BAPTISM

[Nehemiah6]

Water baptism is not a requirement so don't let it disturb you.

This is completely FALSE and misleading. It is absolutely a requirement for each and every believer. See Matthew 28:18-20. And bringing up that thief on the cross is quite irrelevant, Study the Acts of the Apostles instead.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If it were a requirement, Jesus would have told His mother to organize so that the thief is baptized before he dies- so, yeaaah, it is not a requirement. The thief only believed that Jesus saves.

Noose, you are getting even more ridiculous in your stance. That man was on the verge of dying shortly after Christ and Mary would have had absolutely no authority to do anything about a criminal under Roman authority. So stop promoting heretical ideas and study your Bible.

 

[DJ2]

Are you sending me to hell your eminence?

By no means, you seem to be doing it yourself quite well. I suggest you repent before it is too late. The blood of the innocent is nothing to be flippant about.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Baptism is NOT necessary to be saved. Grace through our faith and belief, is what saves us. Getting dunked in water does not..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Baptism is not for children (anyone still growing taller). Jesus’ example was that He didn’t get baptized till He was 30. I agree with the US- that the age of accountability is 21 (physically and mentally). There are no examples in the Bible of babies, kids, or teens getting baptized, but only men and women. It is a lifetime commitment, like marriage.

I was baptized at 10, but after studying and learning what I said above, I got baptized as an adult to make sure it counted. Other kids wanted to be baptized just so they could take the Lord’s Supper. I wanted that too at that age, but I also wanted to be on God’s team forever by not sinning, but the only sins I knew about was not listening to your parents and not being kind to others. At that age I didn’t understand sin like I do today, or the effects of it.

I think they shaould at least be 21- fully capable of living on their own and making their own decisions for their own life.

welp, here you go. If you die before you turn 21, your all outa luck.

Stuff like this really makes me sad

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you sending me to hell your eminence?

Ah yes, Thanks for reminding me why I have him on ignore.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm getting baptised very soon - on the 15th April, which is the day before my 15th birthday. For me, this is the right time. Any earlier and it would have had a lot less meaning; it is more than just a symbol. It just goes to show that it's less about the age and more about the point in your journey

May God bless you sister.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Kids know when they lie that it is wrong and they should not do it, same with stealing or cheating on a test or beating up on those smaller/weaker than they are, or any other number of things people do that they ought not. That they may not understand all the ramifications of their actions is immaterial, since that is rarely known even by adults. The problem with sin is that people justify it, rationalize it, and always have some reason why they do it, and children are no different, though they may not be as aware of the deeper reasons why, or how it feeds the flesh which is hostile to God and His ways, but again, the same could be said for adults in denial. Some children are much more aware than others of the fallen nature of the human condition, and see it quite clearly in themselves. The seriousness of sin is such that a person who sins habitually becomes seared in their conscience, lacking moral sensitivity to the golden rule.

I think the problem is we define sin as breaking some rule And not what it really is (Yes it is breaking a rule, but that is not what CAUSED the sin) it is the mental attitude. I can do a good act. and it be a sin, because of the root of the work I did.

A child can learn to do unto others, to love others, to place their needs above yours. I know my mother and grandparents taught me that from a young age. I know many other children who have known the difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if baptism (water) is required for salvation, SO many people who trusted God will be in hell. Because all the OT saints, and many of the NY ones were never baptized for whatever reason.

Baptism is required, But it is the one done by the hands of God (spirit) not the hands of men (water) and is not a work we do. but a work done on us.

 

[Noose]

Noose, you are getting even more ridiculous in your stance. That man was on the verge of dying shortly after Christ and Mary would have had absolutely no authority to do anything about a criminal under Roman authority. So stop promoting heretical ideas and study your Bible.

You completely miss the point; it is the faith in Jesus that granted the man paradise that night, not an immersion in water and it completely disqualifies the idea that water baptism is necessary for salvation. So many people were not water baptized including the disciples.
But don't worry, i'll give thee understanding in a minute, what water baptism meant.

The water baptism was nothing but symbolic- a sign that the messiah/ God is about to come. The prophesies about the messiah are divided into:
1. His identity- how we are supposed to know He is the one
2. His identity- Who He actually is
3. His role

Water baptism played a role in identification of the messiah (how we are supposed know Him).

In Malachi 3:1, God Almighty promises to come but before making an appearance, a messenger will appear to make a way for Him. Somewhere else in Malachi, the messenger is identified as Elijah (John the baptist) and his role was to reconcile the fathers and their sons, and mothers and their daughters- meaning that, his role was to ready the hearts of men to something more important than water baptism.
So water baptism was just symbolic of what was to come and the message that John preached as he baptized was "..the kingdom of God is at hand/near..."
This happened so that people would recognize their God/Messiah when He appeared.

If you know the role of John the baptist, then you know the role of water baptism.

Mal 3:1“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LordAlmighty.

Isa 40:3A voice of one calling:“In the wilderness preparethe way for the Lord[SUP]a[/SUP] ;make straight in the deserta highway for our God.

Mark 1:1The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah,[SUP]a[/SUP] the Son of God,[SUP]b[/SUP]2as it is written in Isaiah the prophet:“I will send my messenger ahead of you,
who will prepare your way”[SUP]c[/SUP] —
3“a voice of one calling in the wilderness,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.’ ”[SUP]d[/SUP]

4And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River. 6John wore clothing made of camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist, and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with[SUP]e[/SUP] water, but he will baptize you with[SUP]f[/SUP] the Holy Spirit.”
9At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.

 

[DJ2]

if baptism (water) is required for salvation, SO many people who trusted God will be in hell. Because all the OT saints, and many of the NY ones were never baptized for whatever reason.

