Baptism and holy spirit

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Waggles

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Sep 21, 2017
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Actually I have never blogged that you must speak in tongues to be saved.
That additional "requirement" has been added on by those opposing what I write.

I have only blogged that speaking, or rather praying, in tongues is the Bible evidence of being baptised in the
Holy Spirit. This is scriptural.

As to salvation for Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox and a multitude of other choices that is Jesus' business.
Faith in Jesus as our Redeemer and Saviour and an ongoing desire to serve him and others is good and right.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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You have never said one must speak in tongues to be saved? Really? You mostly do a lot of tapdancing around, but often, you say it pretty boldly. Like in these instances.

Praying in tongues is worshipping our Lord Jesus
in fact without tongues, without the indwelling Holy Spirit, scriptures declares that you cannot even call Jesus Lord.
And when I asked you, do all speak in tongues? You said this:
Yes all who are baptized in the Holy Spirit do.
So if you have made these above remarks, but are not saying one must speak in tongues to be saved, then do you think one can be saved without receiving the Holy Spirit?
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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the problem is when people pretend someone is not as far in their walk with Christ simply because they do not have a specific gift

you cannot choose

oh right now i have healing

let me heal my neice of her many disabilities


ive tried

but lets say YOU could heal my neice

that doesnt make you any more a member of the body than i am


im not saying its impossible for God to use me to heal

or for Him to just heal from a distance without the use of any of us brothers and sisters


what im saying is to those who falsely accuse others without the gift you have of being any less "a member of the body"


they are in error

one may not have the wisdom or faith that i have


but maybe they are far more humble and meek and patient

that doesnt mean either of us are less than the other

and that doesnt garuntee they will ever be as wise as me

or i will ever be as patient as them
I agree 100%. Paul even says, that the smaller "hidden" body parts deserve more glory. I have found that God is faithful to give to those who desires higher gifts, but this doesn't mean anyone is better than another. It's actually, imo, that the one with who desires gifts desires to have more to serve the Body with.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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So then your argument is with the scriptures and with God.
The scriptures explain how those who believe the gospel and are converted shall have signs that follow them.
One of these signs is that they shall speak in new tongues.

if you do not believe this then take it up with Jesus - afterall they are his words, not mine.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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And you wonder why I need to defend the gospel from mockers ...

Maxwell.png

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Peter 2:2
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I agree 100%. Paul even says, that the smaller "hidden" body parts deserve more glory. I have found that God is faithful to give to those who desires higher gifts, but this doesn't mean anyone is better than another. It's actually, imo, that the one with who desires gifts desires to have more to serve the Body with.
you know what i just realized?


i spelled niece wrong twice in a row right before i metaphorically called myself wise:geek:
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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So then your argument is with the scriptures and with God.
The scriptures explain how those who believe the gospel and are converted shall have signs that follow them.
One of these signs is that they shall speak in new tongues.

if you do not believe this then take it up with Jesus - afterall they are his words, not mine.
No, waggles, Jesus did not say that without the manifestation of tongues you cannot even call Him Lord. He did not even intone it. Neither did any apostle. YOU are the one who has said it.

The gospel is about the saving of mens souls because of the mercy of God and the Precious Blood.
To say that without the gift of tongues you cannot call Jesus Lord is a twisting and perversion of the gospel that saves you.

Stop dancing and saying:
I have never blogged that you must speak in tongues to be saved.
It is obfuscation and wile on top of a hideous twisting of the gospel that saves men.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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again if you have a issue with my response in context to the point of " Gifts of the Holy Spirit " that is your issue not mine.

lets look at what I did say shall we in context your post ?

you said:
"I do not have the ability to speak in tongues, If God wanted me to do it, He would.

Again, It says to one he gives this gift, to another he gives that gift so on and so forth.

Not everyone has the gift of tongues, I do not know who told you that, but they are wrong.

Bit I digress, Will not bash my sister on this non salvic doctrine. "


I responded:

"The Holy Spirit gives the ability you do the speaking. And the scriptures tell us to Desire spiritual gives and do not forbid speaking in tongues. A willing person will be used by God in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, both men and women .

there were you say: "Again, it says to one he gives this gift, to another he gives that gift so on and so forth".

