Baptism, the simple version.

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Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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#61
What good is Scripture?????????? How can it lead you to truth if no one can agree on it's meanings/interpretations??????
On Baptism and almost every subject on this board there is total disagreement! One poster says "my viewpoint is correct" and posts Scripture to prove it. Then another poster says "your viewpoint isn't correct" and posts Scripture to prove it's not correct. Something's wrong here!

If two people read and interpret Scripture and come up with opposite conclusions, then either one or both of them has to be plain wrong!!!!!!!!!! So, what's wrong with this picture???????
What is wrong is that some people read the scripture from a biased, intelectual point of view. You make the Bible say almost anything if you are clever enough. We have the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth. Scripture is essential because we are easily deceived by false teaching and by our own understanding. The Holy Spirit will lead us if we love truth. Even then He will not contradict the written word of God.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
12,958
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#63
I don't have a lot of time for those who distort God's word.
I'm just having some fun. I understand the frustration that comes when trying to help someone understand the difference between being baptized into Christ spiritually and positionally and how it is symbolically shown through water baptism.
Don't become weary in well doing brother.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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#64
"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

To reject baptism is death; so, why will you die? Every soul that is baptized honors God and every soul that rejects baptism dishonors God. "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30). People, if you are in a position to be baptized, why reject the counsel of God? Rejecting God's counsel will get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20).
Acts 10:44-48

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, "Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.

The new believers wanted to be baptised. That is a world apart from saying that baptism saves. I've never said that baptism does not matter. I do say that it is not essential to the initial born again experience. Those who require baptism for salvation add to God's requirements. Personally, that's not something I'm game to do.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,720
2,755
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#65
I'm just having some fun. I understand the frustration that comes when trying to help someone understand the difference between being baptized into Christ spiritually and positionally and how it is symbolically shown through water baptism.
Don't become weary in well doing brother.
:)
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#66
Baptism by water is not the same as baptism into Christ.
That is a made up dichonomy to suit a certain theology.
You cant support it via scripture.
I don't have a lot of time for those who distort God's word.
How do you live with yourself?
The new believers wanted to be baptised.
Thats a serious twist on the text.

You still cant ignor that Peter said.
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2:38‭-‬39 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/act.2.38-39.NKJV

Repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thats pretty cut and dry anyone who can read can understand that.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,608
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#67
I have no problem whatever harmonising the salvation scriptures. I settled these questions in my heart decades ago. If you think that you must be baptised in water to be forgiven, then you are wrong. I have neither the time nor the inclination to go over this subject.

However, this passage destroys the false argument of baptisimal regeneration:

Acts 10:44-48

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, “Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.

If you imagine that the Holy Spirit is given to unbelievers, then you are wrong. The hearers were saved first, then baptised in water. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's how it is.
As I said, you will not even consider the possibility that you might be off base somewhat. you made up your mind decades ago.

Your "proof" scripture has been explained over and over, and like you, I don't have the inclination to try to explain it to deaf ears again.
You are taking one or two scriptures (cherry-picking) to prove your pre-conceived notion, and you're satisfied.

.... and that is fine. I have no problem with you believing what you do, as each of us has to answer for our own beliefs.
I don't think that any of us have "all" the answers.... but in our search for the answers, we need to remember to approach it with an open mind, and rely on the guidance of the Spirit to lead us to truth.... and I believe that arriving at a decision requires the application of ALL scripture, not just the ones that agree with my belief...

in the end, we are still brothers, and Jesus is still our Lord and savior....
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
23,786
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#68
Water does not remove sin, neither does repentance.
Correct. Water does not wash away sins. But the Bible is very clear that repentance is for the remission of sins. Jesus said: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24: 47). Therefore Peter said: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).

So what is the the purpose of water baptism? It is primarily to tell every witness to that baptism that this believer has died to his old sinful life and been raised with Christ to "walk in newness of life" (see Romans 6). But baptism has many other spiritual results, not least of which is that it is the first step of obedience to the Lord and also the first step in the sanctification of the believer. The apostles took Christ's commandment to baptize believers very seriously. They made sure there was little or no delay between conversion and baptism. We see this throughout the book of Acts.

Today we have many false teachers and certain denominations teaching (a) baptismal regeneration or (b) baptism for the remission of sins. Those are false teaching which have led many people to mistakenly believe that water has some kind of supernatural power.