Baptism is required, But it is the one done by the hands of God (spirit) not the hands of men (water) and is not a work we do. but a work done on us.

SO many people who trusted God​

Trusting in God is not what the Bible commands to have your sins forgiven. This is the flaw in your thinking.

Peter answered them, "All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

Also none of the OT saints nor the thief on the cross were required to be baptized or even believe that Jesus was raised from the dead but we are.

many of the NY ones were never baptized for whatever reason​

First off it is not the New York saints but the New Orleans saints and their baptism is not part of the debate.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Baptism is NOT necessary to be saved...

Why did you not complete that with"...but it is necessary for each and every believer who is truly saved"?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Because it isn't necessary AT ALL for anyone who is saved by grace through faith. A person is not saved unless they have faith in and believe in Jesus..

Why did you not complete that with"...but it is necessary for each and every believer who is truly saved"?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Because it isn't necessary AT ALL for anyone who is saved by grace through faith. A person is not saved unless they have faith in and believe in Jesus..

So what you are saying is that water baptism is NOT necessary for Christians (those saved by grace), even though Christ and His apostles said that it was absolutely necessary. How does a professing Christian simply reject the commandments of Christ? And in case you think water baptism is not a commandment, think again after reading this Scripture:

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:46-48)

Christians do not have the right or authority to concoct their own doctrines in opposition to Scripture.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

At what age do you think people should get baptized?

Everybody ought to be introduced (baptized) into the teachings of Christ as early as possible:

• "The women of my people have ye cast out from their pleasant houses; from their children have ye taken away my glory for ever." (Micah 2.9).

After all:

• "Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger." (Psalms 8.2).
  
• "But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." (Mark 10.14,15).

 

[Noose]

So what you are saying is that water baptism is NOT necessary for Christians (those saved by grace), even though Christ and His apostles said that it was absolutely necessary. How does a professing Christian simply reject the commandments of Christ? And in case you think water baptism is not a commandment, think again after reading this Scripture:

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:46-48)

Christians do not have the right or authority to concoct their own doctrines in opposition to Scripture.

Brah, you are full of fake news.

Peter said those words at Corneilius place after he had a vision of clean and unclean animals; the whole point was that there's no Jew or gentile, we are all baptized with the same baptism (The Holy spirit baptism).
Here is the context:

Acts 10:44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues[SUP]b[/SUP] and praising God.Then Peter said, 47“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

We can see that Peter was making comparison about what Jews were doing as tradition/law and what God was also doing for the gentiles. We also see the scripture just before the water baptism talking of the circumcised Jews that were with Peter being astonished of what the Lord has done- so the learning was for the Jew folks, not the gentiles. Peter decided to baptize them to teach the Jew folk that everyone is same in the new covenant but it was unnecessary.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Brah, you are full of fake news...

When a person calls the Word of God "fake news" it is evident that the Holy Spirit is not directing that person. But definitely another spirit.

When Peter commanded the first group of Gentile converts to be baptized after receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, that was setting A PATTERN FOR ALL GENTILES IN ALL AGES. But before he commanded the Gentiles, he had already commanded the Jews in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost to do exactly the same thing.

Just be fully aware that by your opposition to, and rejection of, water baptism for believers in all ages, you are setting yourself in opposition to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. This is no light matter.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world [age]. Amen. (Mt 28:18-20)

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16)

So the ones who are rejecting believer's baptism are in essence saying "We are not really saved".

 

[fredoheaven]

Baptism is NOT necessary to be saved. Grace through our faith and belief, is what saves us. Getting dunked in water does not..

This is ok for me. It is not required to obtain salvation but this needs to be obeyed by every believer as identification.

 

[fredoheaven]

So what you are saying is that water baptism is NOT necessary for Christians (those saved by grace), even though Christ and His apostles said that it was absolutely necessary. How does a professing Christian simply reject the commandments of Christ? And in case you think water baptism is not a commandment, think again after reading this Scripture:

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:46-48)

Christians do not have the right or authority to concoct their own doctrines in opposition to Scripture.

Ok you have the balance view

 

[Noose]

When a person calls the Word of God "fake news" it is evident that the Holy Spirit is not directing that person. But definitely another spirit.

When Peter commanded the first group of Gentile converts to be baptized after receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, that was setting A PATTERN FOR ALL GENTILES IN ALL AGES. But before he commanded the Gentiles, he had already commanded the Jews in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost to do exactly the same thing.

Just be fully aware that by your opposition to, and rejection of, water baptism for believers in all ages, you are setting yourself in opposition to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. This is no light matter.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world [age]. Amen. (Mt 28:18-20)

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16)

So the ones who are rejecting believer's baptism are in essence saying "We are not really saved".

The word of God is God, trying to compare yourself with God is blasphemy. The words that come out of your mouth are fake news. You read the scriptures but they are like a parable to you, fulfilling what Isaiah said ".. ever seeing but never perceiving, ever hearing but never understanding.."

This is what John had to say:

Mark 1: 7And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8I baptize you with[SUP]e[/SUP] water, but he will baptize you with[SUP]f[/SUP] the Holy Spirit.”

Jesus never baptized anyone with water because water was only symbolic of the spirit. Water is always a symbol of the Holy spirit.

John 4:10Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”11“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”13Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Go back to Acts 10 and read it in full. Peter is first given the vision which shows that under the new covenant, gentiles and Jews are the same.

Acts 10:28He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

It is clear from the above verse that Peter and the Jews around him had a problem with treating gentiles as being different from them (Jews). It is also safe to conclude that it is possible that the Jews around Peter forbade him from administering to the gentiles the practices which they thought was reserved for Jews only. That the reason Peter asked them " 47“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”