Baptism, the simple version.

[Magenta]

Water baptism is so important that Jesus personally baptized a grand total of zero people in water.

So important that the greatest apostle of them all was glad he water baptized so few.

Does this mean it is not important at all? No! But salvation does not depend on it.

Jesus makes a clear distinction between earthly H2O and the water He gives unto life.

The significance of this is apparently overlooked and/or misunderstand by many.

Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[Wansvic]

Just wrong. And you, like all who promote the false works gospel, ignore the rest of God's word.

If you don't mind, please clarify what you disagree with concerning what was presented about the account:

Peter states he was not about to withstand God AFTER seeing God pour out the gift of the Holy Ghost on the Gentiles in Acts 10. (Acts 11:17) What did Peter mean about withstanding God? What happened after the group was filled with the Holy Ghost? Peter commanded them to be water baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:47-48) Peter knew to refuse to give the Gentiles the opportunity to be obedient to the command to be baptized in Jesus' name would interfere with God's wishes to grant them repentance unto life. (Acts 11:18)

17 "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:17-18

Jesus paid the penalty for all of mankind’s sin with his blood sacrifice. And man’s obedience to God’s command to be water baptized in Jesus’ name is when each individual’s personal sins are actually remitted/washed away. (See Acts 22:14-16, 2:38)

It only takes a minimal study of the word to see that throughout scripture water baptism is connected to repentance and remission of sin. Whether one submits to it before or after they receive the Holy Ghost is not relevant. What is relevant is that all comply with God's mandate.

 

[Magenta]

Acts 10:43~ All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.

 

[hornetguy]

the many who have given their lives for the gospel before they could be baptised.

And just who would those "many" be?

The man who witnessed to me did not believe in believer's baptism. Does God condemn me for ignorance?

I cannot answer that, because I am not God. I just know that God loves us, and wants the best for His children...

According to your belief, I would have died in my sins if I was KIA

You keep telling me what my beliefs are.... I wish you would stop doing that.

How about people who repent and receive Christ on their deathbed, not an uncommon event? No hope for them either, according to you.

Again.... there are always hypothetical situations.... I've heard them all.... what about the astronaut that is in outer space, who accepts Jesus.... will he GO TO HELL if his spaceship blows up....
I will say this one more time..... that decision is way above my pay grade. I would never say, one way or the other.

All I can live my life by, to the best of my ability, is what the word says. I try to read and understand the scriptures with the Spirit's help... and I try my best to read it with an open mind, with no pre-conceived notions. I am always ready to be corrected in my understanding.... something that you apparently are not. I could be wrong.... you come across as "don't confuse me with those pesky scriptures telling and showing us to be baptized. I've already made up my mind"

Trying to demonize me looks really bad on you, brother.

 

[awelight]

"8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast."

I'm perfectly comfortable with the above Ephesians scripture which is in perfect harmony with all other related scripture on the subject of baptism and salvation. The problem is, if you look at that scripture alone, as a stand alone scripture, and ignor the rest, you have an issue of scripture conflicting with scripture which cannot be. This is what many people do and what you are suggesting now. It's necessary to look at ALL related scripture to discern the complete message.

What if you did the same thing and took Romans 10:9-10 on a stand alone basis? See below. It says belief and confession of Jesus is all that's necessary to be saved.

Once again, it's absolutely imperative to consider ALL related scripture on the subject of salvation or any other topic because tge scriptures are piece meal, written to various others for specific reasons and each doesn't encapsulate the entirety of the salvation message.

When you put all relative scripture together on this subject, you end up with
1. Belief and faith
2. Confession of belief
3. Repentance
4. Baptism

That's the complete list of requirements to saved, after which, by being obedient, God's grace saves you.

Romans 10:9-10

"9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

I agree with your 4 points - for the most part - however, Baptism is not a requirement for ones salvation. For example, there is no Scripture evidence that the "thief on the cross" was ever Baptized. Yet, our Lord said he would be in Paradise, with Him that day.

Baptism is a responsibility, of the believer, out of an act of solidarity with Jesus' death and into the hope of a new creature and the resurrection. It is performed as a public proclamation - out of the believers good conscience - and is his/hers first act of obedience. To be saved by God's Grace and not be Baptized (Once a believer becomes aware of this requirement and understands it), would be a direct act of disobedience. This is not likely to occur in a true believer.

Nevertheless, it in no way would stop our God from saving that person. Baptism saves NO ONE. It is an ordinance to be followed but it presumes knowledge of it and understanding of it's purpose.

To say that one must be Baptized in order to be saved - is an attempt to veil a "WORK" inside the system of faith and transfers the concept of Salvation to "works" rather than "Faith". This is expressly forbidden as to the correct knowledge of Soteriology. (Rom.9:32; Gal. 2:16)

Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And man’s obedience to God’s command to be water baptized in Jesus’ name is when each individual’s personal sins are actually remitted/washed away. (See Acts 22:14-16, 2:38)

Misinterpreting and misapplying Scripture does not help anyone. Acts 2:38 is clarified in Acts 3:19.

