Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

wattie · Dec 22, 2017

As others have put it..

It is not needed to be eternally saved, but if you are to serve God fully, immersion in water is needed as a pre requisite to serving Jesus completely. I believe it allows a believer to join a biblical church. Have a look at verses about eternal salvation that have no baptism and then also look at what believers did before joining a New Testament church.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 22, 2017

wattie said:

One would expect that after studying the New Testament, the matter would be cut and dried. Instead we have endless disputings about believer's baptism. And Paul says that this indicates spiritual immaturity (Heb 6:1,2):

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection [spiritual maturity]; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

DJ2 · Dec 23, 2017

WingsOfFidelity said:

I understand that getting baptized in water is a way to show obedience. However, I do not believe one has to in order to show obedience. The theif on the cross didn't get baptized:

Luke 23:39-43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

And you know this how?

MarcR · Dec 23, 2017

It is NOT required for Salvation. If physically possible, it is required for obedience after one is already saved.

DJ2 · Dec 23, 2017

Magenta said:

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. The baptism that saves
is not by water and hands of men but by the Holy Spirit of God.

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"

As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches through careful consideration of the language and context of the verse. We also filter it through what we know the Bible teaches elsewhere on the subject. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation is a faulty interpretation.

Regarding Mark 16:16, it is important to remember that there are some textual problems with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20. There is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark or whether they were added later by a scribe. As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake handling, unless it is also supported by other passages of Scripture.

Assuming that verse 16 is original to Mark, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The short answer is, no, it does not. In order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says. What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with the countless verses where only belief is mentioned (e.g., John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). This verse is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.

While this verse tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would be necessary, viz., “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

Those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious mistake that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy. This is the rule to follow: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations (or opposites) of that statement are also true." For example, the statement “a dog with brown spots is an animal” is true; however, the negative, “if a dog does not have brown spots, it is not an animal” is false. In the same way, “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” is true; however, the statement “he who believes but is not baptized will not be saved” is an unwarranted assumption. Yet this is exactly the assumption made by those who support baptismal regeneration.

Consider this example: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, but those that do not believe are condemned." This statement is strictly true; Kansans who believe in Jesus will be saved. However, to say that only those believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. The statement does not say a believer must live in Kansas in order to go to heaven. Similarly, Mark 16:16 does not say a believer must be baptized. The verse states a fact about baptized believers (they will be saved), but it says exactly nothing about believers who have not been baptized. There may be believers who do not dwell in Kansas, yet they are still saved; and there may be believers who have not been baptized, yet they, too, are still saved.

The one specific condition required for salvation is stated in the second part of Mark 16:16: “Whoever does not believe will be condemned.” In essence, Jesus has given both the positive condition of belief (whoever believes will be saved) and the negative condition of unbelief (whoever does not believe will be condemned). Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty that belief is the requirement for salvation. More importantly, we see this condition restated positively and negatively throughout Scripture (John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:53-54; John 8:24; Acts 16:31).

Jesus mentions a condition related to salvation (baptism) in Mark 16:16. But a related condition should not be confused with a requirement. For example, having a fever is related to being ill, but a fever is not required for illness to be present. Nowhere in the Bible do we find a statement such as “whoever is not baptized will be condemned.” Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 or any other verse.

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? No, it does not. It clearly establishes that belief is required for salvation, but it does not prove or disprove the idea of baptism being a requirement. How can we know, then, if one must be baptized in order to be saved? We must look to the full counsel of God’s Word. Here is a summary of the evidence:

1—The Bible is clear that we are saved by faith alone. Abraham was saved by faith, and we are saved by faith (Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22).

2—Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g., Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).

3—Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures tell us that we have eternal life the moment we believe (John 5:24), and belief always comes before being baptized. Baptism does not save us any more than walking an aisle or saying a prayer saves us. We are saved when we believe.

4—The Bible never says that if one is not baptized then he is not saved.

5—If baptism were required for salvation, then no one could be saved without another party being present. Someone must be there to baptize a person before he can be saved. This effectively limits who can be saved and when he can be saved. The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to a logical conclusion, are devastating. For example, a soldier who believes on the battlefield but is killed before he can be baptized would go to hell.

6—Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24)—all before he or she is baptized.

If you believe in baptismal regeneration, you would do well to prayerfully consider whom or what you are really putting your trust in. Is your faith in a physical act (being baptized) or in the finished work of Christ on the cross? Whom or what are you trusting for salvation? Is it the shadow (baptism) or the substance (Jesus Christ)? Our faith must rest in Christ alone. “We have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7). https://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Mark-16-16.html

You are but blanting filtering your interpretation through a preconceived notion. You are using the same logic as the RCC and Mormon Church.

"Your interpretation must be faulty since it goes against the church's teaching".

On your interpretation of Mark 16:16, I doubt you would use such mental gymnastics on other verses or even secular issues.