What i'm pointing out is chapters 13, and 14 of 1cor tell us more .

chapter 12
1. the Holy Spirit gives the gifts to whom HE desires as you have correctly said
2. chapter 13 tell us the gifts are to be operated in Love
3. Chapter 14 tell us how to use them and to desire them and pray to be used by them.

Nothing in my response was about you however, if you think that if God wants you to be used in the Gifts HE will cause you to do so, I do not see in scripture were that happend in context to 1cor 12, 13, and 14. The Holy Spirit provides the ability you do the action.
I read it again,

And i ask you again why you judge me and claim i do not have the desire or am willing?
maybe if you had the full context of our discussion you would see that. But any rate. EG knows
Yes EG knows,

Twice you tried to defend yourself, and twice EG was judged.
No, waggles, Jesus did not say that without the manifestation of tongues you cannot even call Him Lord. He did not even intone it. Neither did any apostle. YOU are the one who has said it.

The gospel is about the saving of mens souls because of the mercy of God and the Precious Blood.
To say that without the gift of tongues you cannot call Jesus Lord is a twisting and perversion of the gospel that saves you.

Stop dancing and saying:


It is obfuscation and wile on top of a hideous twisting of the gospel that saves men.
remember he thinks your not born again until some man immerses you in water, and the baptism of the holy spirit (not anointing) is what gives you those great gifts to boast about.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Ok one thing i do not like about this new app is it does not delete posts you decided not to post, there has to be a way when you make a new reply, it deletes any old you may have started.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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Ok one thing i do not like about this new app is it does not delete posts you decided not to post, there has to be a way when you make a new reply, it deletes any old you may have started.
You have to just leave it there until you type at least one letter into the post box and then you can delete what you decided to not respond to. In fact, I do it right away. I type one letter and then delete the quote I don't want to use, which leaves only the one letter in the reply box, in case I decide to post later or a week from now and forget to check before I hit send. And then I forget to delete my one letter, so many of my posts begin with one random letter, such as "Z." :D
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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And you wonder why I need to defend the gospel from mockers ...

View attachment 183493

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Peter 2:2
It is not to mock if you disagree with someones interpretation of certain scriptures. And it is not to mock if you see someone preaching a different gospel and warn them about the territory they have wandered into.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You have to just leave it there until you type at least one letter into the post box and then you can delete what you decided to not respond to. In fact, I do it right away. I type one letter and then delete the quote I don't want to use, which leaves only the one letter in the reply box, in case I decide to post later or a week from now and forget to check before I hit send. And then I forget to delete my one letter, so many of my posts begin with one random letter, such as "Z." :D
Yeah i forgot and did not realise until to late to edit. Lol
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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LOL Not in this case.

Paul is not giving a positive affirmation of praying in tongues. It just is not in the text of 1 Cor 14.

While we have examples of converts speaking in tongues we do not ever have an example of anyone praying in tongues.

No private interpretation of scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
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Paul is not giving a positive affirmation of praying in tongues. It just is not in the text of 1 Cor 14.
I cannot understand how you come to your conclusions, Roger.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

While we have examples of converts speaking in tongues we do not ever have an example of anyone praying in tongues.
Speaking in tongues is praying in tongues.

1 Cor 14:
14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Speaking by the spirit of God (1 Cor 12:3), speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:5), and praying in tongues (1 Cor 14:14) are all referring to the identical act, the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Praying in tongues is worshipping our Lord Jesus
in fact without tongues, without the indwelling Holy Spirit, scriptures declares that you cannot even call Jesus Lord.

