Baptism, the simple version.

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DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
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#21
So we act on what we believe. What we do is a reflection of what we believe.
That's why faith is all that is necessary for salvation. Because once we believe, what we believe we will do. If we don't, regardless of what we say, we don't really believe.
We've established that belief is a matter of the heart. It comes through hearing and that by the word of God. Who gives the hearing that comes through the word?
Nowhere in the scriptures is faith only required for salvation. Once agai n, look at ALL the scriptures. I'll leave it at that with you. Goodbye
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#22
Nowhere in the scriptures is faith only required for salvation. Once agai n, look at ALL the scriptures. I'll leave it at that with you. Goodbye
I appreciate that you have taken so much time to answer my questions. I hope before you go that you will again honor me and answer one more question.
If someone were to ask you why heaven should be your eternal home, what would you tell them?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,386
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#23
Nowhere in the scriptures is faith only required for salvation.
Actually, there are many, so your claim that there are none is surprising.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”
that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with your
heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.


Acts 16:30 Then he (jailer) brought them (Paul and Silas) out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be
saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”


^ Just a small sampling. Only one would be required to prove you wrong, yet there are many more, as well.

Consider also that Paul was glad he water baptized so very few, and Jesus water baptized a grand total of none.
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
970
171
43
#24
Actually, there are many, so your claim that there are none is surprising.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”
that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with your
heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.


Acts 16:30 Then he (jailer) brought them (Paul and Silas) out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be
saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”


^ Just a small sampling. Only one would be required to prove you wrong, yet there are many more, as well.

Consider also that Paul was glad he water baptized so very few, and Jesus water baptized a grand total of none.
Faith only doesn't save, and you can point to as many stand-alone scriptures you like, but doing so on a stand-alone, cherrypick basis means nothing and demonstrates your lack of scriptural understanding.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,386
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#25
Faith only doesn't save, and you can point to as many stand-alone scriptures you like, but doing so on
a stand-alone, cherrypick basis means nothing and demonstrates your lack of scriptural understanding.
Your claim was proven wrong. You carry on doing the same as you accuse others.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,605
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#26
So we act on what we believe. What we do is a reflection of what we believe.
That's why faith is all that is necessary for salvation. Because once we believe, what we believe we will do. If we don't, regardless of what we say, we don't really believe.
We've established that belief is a matter of the heart. It comes through hearing and that by the word of God. Who gives the hearing that comes through the word?
So, if you carry that back to the logical (illogical) extreme, then ears are all we need to be saved.....
Telling people that "faith" is all they need, can be, and likely is, a HUGE disservice to them when helping teach them Jesus.
What did Jesus tell us to do, right before he ascended into heaven?

"18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 [a]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you [b]always, even to the end of the age.”
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
12,570
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#28
So, if you carry that back to the logical (illogical) extreme, then ears are all we need to be saved.....
Telling people that "faith" is all they need, can be, and likely is, a HUGE disservice to them when helping teach them Jesus.
What did Jesus tell us to do, right before he ascended into heaven?

"18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 [a]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you [b]always, even to the end of the age.”
Belief has an object. I never meant to imply that faith in faith is any good...only that faith in Christ was sufficient.
I appreciate you bringing this to my and everyone's attention to clear up any misunderstanding.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
23,563
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#29
They don't accept the very simple language of the bible that very clearly indicates that baptism, immersion in water, is absolutely necessary to be saved.
No. It is NOT absolutely necessary to be saved. That is a gross misunderstanding of water baptism. On the other hand it is a commandment of Christ to each one who is saved. That is for sanctification.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,605
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#30
I never meant to imply that faith in faith is any good...only that faith in Christ was sufficient.
Yes, but that still leaves it up to the new believer to "find" all the results of faith and belief.... they need instruction, using scripture only, that will lead them on the path to discipleship... and that is our task, as mature believers. To show them the way...
If all you say is "faith is all you need" then many of them will stop there. "Well, I have faith, I'm all good".....
The new believer needs to know that faith should LEAD them to following Christ, to do what he told us to do... and everything that entails...
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#31
Yes, but that still leaves it up to the new believer to "find" all the results of faith and belief.... they need instruction, using scripture only, that will lead them on the path to discipleship... and that is our task, as mature believers. To show them the way...
If all you say is "faith is all you need" then many of them will stop there. "Well, I have faith, I'm all good".....
The new believer needs to know that faith should LEAD them to following Christ, to do what he told us to do... and everything that entails...
Sure. That's the role of the church given in the great commission.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,605
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#32
Sure. That's the role of the church given in the great commission.
So, as a part of the body (church), it is actually OUR job to instruct them as completely as possible.... :)
That's the point I'm trying to make.... it's OUR responsibility to be as complete as possible when sharing the gospel...
Not that we have to instruct a new believer completely in everything, but when it comes to accepting the free gift of salvation, we need to make sure they understand the road they are about to travel..... we shouldn't leave them standing in the same spot for years... following Jesus is a journey... if all they learn is the first step, and that's it, then there is no journey.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#33
So, as a part of the body (church), it is actually OUR job to instruct them as completely as possible.... :)
That's the point I'm trying to make.... it's OUR responsibility to be as complete as possible when sharing the gospel...
Not that we have to instruct a new believer completely in everything, but when it comes to accepting the free gift of salvation, we need to make sure they understand the road they are about to travel..... we shouldn't leave them standing in the same spot for years... following Jesus is a journey... if all they learn is the first step, and that's it, then there is no journey.
I'm a firm believer in instruction. The emphasis of the great commission is teaching. Unfortunately, the church has concerned itself more with trying to get people saved. But long before commissioning the disciples, He taught them how the church would grow and Who would do it...for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in heaven...and upon this rock I will build my church.
When the church tries to build the church, it acquires members. When Christ builds the church, converts are produced.
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
970
171
43
#34
Actually, there are many, so your claim that there are none is surprising.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”
that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,”
and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with your
heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.