John 3:5 has been misinterpreted to suggest that the New Birth is connected to water baptism. As a matter of fact "water" is a metaphor for the Word of God, which does have cleansing power when sinners are converted through the Gospel. God called it "clean water", Christ said that His apostles were cleansed by the Word which He had spoken, and Paul said that God would sanctify and cleanse the Church by the "washing of water by the Word".
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
980
171
43
#69
Correct. Water does not wash away sins. But the Bible is very clear that repentance is for the remission of sins. Jesus said: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24: 47). Therefore Peter said: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).

So what is the the purpose of water baptism? It is primarily to tell every witness to that baptism that this believer has died to his old sinful life and been raised with Christ to "walk in newness of life" (see Romans 6). But baptism has many other spiritual results, not least of which is that it is the first step of obedience to the Lord and also the first step in the sanctification of the believer. The apostles took Christ's commandment to baptize believers very seriously. They made sure there was little or no delay between conversion and baptism. We see this throughout the book of Acts.

Today we have many false teachers and certain denominations teaching (a) baptismal regeneration or (b) baptism for the remission of sins. Those are false teaching which have led many people to mistakenly believe that water has some kind of supernatural power.

John 3:5 has been misinterpreted to suggest that the New Birth is connected to water baptism. As a matter of fact "water" is a metaphor for the Word of God, which does have cleansing power when sinners are converted through the Gospel. God called it "clean water", Christ said that His apostles were cleansed by the Word which He had spoken, and Paul said that God would sanctify and cleanse the Church by the "washing of water by the Word".
Baptism is a germane part of the salvation process. You're not saved until you're baptized. And its NOT a "to tell every witness-----" anything. Read the account of the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. He was preached the gospel of Christ by Philip which obviously included the need for baptism, as evidenced by his question to Philip about water and baptism; he believed, confessed his belief, and was immediately baptized. Who was there? Just him and Philip in the middle of nowhere! Baptism is for a definitive purpose but for sure it's not to proclaim anything to anyone;
that's man made-up nonsense.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
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#70
Baptism is a germane part of the salvation process. You're not saved until you're baptized. And its NOT a "to tell every witness-----" anything. Read the account of the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. He was preached the gospel of Christ by Philip which obviously included the need for baptism, as evidenced by his question to Philip about water and baptism; he believed, confessed his belief, and was immediately baptized. Who was there? Just him and Philip in the middle of nowhere! Baptism is for a definitive purpose but for sure it's not to proclaim anything to anyone;
that's man made-up nonsense.
Ephesians 4:5 says there is ONE baptism. The baptism that saves is the baptism in the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13). Water baptism does not save you. If it did, Paul would not have said he was NOT sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel (1 Cor 1:17). Also see Matt 3:11.
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
980
171
43
#71
Ephesians 4:5 says there is ONE baptism. The baptism that saves is the baptism in the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13). Water baptism does not save you. If it did, Paul would not have said he was NOT sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel (1 Cor 1:17). Also see Matt 3:11.
You got that wrong and you're not understanding Paul's statement in 1 Cor 1:17. Read a bit further to understand what he meant. Read 1 Cor 3:6. Paul says he planted and Apollos watered. Paul was the orator, Apollos baptized.
 
Dec 21, 2020
1,825
475
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#72
You got that wrong and you're not understanding Paul's statement in 1 Cor 1:17. Read a bit further to understand what he meant. Read 1 Cor 3:6. Paul says he planted and Apollos watered. Paul was the orator, Apollos baptized.
lol... If you think the phrase "Apollos watered" means that he water baptized people, I don't know what to say. The analogy is growing crops. Paul planted, Apollos watered, God gives the increase. IOW, both Paul and Apollos taught people the gospel, nurtured and pastored them to help them grow.

1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,720
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#73
Correct. Water does not wash away sins. But the Bible is very clear that repentance is for the remission of sins. Jesus said: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24: 47). Therefore Peter said: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord (Acts 3:19).

So what is the the purpose of water baptism? It is primarily to tell every witness to that baptism that this believer has died to his old sinful life and been raised with Christ to "walk in newness of life" (see Romans 6). But baptism has many other spiritual results, not least of which is that it is the first step of obedience to the Lord and also the first step in the sanctification of the believer. The apostles took Christ's commandment to baptize believers very seriously. They made sure there was little or no delay between conversion and baptism. We see this throughout the book of Acts.

Today we have many false teachers and certain denominations teaching (a) baptismal regeneration or (b) baptism for the remission of sins. Those are false teaching which have led many people to mistakenly believe that water has some kind of supernatural power.