Your false belief about baptism is detrimental to the true Gospel. And for over 2,000 years Christians have been baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, as Christ specifically stated.

 

[FlyingDove]

You conveniently left out what Paul did IMMEDIATELY upon receiving his sight....
And this was before he even ate or drank..... after doing without for 3 days.

and I will confess that I didn't read all of your post. I lose track after the first 5 or 6 pages of any document.....

Paul was a Jew

At what point are you converted according to scripture? What is converted? When was the Ethiopian eunuch "converted" in Acts 8? Being obedient doesn't mean you are earning anything.

Obedience to God is crucial and should always be our top priority. Having said that, 1st things 1st. FAITH is the key to pleasing God (Heb 11:6).

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
(MY NOTE: God has GRANTED via His Holy Spirit these BELIEVING gentiles the ability to change direction , from unbelief to belief)

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches ""of his goodness"" and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that ""the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance""?
(MY NOTE: It's thru the GOODNESS of God not thru OUR OWN great works of obedience or self-control. It's salvations seal of Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit (accessed by FAITH - Rom 5:1-2) that leads us to change our thinking, outlook & direction).

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(MY NOTE: NT Believers are lead to obedience thru FAITH, for His names sake)

Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
(MY NOTE: Obedience comes from FAITH & is enable by the Holy Spirit)

When Faith s root, obedience is the Fruit!

Anyone that believes they can conquer their own sin nature (via self-works - of anyking), without the Holy Spirit's help is mistaken.

 

[hornetguy]

Paul was a Jew

well, yeah.... I thought we all knew that.

 

[FlyingDove]

You conveniently left out what Paul did IMMEDIATELY upon receiving his sight....
And this was before he even ate or drank..... after doing without for 3 days.

and I will confess that I didn't read all of your post. I lose track after the first 5 or 6 pages of any document.....

I'll try to be brief understanding your childlike attention span.

Acts 9:36-43 Peter is called to Joppa where Tabitha has died. Peter prays for her & she comes back to life.

Acts 10:1-8 Cornelius has a vision of an angel who tells him to send for Peter in Joppa.

Acts 9:1-19 Saul is on the way to Damascus (Peter is already in Joppa) & is converted. Although he preaches Christ in Damascus he doesn't receive his ministry (by direct revelation (Gal 1:12) from the risen Christ) until he goes to Arabia (Gal 1). One can glean where in Arabia (from his Gal 4:24-25 allegory) He receives his gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24) the same place Moses received the law/My Sinai.

If this doesn't answer your question, please advise & I'll try to simplify it for you.

 

[FlyingDove]

well, yeah.... I thought we all knew that.

Perhaps you could find someone capable of reading the post to you. The timeline was given in the post.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Ephesians 4:5-6

amen one baptism has many applications to our understanding and faith

Baptism means this to believers who hear it

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ( as if we died with Christ in baptism for our sins )


For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:”( we should believe this baptism becomes a witness to our conscience if we do )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-5‬ ‭

But also baptism is about the rebirth into Abraham’s family chosen by God as his hiers and his chosen elect children

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It also relates to the pattern of circumcision promised by God in the ot law

“And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:10-14‬ ‭

since we understand there’s one baptism then we can start realizing it actually has a lot of meaning in the doctrine and we can begin to understand why we do it

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( because Jesus died for your sins and rose up for your justification you get baptized into his death for your sins and your sins are now remitted you died and rose with him by faith through baptism being buried beneath and raised back up from in Jesus name because you know he died for your sins and rose for your new life )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we realized there’s one baptism like the Bible says and see they were baptizing like this before

“And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And after the cross

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We could learn a lot about baptism if we understood there’s just the one baptism in Christian doctrine we’re commanded to partake of because we believe Jesus died and rose on our behalf

it makes us the elect seed of Abraham as well as removes our sins and the penalty of death to be baptized in Christs death it means our debt is paid and we’re born now as the children of Abraham clothed with Christ Jesus his promised seed and makes believers in Christ Jesus the hiers of God who inherit his spirit and eternal life in his kingdom

 

[hornetguy]

Perhaps you could find someone capable of reading the post to you. The timeline was given in the post.

i'm capable... I just don't want to read a book.
How about the condensed version?

 

[hornetguy]

I'll try to be brief understanding your childlike attention span.

Acts 9:36-43 Peter is called to Joppa where Tabitha has died. Peter prays for her & she comes back to life.

Acts 10:1-8 Cornelius has a vision of an angel who tells him to send for Peter in Joppa.

Acts 9:1-19 Saul is on the way to Damascus (Peter is already in Joppa) & is converted. Although he preaches Christ in Damascus he doesn't receive his ministry (by direct revelation (Gal 1:12) from the risen Christ) until he goes to Arabia (Gal 1). One can glean where in Arabia (from his Gal 4:24-25 allegory) He receives his gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24) the same place Moses received the law/My Sinai.

