Baptism by Fire

[eternally-gratefull]

Remember that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable in doctrine (2Tim 3:16)... There just may be more than one type of fire being referred to in (Mt 3 & Lk 3).

Just because there MIGHT be does not mean it has to be. Can you show any reason in the passage in question why one should assume there to be two types of fires? Use context taken from the paragraphs in question.

Also, if your definition above in (red) is what you base your understanding upon, then explain what is meant in the following passage...
1Cor 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant , how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them : and that Rock was Christ.

Were the children of Israel (fathers), that were with Moses, who passed under the cloud and through the Red Sea, all (baptised with or placed into) Moses? What does that mean and how did that happen and does (v.3,4) give us some understanding of what it means? The cloud and fire was given before the law and continued after the law was given according to (Ex 13:21,22, and Ex 40:34-38)...

The same as 1 corinthians 12, where it states we were all baptised into one body by the Holy Spirit. We were placed INTO Christ. as Christ is the head. It is his Body. The CHildren of Isreal were placed into Moses. He was in charge, the cloud and the pillar of fire lead moses, and the children of Isreal followed him. Why do people want to make it so complicated when it is all very simple.

We are part of the body of Christ. Placed into that body (baptized) by the HS. Christ is the head of that body.l so we are said to be in Christ. because he is the head. God put all of Israel in Moses. He was the head of that Group. placed their by God so the people were said to be "in moses"

21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light ; to go by day and night: 22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 36 And when the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle, the children of Israel went onward in all their journeys: 37 But if the cloud were not taken up , then they journeyed not till the day that it was taken up . 38 For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.

Interesting.. Who was it that continually mediated between God and the children of Israel. Who is it that continually mediates for his children in the church? See how moses was a type of Christ. It all fits.

Remember after the Golden calf incident. God said he would only go before moses, and give him rest. Moses had to mediate for the rest of Israel. God Still only showed his presence to moses. God led moses, and through moses, the people were lead. Thus they were baptized INTO moses.

I think it would be safe to say that the people were baptized unto Moses in the cloud by day and the fire by night and through the miraculous trial of the Red Sea in the beginning of their journey from Egypt (the world) and from the bondage of Pharaoh. Also consider, when God puts a believer or a local assembly through a trial they are submersed into that trial (just as the three Hebrew boys were trust into the fiery furnace in Daniel 3) because of what God wants to produce in the heart of every believer. Trials test the word of God that we have heard and been given so that it will be profitable and produce fruit (Is 55:11, Jn 15:7,8).

This makes no sense whatsoever. The red sea or any of the other trials had nothing to do with it. The baptizing into moses just means they were placed into union with moses. It was the cloud and fire that led moses. The people followed moses, and by this went where God wanted them to. Much the same as Christ is our head. Your readin way to much into this!

I also think that it is vital that we learn what it means to be baptized by the word and have it immerse every fiber and bone of our being (Jer 20:9, Heb 4:12, Lk 24:32, Jer 23:28,29). That it would be a burning in our heart and occupy every imagination and thought of our life (2Cor 10:5, Is 55:7-11) as it becomes the spirit of burning (Is 4:1-6)...

1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying , We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach. 2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel. 3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: 4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning . 5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence. 6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.


Acts 7:30-38 And when forty years were expired , there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. 31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, 32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled , and durst not behold . 33 Then said the Lord to him, Put off thy shoes from thy feet: for the place where thou standest is holy ground. 34 I have seen , I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come , I will send thee into Egypt. 35 This Moses whom they refused , saying , Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush. 36 He brought them out , after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years. 37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear . 38 This is he , that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

When we take (1Jn 4:16) and also (Heb 12:29) and meditate on these two eternal attributes that reveal who God is along with the others scriptures mentioned, then it is not difficult to understand that fire does not always represent judgment... and the baptism of the Spirit is referenced to the baptism of burning fire (burning - Is 4:4) of God's love (Rom 5:5) that we can not be seperated from (Rom 8:35,39) nor can be quenched...

Song of Sol 8:4-7 I charge you, O daughters of Jerusalem, that ye stir not up , nor awake my love, until he please . 5 Who is this that cometh up from the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved? I raised thee up under the apple tree: there thy mother brought thee forth : there she brought thee forth that bare thee. 6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame. 7 Many waters cannot quench love, neither can the floods drown it: if a man would give all the substance of his house for love, it (the substance of his house) would utterly be contemned (insignificant) .