John 3:5 has been misinterpreted to suggest that the New Birth is connected to water baptism. As a matter of fact "water" is a metaphor for the Word of God, which does have cleansing power when sinners are converted through the Gospel. God called it "clean water", Christ said that His apostles were cleansed by the Word which He had spoken, and Paul said that God would sanctify and cleanse the Church by the "washing of water by the Word".
I agree with what you say. I would only say that repentance is a prerequisite for salvation. An unrepentant person sees no need to be saved, as we saw on the day of Pentecost. Some were cut to the heart, others mocked.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,720
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#74
As I said, you will not even consider the possibility that you might be off base somewhat. you made up your mind decades ago.

Your "proof" scripture has been explained over and over, and like you, I don't have the inclination to try to explain it to deaf ears again.
You are taking one or two scriptures (cherry-picking) to prove your pre-conceived notion, and you're satisfied.

.... and that is fine. I have no problem with you believing what you do, as each of us has to answer for our own beliefs.
I don't think that any of us have "all" the answers.... but in our search for the answers, we need to remember to approach it with an open mind, and rely on the guidance of the Spirit to lead us to truth.... and I believe that arriving at a decision requires the application of ALL scripture, not just the ones that agree with my belief...

in the end, we are still brothers, and Jesus is still our Lord and savior....
Sure, and I am conscious that arguing is not profitable. You will find that many disagree with your position. Your accusation of cherry picking is unjustified. Acts 10:44 is as plain as day. The gospel was preached, the gentiles believed, were filled with the Spirit and then got baptised. The Holy Spirit will not dwell in an unclean vessel. The hearers were saved before they were baptised.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
4,720
2,755
113
#75
That is a made up dichonomy to suit a certain theology.
You cant support it via scripture.

How do you live with yourself?

Thats a serious twist on the text.

You still cant ignor that Peter said.
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2:38‭-‬39 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/act.2.38-39.NKJV

Repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thats pretty cut and dry anyone who can read can understand that.
Acts 10:
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now truly understand that God does not show favoritism, 35but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and do what is right. 36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.

39We are witnesses of all that He did, both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. And although they put Him to death by hanging Him on a tree, 40God raised Him up on the third day and caused Him to be seen— 41not by all the people, but by the witnesses God had chosen beforehand, by us who ate and drank with Him after He rose from the dead. 42And He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”

Nothing about baptism there....

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard his message. 45All the circumcised believers who had accompanied Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and exalting God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone withhold the water to baptize these people? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have!” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay for a few days.

Baptism after salvation, not in order to be saved. What is so hard to understand about that?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,608
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#77
Sure, and I am conscious that arguing is not profitable. You will find that many disagree with your position. Your accusation of cherry picking is unjustified. Acts 10:44 is as plain as day. The gospel was preached, the gentiles believed, were filled with the Spirit and then got baptised. The Holy Spirit will not dwell in an unclean vessel. The hearers were saved before they were baptised.
I don't think we are arguing... I thought we were discussing.
The scripture you reference was not a descriptive lesson/example on baptism... the baptism was "assumed" to be required by all the Jewish believers. What that scripture is about is teaching the Jewish Christians that Gentiles were accepted by God.... they received the Holy Spirit to PROVE to the Jewish believers that God approved of them.. and the natural FIRST thing to do was to baptize them..

The Jewish believers knew that baptism was a part of being saved..... they simply didn't believe that Gentiles could be saved. God showed them they were acceptable by giving them the Spirit..... then it was "what hinders them from being baptized?" The answer, of course... "nothing".

This was a one-time event to prove to the Jewish believers that Gentiles were accepted by God....

You are correct, though..... it IS plain as day. :)

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the [a]message. 45 All the [b]circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
54,567
25,408
113
#78
Ephesians 4:5 says there is ONE baptism. The baptism that saves is the baptism in the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:13). Water baptism does
not save you. If it did, Paul would not have said he was NOT sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel (1 Cor 1:17). Also see Matt 3:11.

Ephesians 4:5-6
:)
 

DJT_47

Active member
Oct 20, 2022
980
171
43
#80
lol... If you think the phrase "Apollos watered" means that he water baptized people, I don't know what to say. The analogy is growing crops. Paul planted, Apollos watered, God gives the increase. IOW, both Paul and Apollos taught people the gospel, nurtured and pastored them to help them grow.

1 Cor 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
Do you think Paul was planting flowers, Apollos was watering them, and God made them grow, giving them increase???

You are the one that's making dumb, laughable comments!

1 Cor 3:5-9

5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.