Your

reasoning is clearly a sign of fighting the obvious meaning of the verse. The unbelievers are those who are condemned, adding "and the unbaptized" is textually and spiritually unnecessary.

This is but a straw man. This "unwarranted assumption" is only made by those fighting the clear meaning of the verse and not the other side. I will not attack this "unwarranted assumption".

Both examples are clear assumptions.

This article is written based on a number of assumptions and the possibility of the Bible being in error. Not an article I would present as proof of anything.

FlyingDove · Dec 28, 2017

A few types of baptism
Baptism of repentance - for Nation of Israel only: - Under the Gospel of the Kingdom message:
Baptism of repentance was John the Baptist ministry for the Nation of Israel only. A call of Repentance from breaking covenant with the LORD Jeremiah 31:32. Water baptism here is Jewish purification/cleasning doctrine preparing themselves for the soon coming prophesied & promised Messiah.

John the Baptist proclaimed:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptise you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptise you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire:
(NOTE: John Baptises with water. The coming Messiah will Baptise with the Holy Spirit & with fire)

Matt 3:11 & Luke 3:16, The baptism into Christ's body via the Holy Spirit. Is a covenant of spiritual circumcision, done without hands and without water.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: A circumcision "made without hands")

NOTE: Translators Capitalized Spirit in the beginning & end of the vs. signifying deity/Godhead.
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Baptised by ONE SPIRIT the HOLY SPIRIT. Into one body The Body of Christ. And no water is used)

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

Deut 30:6 (A) The LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter (NOTE: Believers are circumcised thru a spiritual baptism/covenant. Not thru Law keeping)

HERES WHAT HAPPENS AT THE MOMENT YOU ACCEPT CHRIST:
Eph 1:3 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed ""ye were sealed with that holy Spirit''" of promise
(NOTE: The gospel of your salvation is: You heard & believed/trusted. In the Redemptive Sin Atoning Sacrifice. Found in the death, burial & resurrection of Jesus the Christ. And were immediately Sealed with God's Holy Spirit)

14 Which is the down payment of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is God's sealed down payment on our redemption. And soon Christ will redeem what he purchased on the cross)

Ephesians 4:30 Grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. It a pomise & a guarded the soon Christ will come for us)

New Testament Baptism in water:
Water baptism is an emblem of the true spiritual circumcision/baptism. Water baptism is an outwardly public profession of dying to sin, being buried (when we go under) and of being raised together with Christ in new spiritual resurrection life.

John 12:24 Verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground & die, "it abideth alone" "but if it die" "it bringeth forth much fruit"
(NOTE: One must die to self in order to bring forth good Godly friut. Faith & faith alone in Christ's payment is the only requirement for salvation)

NO WATER USED AT THESE BAPTISMS EITHER:
Mark 10:38 Jesus said can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
(Jesus is speaking of His baptism into death. No water is used)

1 Peter 3:20 talks about the days of Noah and eight souls were saved by water. They were inside the Ark. No water is used!

1 Cor 2:10 when the Nation passes through the red sea and were baptised into Moses. They crossed on dry land. No water is used!

Acts 1:5 (Temple Mt/Pentecost) John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. No water is used!

The baptism of Fire:
Fire is a symbol of judgment. See Isaiah 5:24, Isaiah 66:24. John the Baptist spoke of this: Its for unbelievers at the final judgment. Like the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, only Christ the final judge can can baptize with an everlasting judgment.

Bladerunner · Dec 28, 2017

mailmandan said:

What everyone has left out, forgotten or otherwise don't know is the fact that Baptism was phased out starting from the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and Paul's teachings in Acts 16:29-33. Compare this with Acts 8:35-37 and then compare these with Acts 2:38.

The Jewish community had to be weened from the Laws of Moses (Baptism by Water) to Baptism by the Blood of Christ. One only needs to look from the time of John the Baptist's Ministry thru Jesus Christ's Ministry, Jesus' death, burial and resurrection to the time of Pentecost in Acts 2. From there it is easily discerned that only Baptism by the Blood of Christ would remove the sins of a person.

We all take baths and all the water does is wash our flesh. Why did Jesus have to DIE if Baptism by Water is all that is needed????

Hope everyone has a safe and productive New Year!
Blessing to ALL

Blade

Nehemiah6 · Dec 28, 2017

Bladerunner said:

There is absolutely no evidence in Scripture that believer's baptism was ever "phased out", so you have come up with your own theory. Baptism was commanded in the Great Commission, and throughout the book of Acts we see that the apostles consistently obeyed this command. And ever since water baptism has remained as one of the Christian ordinances. Undoubtedly many have taught that baptism is essential for salvation, but that does not change the fact that baptism was NEVER phased out.

DJ2 · Dec 28, 2017

Bladerunner said:

Where in the Law of Moses is Baptism by Water?

Where in the New Testament is Baptism by Blood of Christ?