None of these things support your theory. Your right fire does not always represent judgment. But what is the context of the passage in question. Again, Just because it may not does not mean it should or does not. We should not twist Gods word to make it fit our beliefs. we should form our beliefs around Gods word. John told the religious Jews, many of whom sent Christ to be crucified and went to their death beds thinking they were justified in doing so, that Christ would baptize them. If he did not baptize them with the HS. then how did Christ baptize them? He had to according to Johns words to them.

so we are left with a few choices.

1. They were saved anyway. Christ did baptize them in the HS even though the rejected him till the day they died.

2. The will be baptized with fire. They were not baptized by the HS because they rejected the Good Nes (gospel) of Christ.

either way, we know one fact by what John said. Every man woman and child born today WILL be baptized by Christ. This is fact. Or else John was a liar. And God screwed up by having this thing written in his word. making him a liar.

 

[mymastertheking43]

Some interpret the baptism of fire as referring to the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven. “And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them” (Acts 2:2-3). It is important to note that these were tongues as of fire, not literal fire.

 

[silverwind]

Some interpret the baptism of fire as referring to the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven. “And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them” (Acts 2:2-3). It is important to note that these were tongues as of fire, not literal fire.

I think that would've been rather painful

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some interpret the baptism of fire as referring to the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was sent from heaven. “And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them” (Acts 2:2-3). It is important to note that these were tongues as of fire, not literal fire.

That is a good note to make. Because since it was not a literal fire. No one was baptised into it. Thus it could not be a baptism of or through fire.

 

[Cobus]

As usual, when people have opinions about a subject in the Bible, there is ONE PLACE where we can get the perfect Truth about this subject and that place is the Author of the Bible! Christ Jesus KNOWS the answer's and perfect revelation on ALL matters concerning the Kingdom. So I went to bed last night, about the FIRE BAPTISM/SPIRIT BAPTISEM..... This is what the Lord has to say about THE ONE BAPTISM!
Firstly Ephesians 4:5.... ONE LORD ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISM.... The fire and Spirit baptism is ONE BAPTISM.... And here is how it WORKS!!!! When God calls us He gives us to Jesus! (The first step of salvation) (Nobody comes to the Father except through ME.) John 14:6 (And nobody goes to Jesus except the Father DRAWS him to Jesus or gives him to Jesus.) . John 6:44, John 6:65. We are given to Jesus by Father, so that Jesus can purify us with the Truth! The Word of God is the Truth and Jesus Himself is the Truth! This is the purifying baptism, the baptism of DEATH! Where we as sinners DIE! This is the SUBMERGING STAGE! This stage is the repent and laying down our lives for HIS NAME stage. (Whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it! (Mark 8:35) Ah! We die off the old man 100%. The submerging stage, and only if we DIE, we can be RESURRECTED, given a new LIFE, be reborn, be recreated into the image and likeness of God! Except a a corn of wheat fall into the ground AND DIE, it bares no fruit! (John 12:24.) This means: no death, no baptism of Spirit. The submerged stage is where we die! The baptism of fire! The Baptism INTO JESUS CHRIST! For we are baptized into Jesus Chrsit and we are baptized into his DEATH! We (the old we) also die there! Dead and buried to NEVER rise again! (Romans 6:3 and 4) The old has passed behold ALL WILL BE MADE NEW! 2 Cor 5:17. And when we are dead then we believe God will RESURRECT us as Jesus was RESURRECTED! And this is the THROUGH JESUS Baptism. The forst was INTO JESUS, and the second part is the taking OUT OF THE JESUS part! After the submerging follows the "taking out part". The RISE part! The RISEN part. And this RISIN person is not you, as you are now, it is you as God wants you to be... PERFECT LIKE JESUS! This is the SPIRIT BAPTISM! Only THEN were you baptized with FIRE AND SPIRIT!
It is ONE BAPTISM that may take SEVERAL YEARS! The time it takes is up to God! Only Him! You have NO influence on His time!
Let us look how the whole Bible just comes together here in the baptism of fire and Spirit.
Many are called few are chosen. MAny seed were sown few grew to produce fruit! Some people are called and given to Jesus and they hear the Truth but it goes in and out these are the seed that fell on the roadway, and the birds ate it. Then there are people that last a little longer in the "FIRE" they are the seed that fel on shallow ground between the rocks. They quicly grow in little Truth and then the fire (sun) gets hot and they scorge away! And so forth, but then you get the people that outlasts the FIRE BAPTISM, and they die off ALL sin in their lives and then God takes them out of the fire-baptism and they recieve the Holy Spirit as the only indwelling Spirit in them... They are now resurrected Holy Spirit people. Edified into the Body of Christ... In Chrsit Jesus, and Through Chrsit... There lives are now hid In Father God with Christ. Reborn of God! This is the ONE BAPTISM.
Baptize me please Lord! Amen!

