion of gifts when he referred to weaker members (v. 22; cf. 8:7–13) and less honorable ones (12:23; cf. 11:22) who also required special care and consideration. This too was part of God’s plan (God … combined the members), that members of the spiritual body would demonstrate a mutual concern for the well-being of others (12:25b–26; 10:24, 33) so that rivalry would cease (so that there should be no division in the body; 1:10; 11:18) and genuine unity would exist (12:26).
12:27–31a. The unifying member in the spiritual body is Christ. As the Head (Eph. 1:22; cf. 1 Cor. 11:3) He possesses the body and sovereignly expresses His will. His command is that love should prevail among the members (John 15:12). This was the force which would maintain unity within the diversity and to this subject Paul would shortly move (1 Cor. 12:31b 13:13).
For a third time (cf. 12:18, 24, 28), however, Paul stressed the fact that God, not man, assigned the gifts. As he discussed another sample of gifts (some repeated from vv. 7–10 and some new), it was the members, the people so gifted, to whom he referred. Since the gifts included in the two lists in this chapter contain novelty and redundancy (which is the case elsewhere in passages detailing gifts, e.g., Rom. 12:6–8; Eph. 4:11; 1 Peter 4:10–11—the gift of teaching being the only gift which appears in each list), probably no complete catalog existed.
I agree that all the gifts, i.e. the gift ministries in Ephesians, exhortation, and leadership responsibilities, the gift of salvation are given by God. The gift of holy spirit is given by God to every believer when they are born again. The gift of holy spirit is on the inside of a believer and therefore has to be manifested to be "seen". The trouble with the Corinthians is they did not give credit to God but boasted about what they had been given, taking the credit for them as if they were spiritually powerful on their own.

I already know that MOST Christians think 1 Cor. 12:4-10 are collectively talking about gifts - namely it starts off in verse 1 - Now concerning spiritual gifts brethren I would not have you ignorant. The word "gifts" here has been added - the context is "spiritual matters" or "spiritual things" (pneumatikos) . . . Now there are diversities of gifts but the same Spirit. . . . there are distributions of gifts given by THE Holy Spirit (God). And there are distributions of administrations (service) but the same Lord . . . and there are distributions of operations (works), but it is the same God which works (energizes) all in all . . . BUT the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal. BUT - now the subject is changing from gifts, administrations (service) and works to manifestation of the spirit . . . the nine manifestations are listed and again God reiterates that it is still God that energizes dividing to every man severally as he will . . . The Lord does not energize all the manifestations in every person at the same time but at any given gathering of believers the Lord will energize different manifestations in different people in order that things stay decent and orderly.

Are we manifesting God, THE Holy Spirit himself or are we manifesting the gift of holy spirit that God has given us?
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Your making the gifts the manifestations, the passage does. Ot say that,

And i disagree, if you are a great teacher, that is one of the gifts, and it most definately manifests the HS has been given to you, (not everyone has been given the gift of pastor ir teacher, )

Again i do not know who taught you this stuff, but wow,
I agree the Holy Spirit gives you the gift of teaching, preaching, evangelizing, etc. How am I making the gifts the manifestations? I have clearly separated the gifts from the manifestations - it clearly says "But the manifestation of the spirit, etc. . . . I am not manifesting - bringing into evidence God, but I am bringing into evidence the gift of holy spirit that God has given me . . . that God energizes within me.

I don't agree with you either but I will not ridicule what you believe or what you have been taught.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I agree the Holy Spirit gives you the gift of teaching, preaching, evangelizing, etc. How am I making the gifts the manifestations? I have clearly separated the gifts from the manifestations - it clearly says "But the manifestation of the spirit, etc. . . . I am not manifesting - bringing into evidence God, but I am bringing into evidence the gift of holy spirit that God has given me . . . that God energizes within me.

I don't agree with you either but I will not ridicule what you believe or what you have been taught.
Thats where the disconnect is. And we we see differently

You seperate the gifts, where paul said all the body is made up of different parts, each being just as important, so we should not, as you said in your last reply, boast because we have a greater gift, or be sad because we have been given a lesser gift, God uses them all, a pastor is just as important as a prophet, is just as important to a person who has wisdom, or the person who spoke a language or the other who interpreted that spoken language

They are all gifts of God, all given for the purpose of the body, and outreach, and all manifest (declare or show the power of) the HS.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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One quick response before bed...

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

And I believe 1 Cor 14:28 can be understood to mean the same person. IE: "that same one".

G'nite!
Hi Shrume,

Thanks for the reply. And my apologies for not actually talking with you sooner. You are one of several people on here that I appreciate but haven't really talked with much.

On this topic, it seems you are rather invested in your current understanding. To me, that makes it difficulty to discuss any differences of views in a way that doesn't spark contention. But I guess I have one question I could ask.

In verse 5, would a person who provided the interpretation for "a message that came through someone else" be any less than a person who provided the interpretation for "a message that came through himself/herself"?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Hi Kelby,
Thanks for the reply. And my apologies for not actually talking with you sooner. You are one of several people on here that I appreciate but haven't really talked with much.

On this topic, it seems you are rather invested in your current understanding.
Aren't we all.. :)

To me, that makes it difficulty to discuss any differences of views in a way that doesn't spark contention. But I guess I have one question I could ask.