Absolutely incorrect. Show me a scripture that says that without tongues you cannot call Jesus Lord.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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It's just that any time we believe any item to be wrong...we're not likely going to be coveting to have/do it. Some things won't manifest unless we're really going after it. Mark 9:29
If that is true, then how would you explain the newly converted believers in Corinth that immediately spoke in tongues? They obviously weren't "earnestly seeking" being able to speak in tongues... they simply wanted to be saved and receive the Spirit, as was promised to ALL of us.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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What some of us have been trying to get people to see is that God does want every Christian to manifest the gift of Holy Spirit that He has given to them. Speaking in tongues is something any Christian can choose to do any time he wants to. The gift of the Holy Spirit is what enables you to do it. Doing it is up to you. It's not something God "uses you" for. I'll go back to what I said early in this thread: Most people do not understand what speaking in tongues is. Most think "well, if God wanted me to do it, He would cause me to do it." It does not work that way. You have the ability through the gift of the Holy Spirit, it's up to each Christian to manifest that gift by doing it. If you're waiting for God to move your mouth, it won't happen.
Please show scriptural evidence/proof that your interpretation of that is correct. I have never seen scripture that states that.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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I cannot understand how you come to your conclusions, Roger.

1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

18) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.


Speaking in tongues is praying in tongues.

1 Cor 14:
14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Speaking by the spirit of God (1 Cor 12:3), speaking in tongues (1 Cor 14:5), and praying in tongues (1 Cor 14:14) are all referring to the identical act, the manifestation of speaking in tongues.
Speaking in tongues and praying in tongues are not identical and interchangeable.

Paul makes it clear that in 1 Cor 14:14 it is his spirit that should he pray in tongues, not that he does pray in tongues, not the Holy Spirit.

When Paul prays with the Spirit he prays with understanding in contrast to praying in an unknown tongue without understanding. There is no fruit in praying or speaking without understanding either with the speaker or the hearer.

This is another example of sloppy exegesis. Just like baptism in the Holy Spirit and filling with the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 14:39 Is an injunction to allow someone who has a different tongue to speak and forbid him not provided there is someone there to interpret for the benefit of the others present that all my benefit from what the speaker says.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 21, 2012
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Thats where the disconnect is. And we we see differently

You seperate the gifts, where paul said all the body is made up of different parts, each being just as important, so we should not, as you said in your last reply, boast because we have a greater gift, or be sad because we have been given a lesser gift, God uses them all, a pastor is just as important as a prophet, is just as important to a person who has wisdom, or the person who spoke a language or the other who interpreted that spoken language

They are all gifts of God, all given for the purpose of the body, and outreach, and all manifest (declare or show the power of) the HS.
I didn't separate the gifts from the manifestations - God did -
But the manifestation of the spirit is given to EVERY man to profit withal. (KJV)
Now to each one the manifestation of the spirit is given for the common good. (NIV)

When "but" is used in a sentence it is to introduce an important point or to indicate a transition (as of ideas); when "now" is used it is to introduce a statement that adds something to a previous statement and usually contrasts with it in some way.

Yes, I agree that we are all part of the body of Christ and that each believer is just as important as another. We do not boast because of any gift nor because of any manifestation for it is the same Spirit working (energizing) all in all.

Some are gifts - some are manifestations - God specifically by revelation to Paul used these two very different words. And because I read it this specifically doesn't make what I have learned or been taught a "WOW" factor.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I didn't separate the gifts from the manifestations - God did -
But the manifestation of the spirit is given to EVERY man to profit withal. (KJV)
Now to each one the manifestation of the spirit is given for the common good. (NIV)


When "but" is used in a sentence it is to introduce an important point or to indicate a transition (as of ideas); when "now" is used it is to introduce a statement that adds something to a previous statement and usually contrasts with it in some way.

Yes, I agree that we are all part of the body of Christ and that each believer is just as important as another. We do not boast because of any gift nor because of any manifestation for it is the same Spirit working (energizing) all in all.

Some are gifts - some are manifestations - God specifically by revelation to Paul used these two very different words. And because I read it this specifically doesn't make what I have learned or been taught a "WOW" factor.
No sis, god did not

All the gifts that god gives manifests the hs, that is what the passage is stating,

He did not manifest the gifts, each gift manifests the HS.

If i speak in tongues and god gets glorified, he Hs is manifested in me, if i share my gift of knowl sge as the HS has gifted me, god is glorified and the spirit is manifested in me,

All i need is one gift to manifest the spirit