 

[WordGaurdian]

There is no baptism by fire...it took me a long time to discover it as well. The reason why it confused me, because it is not mentioned in 1 John 5

But then I took the scripture from the original greek Bible and it reads a bit different.

here is a program on this site that enables you to show you the greek to english. really is fascinating.
www.scripture4all.org

it goes like this.

I indeed am baptising you in water into repentance, the One yet after me coming stronger of me is of whom not i am enough the sandals to bear he you shall baptise in spirit holy and to-fire (which is the greek word PURI)

Now try to see it in this light and it will make more sense...
I indeed baptise you in water unto repentance, yet the One after me that is stronger than me, of whom I am not worthy to bear His sandals, He shall baptise you in spirit, holy and "to be pure/cleansed"

I'm not trying to rewrite the Bible. But it just makes more sense since in the greek there wasn't commas and full stops, but it sounds more logical to say He baptise us in the spirit (to be holy and pure) especially since the way the scripture was written.

I hopes this helps someone...

 

[zone]

There is no baptism by fire...it took me a long time to discover it as well. The reason why it confused me, because it is not mentioned in 1 John 5

But then I took the scripture from the original greek Bible and it reads a bit different.

here is a program on this site that enables you to show you the greek to english. really is fascinating.
www.scripture4all.org

it goes like this.

I indeed am baptising you in water into repentance, the One yet after me coming stronger of me is of whom not i am enough the sandals to bear he you shall baptise in spirit holy and to-fire (which is the greek word PURI)

Now try to see it in this light and it will make more sense...
I indeed baptise you in water unto repentance, yet the One after me that is stronger than me, of whom I am not worthy to bear His sandals, He shall baptise you in spirit, holy and "to be pure/cleansed"

I'm not trying to rewrite the Bible. But it just makes more sense since in the greek there wasn't commas and full stops, but it sounds more logical to say He baptise us in the spirit (to be holy and pure) especially since the way the scripture was written.

I hopes this helps someone...

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.


4442
N-DSN
πυρί·
puri
fire

4442. pur​

fire​

Original Word: πῦρ, πυρός, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pur
Phonetic Spelling: (poor)
Short Definition: fire, trials
Definition: fire; the heat of the sun, lightning; fig: strife, trials; the eternal fire.

~

fiery, fire.

A primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specially, lightning) -- fiery, fire.

&#960;&#8166;&#961; (pur) &#8722; 26 Occurrences << click

&#960;&#965;&#961;&#943; (puri) &#8722; 17 Occurrences << click

&#960;&#965;&#961;&#972;&#962; (puros) &#8722; 28 Occurrences << click

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no baptism by fire...it took me a long time to discover it as well. The reason why it confused me, because it is not mentioned in 1 John 5

But then I took the scripture from the original greek Bible and it reads a bit different.

here is a program on this site that enables you to show you the greek to english. really is fascinating.
www.scripture4all.org

it goes like this.

I indeed am baptising you in water into repentance, the One yet after me coming stronger of me is of whom not i am enough the sandals to bear he you shall baptise in spirit holy and to-fire (which is the greek word PURI)

Now try to see it in this light and it will make more sense...
I indeed baptise you in water unto repentance, yet the One after me that is stronger than me, of whom I am not worthy to bear His sandals, He shall baptise you in spirit, holy and "to be pure/cleansed"

I'm not trying to rewrite the Bible. But it just makes more sense since in the greek there wasn't commas and full stops, but it sounds more logical to say He baptise us in the spirit (to be holy and pure) especially since the way the scripture was written.

I hopes this helps someone...

The same greek word is used in vs 17. also it is used in mk 9:44 speaking about how the fire will never be quenched, and the worm will not die. speaking of hell. also matt 18: 8 also speaking of hell or the everlasting fire.