Seriously, where do you get such nonsense?

All the clear examples of baptism in the Bible and this is what you come up with?

Bladerunner · Dec 29, 2017

DJ2 said:

First of all< I think you are trying to start something....... You know exactly Moses Law and Baptism.

The Blood (Spirit) of Christ is just that..HE shed His Blood in Hopes that people would believe in him. It was His Blood that washed away sins of THE man who will Believe in Him. (1 Cor 15:1-4)....NOT WATER!

If WATER could carry away our sins then why did Jesus HAVE TO DIE....It was not an accidental event.

John the Baptist (under the Law of Moses) immersed Jews to Cleanse them for the upcoming CHrist...In fact, that was his only job.

I have read some of your post, I am not impressed.

Waggles · Dec 29, 2017

Of course it is absolutely necessary to be baptized by full immersion
in water.
Jesus did it as a demonstration to fulfill all righteousness.
Jesus commanded it more than once in the gospels.

To become a Christian Peter tells us in response to the question:
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the
name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off,
even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves
from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there
were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:

Peter again writes of baptism as an expression of a good conscience towards
God unto obedience - that is not arguing with the commandments of God.

Romans chapter 6 is all about water baptism and the symbolism and purpose of such.
Death and burial to the old person, rising up to embrace resurrection in Christ Jesus;
hence also the need for Holy Spirit baptism.

Acts is full of examples showing that Christians were baptized in water and then
also sought for the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Verses pertaining to baptism are scattered all throughout the epistles because it
was expected that ALL converts were baptized by full immersion and baptized
in the Holy Spirit.

Obedience is what discipleship is all about.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,
calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16

Waggles · Dec 29, 2017

Archeology and the remaining Byzantine/Roman churches of the
2nd to 4th centuries all have pools and large water tanks for the
full immersion baptism of new converts.

here is an image of the large adult sized baptism bath with also a
beautiful canopy that was part of a Christian house where a New
Testament church would have gathered for worship meetings, etc.
Excavations in Dura Europos.

DJ2 · Dec 29, 2017

Bladerunner said:

These are your words, own them.

Again, all the clear passages about baptism and you come up with these two bizarre notions?

Water baptism in the Law of Moses? Blood baptism?

I have not even heard Trust Only Regenerationists make such odd remarks.

Baptism is part of the Great Commission and you think its being "phased out"?

Waggles · Dec 29, 2017

manschild said:

Yes the two baptisms go together.
Paul confirms this -

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection;
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead,
and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Hebrews 6:

Waggles · Dec 30, 2017

Ethiopia

walk in as an unconverted sinner emerge the other side as a new
convert desirous to follow Christ Jesus and to also be baptized in the
Holy Spirit - the power required to fulfill this...

Below is an ancient New testament baptismal pool from the

Sousse Archaeological Museum

Tunisia

eternally-gratefull · Dec 30, 2017

Waggles said:

So God is required to wait until we do the work of being water baptised to save us? How is that any different than the jews saying one must be circumcised?

I am sorry, But if someone places their true faith in christ. God is not going to wait until they get dunked to justify them. That would make salvation of works, not Grace.

All paul said here is that there are different baptismal truths. He never said they were together.

oldethennew · Dec 30, 2017

it's an act of pure Love, to follow in our Saviour's foot-steps...

Bladerunner · Dec 30, 2017

Waggles said:

Of course it is absolutely necessary to be baptized by full immersion
in water.
Jesus did it as a demonstration to fulfill all righteousness.
Jesus commanded it more than once in the gospels.

To become a Christian Peter tells us in response to the question:
Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the
name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off,
even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves
from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there
were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:

Peter again writes of baptism as an expression of a good conscience towards
God unto obedience - that is not arguing with the commandments of God.

Romans chapter 6 is all about water baptism and the symbolism and purpose of such.
Death and burial to the old person, rising up to embrace resurrection in Christ Jesus;
hence also the need for Holy Spirit baptism.

Acts is full of examples showing that Christians were baptized in water and then
also sought for the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Verses pertaining to baptism are scattered all throughout the epistles because it
was expected that ALL converts were baptized by full immersion and baptized
in the Holy Spirit.

Obedience is what discipleship is all about.

And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins,
calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16

You Said.."Of course it is absolutely necessary to be baptized by full immersion
in water. "

It appears you are on the wrong side of the cross.

Bladerunner · Dec 30, 2017

DJ2 said:

These are your words, own them.

Again, all the clear passages about baptism and you come up with these two bizarre notions?

Water baptism in the Law of Moses? Blood baptism?

I have not even heard Trust Only Regenerationists make such odd remarks.

Baptism is part of the Great Commission and you think its being "phased out"?

I am sorry you do not see it.........

DJ2 · Dec 30, 2017

Bladerunner said:

Was Jesus on the wrong side of the cross when He said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved"?

Baptism: is it required to be baptized in water?

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