In verse 5, would a person who provided the interpretation for "a message that came through someone else" be any less than a person who provided the interpretation for "a message that came through himself/herself"?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
There are no instances in the Bible of a different person providing the interpretation for someone else's tongue. When a person speaks in tongues, he is to be the one that should interpret (1 Cor 14:5, 13). I'm certainly not saying that God could not inspire someone else to interpret: God frequently works with people according to their understanding. But I think we should follow what the Bible says, and it says that the person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret, and if he does not pray in tongues with the intent to interpret, he should keep silent, and pray to himself and to God (1 Cor 14:27-28).
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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There are no instances in the Bible of a different person providing the interpretation for someone else's tongue. When a person speaks in tongues, he is to be the one that should interpret (1 Cor 14:5, 13). I'm certainly not saying that God could not inspire someone else to interpret: God frequently works with people according to their understanding. But I think we should follow what the Bible says, and it says that the person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret, and if he does not pray in tongues with the intent to interpret, he should keep silent, and pray to himself and to God (1 Cor 14:27-28).
Fair enough answer. :)
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Hi Kelby,

Aren't we all.. :)
Shrume,

Well, sort of. :) Some are really wishy-washy and ought to seek things out until they can stand clearly on SOMETHING. But to them, I guess they stand strongly against any strong stand. lol

In all honesty, the first time I read your "Aren't we all" reply I thought you were answering my comment that "You are one of several people on here that I appreciate but haven't really talked with much." That kind of stopped me in my tracks because Yes, I should appreciate everyone on here (not promising that I do at the moment :) ) and with the possible exception of Stunnedbygrace I haven't spoken much with anybody. So your initial reply would have been surprisingly insightful if intended for my "several people" comment.

But I'll clarify my vague compliment anyway.

What i appreciate about you most (besides having the Holy Ghost) is that your particular stance on tongues encourages more people to step out in faith and try...because it is available to all.

We differ on some details, perhaps even within the details of that compliment. But when someone's stance encourages more people to reach for what is available and beneficial to them in God, that is something I specifically appreciate.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Hi Kelby,

Aren't we all.. :)


There are no instances in the Bible of a different person providing the interpretation for someone else's tongue. When a person speaks in tongues, he is to be the one that should interpret (1 Cor 14:5, 13). I'm certainly not saying that God could not inspire someone else to interpret: God frequently works with people according to their understanding. But I think we should follow what the Bible says, and it says that the person who speaks in tongues is to be the one to interpret, and if he does not pray in tongues with the intent to interpret, he should keep silent, and pray to himself and to God (1 Cor 14:27-28).
If that is the case, then why are some brothers given the manifestation (gift) of interpretation of tongues?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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All this ado over tongues and interpretations. What happened to Jesus? We fellowship together not to be entertained but to worship the Lord.

Sirs we would see Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Roger,

Who is stopping you from seeing, seeking, showing Jesus?

Tongues is something available to the believer through the Holy Ghost (spirit of Christ) & (Mark 16:17) , and this is a thread about baptism and the Holy Ghost. So it doesn't seem surprising that people are talking about it trying to assure it is done properly.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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I do not have the ability to speak in tongues, If God wanted me to do it, He would.

Again, It says to one he gives this gift, to another he gives that gift so on and so forth.

Not everyone has the gift of tongues, I do not know who told you that, but they are wrong.

Bit I digress, Will not bash my sister on this non salvic doctrine.
The Holy Spirit gives the ability you do the speaking. And the scriptures tell us to Desire spiritual gives and do not forbid speaking in tongues. A willing person will be used by God in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, both men and women .
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The Holy Spirit gives the ability you do the speaking. And the scriptures tell us to Desire spiritual gives and do not forbid speaking in tongues. A willing person will be used by God in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, both men and women .
So you think I am not willing?

Thats judgmental is it not?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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So you think I am not willing?

Thats judgmental is it not?
It is very funny how you are so confrontational, and self-indulged. I do not nor did I even mention you. Those who cry judgmental most of the time are themselves. The Bible is clear in the context of 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 God will use any believer in the Gifts of the Holy Spirt and we are according to 1cor 14 to desire them.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
1 Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.


how can anyone read this and not understand it?


if youre going to pretend every member of the body controls which gifts they recieve
then you shouldnt be here

you should be out healing the sick and those dying



we recieve the gifts are given to us


to some one gift

to another member of the body
another gift
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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how can anyone read this and not understand it?


if youre going to pretend every member of the body controls which gifts they recieve
then you shouldnt be here

you should be out healing the sick and those dying



we recieve which gifts are given to us


to some one gift

to another member of the body
another gift
you have to read the next two chapter of 13 and 14 that is how they are to be read. known as unity Chapters .
 
Mar 14, 2011
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It is very funny how you are so confrontational, and self-indulged. I do not nor did I even mention you. Those who cry judgmental most of the time are themselves. The Bible is clear in the context of 1cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 God will use any believer in the Gifts of the Holy Spirt and we are according to 1cor 14 to desire them.
You should look in the mirror

You responded to a post where i said I Do Not Speak in tongues by saying those who are willing can and will be used by speaking in tongues.

How else should i take that? You did not have to mention me by name, your responded to me sayi g i do not, thus it is insinuated you meant me.

I am not confrontational, i just want people to back what they claim

So again, why are you s judgmental in saying i do not desire the gift?
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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The Holy Spirit gives the ability you do the speaking. And the scriptures tell us to Desire spiritual gives and do not forbid speaking in tongues. A willing person will be used by God in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, both men and women .
I don't think EG was saying willing persons won't be used by the Spirit in the gifts of the Holy Spirit...and I don't think he's done any forbidding of speaking in tongues...