Using Greek is nice. But if you do this. one must use ALL the defenitions of the word used. Then take context into account. The pharisees understood what hell was. John spoke of two things jesus would baptize with. He explained what he meant in vs 17.

Yes greek has no commas or full stops. But the way you wrote it does not make sense. It would make sense if the word "and" was not there. As it would say baptise with HS to be cleansed. But it makes no sense to say baptise with HS and to be cleansed. Especially since it is the HS baptism which cleanses us. Using the word and would signify another baptism, Also. Every time the HS is mentioned. The words spirit and holy are used. It is what separates the hs from some other spirit. Holy was not a wor4d to describe what would happen to us.

 

[zone]

THE BAPTISM OF JESUS:

1) The Lord was baptised with the HOLY SPIRIT at the Jordan (John saw the dove as a sign).

2) The Lord was baptised by John in WATER in the Jordan.

3) The Lord was baptised with FIRE:


a) at the Jordan.

b) on Calvary.

c) ___________.


~


Matthew 3:37
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 5:9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 3
whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;

2435. hilastérion​

propitiatory​

Original Word: &#7985;&#955;&#945;&#963;&#964;&#942;&#961;&#953;&#959;&#957;, &#959;&#965;, &#964;&#972;
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: hilastérion
Phonetic Spelling: (hil-as-tay'-ree-on)
Short Definition: a sin offering, covering
Definition: (a) a sin offering, by which the wrath of the deity shall be appeased; a means of propitiation, (b) the covering of the ark, which was sprinkled with the atoning blood on the Day of Atonement.



2 Corinthians 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[zone]

So what does this have to do with charismatic experience?

There are differences, but also significant parallels between charismatic and yoga teaching on supernatural powers and gifts. Hindus refer to gift development as "siddhi mastery" and charismatics call it "awakening the prophetic," but for the most part they are, as we will see, talking about the same things. Many charismatics claim siddhi-like "third eye" powers to see and hear angels. They also claim to read people's thoughts, discern illnesses and tell the future. And they believe they experience increased love for God through soaking prayer.

Yet another parallel is the need for a spiritual initiation experience. Hindus have the "kundalini awakening," and charismatics the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or "second blessing."

In the minds of both groups this experience necessarily precedes the development of supernatural, or spiritual, gifts. The second blessing is regarded by charismatics as the initiation into a fully intimate and "anointed" relationship with God, but is eerily akin to a kundalini awakening in that the initiate experiences rapture, speaks in tongues and may emerge with supernatural abilities. Compare the following charismatic (Pentecostal) and yoga teachings:

Charismatic:

Should Christians Seek the Second Baptism? The first matter to consider is a vitally important one. It lies at the very heart of Pentecostal teaching. It controls and colors their whole view of the Christian life. It is the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. According to them this is the blessing to be sought, the experience to strive for, the greatest and highest achievement of the Christian man and woman. What is this great spiritual blessing? It is a special post-conversion gift and experience in which the Holy Spirit is poured out on you in all His fullness, with special power to enable you to have things and do things you cannot have and do otherwise.[2](emphasis original)
​

Yoga:

Shaktipat means "touch of the shaktipat" or Initiation. Shaktipat is the spiritual initiation given by a divine Master; the inner quickening. Shaktipat is synonymous with the baptism of Christianity, and the anointing of Judaism. The real baptism is an actual psycho-spiritual event, one experienced by those of many faiths who develop devotion combined with purity. It represents the beginning of the awakening and unfolding of the inner power of kundalini-shakti, and is often accompanied by marvelous events and perception….After receiving shaktipat, the divine shakti itself unfolds the spiritual development of the devotee.[3](emphasis original)
​

The reader can see that both the second blessing and the kundalini awakening are believed to initiate the seeker into a mysterious world of occult gift development. Let's allow yogis and charismatics to speak for themselves in the next few pages, as we consider the special powers and perceptions gained through these experiences.