Acts 16:30 Then he (jailer) brought them (Paul and Silas) out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be
saved?” 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”


^ Just a small sampling. Only one would be required to prove you wrong, yet there are many more, as well.

Consider also that Paul was glad he water baptized so very few, and Jesus water baptized a grand total of none.
Read a bit further in 1 Cor regarding Paul. Read 1 Cor 3:6. Paul was the orator, Apollos was the baptizer. Paul planted Apollos watered. .any people totally don't get what Paul meant by his statements in 1 Cor 1 especially verse 17, which most people get completely wrong.
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
970
171
43
#35
No. It is NOT absolutely necessary to be saved. That is a gross misunderstanding of water baptism. On the other hand it is a commandment of Christ to each one who is saved. That is for sanctification.
See my comments made in post #7 which apply here to you as well. I'm not wrong nor are the scriptures I adhere to and cite.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,386
25,262
113
#36
Read a bit further in 1 Cor regarding Paul. Read 1 Cor 3:6. Paul was the orator, Apollos was the baptizer. Paul planted Apollos watered. .any people totally don't get what Paul meant by his statements in 1 Cor 1 especially verse 17, which most people get completely wrong.
Baptism is watering? LOL
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
7,389
3,068
113
#38
Read a bit further in 1 Cor regarding Paul. Read 1 Cor 3:6. Paul was the orator, Apollos was the baptizer. Paul planted Apollos watered. .any people totally don't get what Paul meant by his statements in 1 Cor 1 especially verse 17, which most people get completely wrong.
LOL, this is the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever heard.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
897
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43
#39
Colossians 2:12
"And having been buried with Him in baptism, you were raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead."

Romans 6:4
"We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life."

Christians need to know much more than forgiveness of sins. God has also provided the remedy for the sinner. Before we are born again, we are like a "sin factory". We do not need to try to sin. Watch a two year old throw a tantrum and you will see the fallen nature as clear as day.

God's remedy is simple. It is death. Who now fears Adolf Hitler, Stalin or Ted Bundy? Those men are dead and cannot harm anyone. God includes us in the death of Christ so that we too are dead. We die to sin, self, Satan and the world system. We may not always experience this as we still have the ability to sin. But sin should no longer enslave us. If it does control us still, it is because we do not know that we are dead.

What do you do with a dead body? You bury it. And that is what God does in baptism. We should agree with God that our old man is worthy only of death and is beyond repair. Many struggle with this. Secretly, they hope that somehow something of worth can be found in the old. Like Abraham with Ishmael, they hope that God will accept the works of self. And they hope in vain.

The sooner the Christian accepts their hopeless and helpless condition, the better off he/she is. This must not lead to despair, however. Paul went through this stage as he records it in Romans 7. He saw his helpless condition. He also saw the answer. As in everything, the answer is Christ. We need to know that as an absolute, as surely as we know our own name.

Resurrection can only follow death. Christ is the Life of the born again believer. Let's not stop at forgiveness of sin. Let's go on to walk in the power of the resurrection.
Allow to add with the Baptism something Peter says unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38). “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. Not future sins! "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):