If this doesn't answer your question, please advise & I'll try to simplify it for you.

and you conveniently skipped over what Paul did immediately upon receiving his sight.....
Perhaps you should become more childlike, instead of a condescendingly arrogant adult. Or, perhaps you enjoy being that way.... some folks need that feeling of superiority.

Now, give me another wall of meaningless text....

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Nowhere in the scriptures is faith only required for salvation. Once agai n, look at ALL the scriptures. I'll leave it at that with you. Goodbye

“Once agai n, look at ALL the scriptures.”

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Nowhere in the scriptures is faith only required for salvation.”

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

It depends on how you define faith if faith is this it’s going to be salvstion

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

justification

“seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How we are kept by god is through faith unto salvation

“who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s how we receive the inheritance of the Holy Ghost

“that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:14‬ ‭

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what blessed Abraham and Abraham’s seed

“Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s what makes us Gods children

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:9, 26-29‬ ‭

I’d say no one can be saved without faith and faith is summarized by Hearing and then believing and then beginning to obey Gods word in the gospel

 

[Wansvic]

Misinterpreting and misapplying Scripture does not help anyone. Acts 2:38 is clarified in Acts 3:19.

Your false belief about baptism is detrimental to the true Gospel. And for over 2,000 years Christians have been baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, as Christ specifically stated.

What I share concerning the use of Jesus' name in water baptism comes directly from the word. To say it is a false belief is to deny the word of God. Scripture reveals the apostles obeyed Jesus' command; they baptized in His name. Water baptism was consistently administered in the name of the Lord Jesus as witnessed from all detailed baptism records. Also, Paul referenced this truth in his discussion with the Corinthian church:

"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

Acts 2:38-39
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,..."

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half Jewish-half Gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)..."

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins...
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

Acts 11:13-14
And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples were instructed being baptized in Jesus name was necessary)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[FlyingDove]

and you conveniently skipped over what Paul did immediately upon receiving his sight.....
Perhaps you should become more childlike, instead of a condescendingly arrogant adult. Or, perhaps you enjoy being that way.... some folks need that feeling of superiority.

Now, give me another wall of meaningless text....

 

[FlyingDove]

and you conveniently skipped over what Paul did immediately upon receiving his sight.....
Perhaps you should become more childlike, instead of a condescendingly arrogant adult. Or, perhaps you enjoy being that way.... some folks need that feeling of superiority.

Now, give me another wall of meaningless text....

 

[FlyingDove]

and you conveniently skipped over what Paul did immediately upon receiving his sight.....
Perhaps you should become more childlike, instead of a condescendingly arrogant adult. Or, perhaps you enjoy being that way.... some folks need that feeling of superiority.

Now, give me another wall of meaningless text....

Your petulant behavior is duly noted. When the poll for forum clown is posted you can count on my vote.

Pro 18:2 A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself. Grow-up FOOL!

 

[FlyingDove]

and you conveniently skipped over what Paul did immediately upon receiving his sight.....
Perhaps you should become more childlike, instead of a condescendingly arrogant adult. Or, perhaps you enjoy being that way.... some folks need that feeling of superiority.

Now, give me another wall of meaningless text....

Pro 18:7 A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

 

[DJT_47]

What I share concerning the use of Jesus' name in water baptism comes directly from the word. To say it is a false belief is to deny the word of God. Scripture reveals the apostles obeyed Jesus' command; they baptized in His name. Water baptism was consistently administered in the name of the Lord Jesus as witnessed from all detailed baptism records. Also, Paul referenced this truth in his discussion with the Corinthian church:

"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor 1:13
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

Acts 2:38-39
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,..."

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half Jewish-half Gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women...
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)..."

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins...
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."

Acts 11:13-14
And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples were instructed being baptized in Jesus name was necessary)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Just a comment for thought and consideration. I've thought about this a lot over time. In the gospels it says be baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, but then after starting in the book of Acts it's in the name of Jesus Christ, i.e., Acts 2:38 and elsewhere.

Thinking about this, I've asked myself, what are the names to be used? What's the name of the Father to be used, YAHWEH, Jehova, I AM, or ???, and we know the Son is Jesus, but what's the name of the Holy Ghost that should be used? And this started to make no sense, thinking about this in terms of actual names to be cited.

And then it dawned on me! What this is REALLY saying when you say "in the name of", is by the authority of!

When someone says I do this or that in the name of the king or queen, or I take this or that in the name of the king, etc, it really means it's being done by the authority of or at the behest of, etc, so the actual name of the authority is not important to state or cite verbally, but rather it's simply stating that it's being done by their will, authority, or with their approval, etc. This makes the most sense to me.

So, should we baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, or in the name of Jesus Christ? It probably makes no difference is what I've concluded. Being a member of the coC, baptism is of utmost importance, and over the years I've witnessed baptisms done both ways. Just some food for thought.