Charismatic Prophetic Development and Yoga Siddhi Mastery Compared

 

[zone]

Occult Sanctification

A further belief shared by yogis and charismatics has to do with how we are sanctified unto holiness, or how we attain spiritual purity. Both rely on occult presence or power, believing they are literally “washed,” purified and made holy by the power or influence of occult spirit. Practitioners see their role as largely passive; once they connect with a manifest spirit they simply lie back and submit to a sort of mystic “bath" or occult "fire" which is supposed to take away all their sins and impurities. Let us look at the yogic view:

Awakened kundalini in someone will do complete cleansing and purificiation on chakras, layers of the bodies, and eteric channels. After passing the cleansing and purification processes, a person can have different psychic powers and a higher level of consciousness.[18]
​

This writer expresses the view that after mystic cleansing a person magically develops a “higher consciousness.” The kundalini power is seen as having a purifying effect by directly touching and cleansing. This is clearly occult. Disturbingly, charismatics express similar views. Consider the following testimony from “Bill," who believes that only after mystic cleansing is he ready to“enter the inner chamber” and be closer to God:

[As] I lay there in the wonderful presence of God on me I became aware of the Holiness and the love and the wrath and His Mercy and majesty of God in a way that I had never known. Now, I understood why I had to be cleansed that time…I knew at the time that I was saved but there was a cleansing that needed to take place before I could enter the inner chamber, the Holy of Holies where God would speak to me...[19]
​

While under the influence of a manifest spirit, Bill had a powerful, apparently holy experience. He felt moved to reverence for “God.” I accept what he says about his feelings. But, he also gained the impression that he needed a mystic cleansing before God would speak to him, before he could come close to God.

Is this what Scripture teaches? Not at all.

This is occult thinking. This is what Satan wants us to think, and this is how he draws unsuspecting seekers repeatedly back to occult worship.

Biblical teaching has not changed in two thousand years; it is faith and faith alone that opens the curtains to the Holy of Holies, the place where the spirit of man can meet with the Spirit of God.

Sanctification is very real and very important, but it is not what ushers us into His presence. We come as we are, the only requirement being that we turn and believe. An old hymn expresses this very well: “Just as I am He will receive, because His promise I believe”. In fact, the time of conversion—when sanctification scarecely begun—is for many believers an exquisite experience of intimacy with the Father. But Bill, and countless others like him, have been led to seek repeated occult communion with demonic spirits, thinking that this is how they can be made clean. How satanic it is.

Splashing, surging, flushing and purging

Let’s examine more samples of occult thinking about spiritual “cleansing.” In the next quotation a Reiki instructor advertises a course on the cleansing power of kundalini “fire”:

Kundalini Reiki 2—All channels are strengthened. Kundalini Awakening—main energy channel opens gently and surely, alighting the Kundalini “fire"…You are also taught a specific meditation. When you perform this meditation, you increase in a short time, the power of the flame in the Kundalini fire/energy. In this way, all the chakras/energy systems are enlightened and a cleansing takes place.[20]
​

This instructor says we need kundalini “fire” flowing through opened chakras to cleanse and enlighten the soul. What do charismatics say? Let’s look at the teaching of Carol C., who echoes this idea, except in her view the cleansing comes with “hurricane strength”:

We need the love of the Father flowing freely through us. And that love only flows when our soul is cleansed—a cleansing that requires the hurricane strength wind and drenching rain of God’s Spirit. So throw away that umbrella of fear and soak in the Holy Spirit. Just say: “More, Lord. I want more of you!”[21]
​

Similar occult ideas abound in charismatic thought, worship and practice. Sometimes, during prayer, charismatics pretend they are “splashing” water from a spiritual “river” onto a person, supposedly assisting the cleansing process. A line in a charismatic song says,“Into the river I will wade, there my sins are washed away.” This is an occult perversion of biblical teaching on the blood of Jesus.

Another occult concept is “purging”—like washing, but a more violent application of occult power upon the soul. Mysteria, the yoga teacher, says purging by kundalini can be painful. Devotees sometimes vomit, supposedly part of the process. But we saw in chapter 3 that charismatics also vomit as a result of their practices. Some also believe this is part of a spiritual cleansing process. For example:

What I do know [is] that vomiting is quite often a part of deliverance, and it is certainly a result of Holy Spirit movement…I do know, also, that in renewal meetings demons do quite often manifest among people in the congregation—this is due to the Holy Spirit moving so mightily in such meetings.[22]
​

Charismatic Pat C. has fallen completely for the occult idea of spiritual “purging.” She prophesied as follows:

Beginnings of Purging Fire: A baptism with fire will visit many individuals and churches in 2004 who have been passionately seeking for purging in their lives. A purification season is going to visit the church as a move of purging begins. This purging process will begin to separate the “wheat from the tares.”[23]

Charismatic Prophetic Development and Yoga Siddhi Mastery Compared


and so on.........
​

 

[AnandaHya]

A primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specially, lightning) -- fiery, fire.

&#960;&#8166;&#961; (pur) &#8722; 26 Occurrences << click

&#960;&#965;&#961;&#943; (puri) &#8722; 17 Occurrences << click

&#960;&#965;&#961;&#972;&#962; (puros) &#8722; 28 Occurrences << click


[/COLOR]

Interesting. when I get some time I'm going to have to do a study on the different usage of the word "fire" in the Bible. thanks for the links

 

[Abiding]

False teacher and false prophets have and will use scripture and use it decietfully. That does not mean we have to demolish the scripture and read into it. And make up all sorts of alternative readings.

babtism is not a placing in. it is a in and out thing, for cleansing, like in the lavar. if this thread is gona be so weird that we have to be told the fire on penticost wasnt real...da...then in first peter id say that the fire in our trials wasnt real. or that the wood hay and stubble and the fire at our judgement isnt real. As a Christian you can be washed and regenerated by the washing of the word by the Holyspirit, and if need be by fiery trials.

All i can see here is two agendas.....both against false teachings...one apparently against those who dont think Jesus will burn the chaff, the other who dont like the charismatic teachings. Well neither of them can find their ideas in these verses. So leave the verses as they are.

 

[zone]

False teacher and false prophets have and will use scripture and use it decietfully. That does not mean we have to demolish the scripture and read into it. And make up all sorts of alternative readings.

babtism is not a placing in. it is a in and out thing, for cleansing, like in the lavar. if this thread is gona be so weird that we have to be told the fire on penticost wasnt real...da...then in first peter id say that the fire in our trials wasnt real. or that the wood hay and stubble and the fire at our judgement isnt real. As a Christian you can be washed and regenerated by the washing of the word by the Holyspirit, and if need be by fiery trials.

All i can see here is two agendas.....both against false teachings...one apparently against those who dont think Jesus will burn the chaff, the other who dont like the charismatic teachings. Well neither of them can find their ideas in these verses. So leave the verses as they are.

thanks for your input Abiding.
i have the right to handle God's word, and i have done so carefully, and with documentation.
take some more time to ponder the passage if you like, or leave it be.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

thanks for your input Abiding.
i have the right to handle God's word, and i have done so carefully, and with documentation.
take some more time to ponder the passage if you like, or leave it be.

Agreed. He says Baptism is an in and out thing. How were the children of Israel baptized "in and out" of Moses? sounds a little perverted and strange.

I am amazed at how so many definitions of a word which is not even native to the English language we have..

 

[Abiding]

thanks for your input Abiding.
i have the right to handle God's word, and i have done so carefully, and with documentation.
take some more time to ponder the passage if you like, or leave it be.

or leave what be?

 

[Abiding]

Oh right Zone you started this thread. Is that what you mean leave it be?

I never meant "you" cant handle the Word of God ...but to take a verse that says He will babtise you with the Holyspirt and fire....and break it up and say.. babtism of fire ...then examine it, isnt right. I never had an issue with your understanding or belief on the text..id have to reread what ive written but i dont think i ever talked againt that...becuase the main parts of it are true.

 

[Abiding]

Agreed. He says Baptism is an in and out thing. How were the children of Israel baptized "in and out" of Moses? sounds a little perverted and strange.

I am amazed at how so many definitions of a word which is not even native to the English language we have..

Well i may be wrong here as far as what babtism is, but that it is a type or a picture or simultude of dyiing being buried and ressurected into newness of life. Isreal isnt in the sea.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well i may be wrong here as far as what baptism is, but that it is a type or a picture or simultude of dyiing being buried and resurrected into newness of life. Isreal isnt in the sea.

That is just it. The greeks did not use the word "baptizo" to mean dieing, or even symbolize buried and resurrected again. This aspect is only given to Christian water baptism as a whole as a symbol to Christ. (Baptize with water). In fact it is not even in any Greek definition of the word. It is only found in the modern English definition of a word which is not even native to the English language. And technically only refers to christian water baptism. Thus we should not interpret the word every time we see it in this English interpretation. But use the Greek. For when the NT writers wrote it. the English definition did not even exist yet.

 

[SantoSubito]

Personally I class it with baptism of blood, better known as martyrdom.