Baptism

[Pilgrimshope]

The darkness was real. It symbolized the spiritual darkness that had spread over the land since the days of Joseph. It also pictured the looming judgment that would soon come.

brother you didn’t answer what I was asking your probably right about the symbolism of the darkness what I am asking is do you see how first god told Moses to do something and then he told Moses what would result ?

and then Moses heard him and acted ? And then the result came ?

That’s what faith is it doesn’t matter what Godnis saying it is always going to happen when we hear and believe we can know by faith is the point baptism is the same

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? ( quoting from Isaiah 53 about Jesus dying for sins and being raised up )

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

moses heard what god said and what he said would happen if he acted on his word , and acted by faith . This is how baptism works we have to shut out everything but what the lord has made clear about each subject adam listened to Gods word , then he let the other words lead him away from what God said . Moses acted upon what God said

One is a lack of faith hearing the wrong word after hearing gods word the other is just hearing gods word and acting upon what he said like Noah

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, ( god told him bout the flood to come ) moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; ( he did what god told him would save he and his family ) by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Had Noah let someone convince him what god told him wasn’t true he wouldn’t have been saved by faith because he wouldn’t have believed and built the ark like god told him to actually do and be saved

thats what baptism is brother Gods saying this and it applies to every creature believer and non believer

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be clear I’m not saying “ baptism is a requirement a rule or ritual we must partake of begrudgingly or we can’t be saved “

Im saying God established baptism for remission of sins , then Jesus died and rose and ascended to the throne and sent his spirit ive quoted this in the thread a couple times in acts chapter 2 before Peter commands baptism for repentance and remission in Jesus name

what im saying is baptism is of faith it’s created by the lords words in the gospel and the promise of salvation he offers there to believers who act upon faith and get baptized in his name

airs an action of faith to grasp it we have to let the lords words in scripture determine what it is , why we do it , what it means internally to us ect it’s made of faith hearing and believing what the word says about it will lead us to get baptized gladly as if it’s a fort and joy to partake of in Jesus name for the remission of our sins knowing thy ats why he shed his blood so we can simply step forth and accept by faith remission of our sins in his name because of his blood and by his words which created baptism for remission of sins in the gospel

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

“The reason romans and 1 cor do not make sense is because people add water where no water is involved.”

At what point is water not involved in baptism ?

when it says we were baptized INTO CHRIST. it means we were baptized INTO CHRIST.

Baptism is an action word. one is placed into something or immersed.

a more perfect translation would be we were placed into Christ.

I do not know w3hy the interpreters did not interpret baptizo but instead transliterated it, which is the true cause of confusion. but they did.

we should not make a mistake by not digging draper. and just make assumptions..

“Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a maybe gentiles ?

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44-48‬ ‭

There’s absolutely no scriptire in the Bible that ever says baptism isn’t necassary ornos t done in water I mean if we’re just saying things is one thing but in a Bible discussion forum shouldnt we talk about what the Bible says ?

it seems like there’s no question that water is involved in baptism I mean from John to Phillip to Peter maybe Peter and Phillip didn’t understand the new age hypergrace where no one needs to do what Jesus said will save them

lol.. Non of these prove water is used in romans 6, 1 cor 12, gal 5, or col 2.

new age hypergrace?

I guess jesus was new age, when he told us how to be born again, he never once mentioned the word baptize..

instead of being a new age pharisee.. lets be an old age christ follower

 

[Nehemiah6]

And you are saying that Peter directly contradicts himself from Acts 2 to Acts 3..... that's odd.

Since there are no contradictions in the Bible, we need to see that Acts 2:38 was frequently misunderstood. Peter was simply summing up what he could have said in greater detail. He already preached on faith in Christ. Then he said repent and be converted. Then he could have said that after you have repented and believed, and received the gift of the Holy Spirit, be baptized by immersion. But he simply summed it up.

 

[Nehemiah6]

also. when Jesus told nicodemus HOW to be born again, Can you show me the word baptize?

Here is another misunderstanding. The "water" is in fact the Gospel -- the Word of God.

 

[Cameron143]

when it says we were baptized INTO CHRIST. it means we were baptized INTO CHRIST.

Baptism is an action word. one is placed into something or immersed.

a more perfect translation would be we were placed into Christ.

I do not know w3hy the interpreters did not interpret baptizo but instead transliterated it, which is the true cause of confusion. but they did.

we should not make a mistake by not digging draper. and just make assumptions..



lol.. Non of these prove water is used in romans 6, 1 cor 12, gal 5, or col 2.

new age hypergrace?

I guess jesus was new age, when he told us how to be born again, he never once mentioned the word baptize..

instead of being a new age pharisee.. lets be an old age christ follower

Sorry brother.
In the example you give, I do believe God expects His people to exercise faith once they are in relationship with Him. But we are talking about a time in a person's life before an intimate relationship exists. They do not yet possess faith to exercise. Faith must first be produced through the hearing of the word. As I understand it from Ephesians 2:8-10, faith is sufficient for salvation, and works of faith will follow as we were created in Christ for them.

 

[Mem]

The first mention of the word "Hebrew" which means, "of or pertaining to crossing over or passing through" is when Abraham is called, "Abraham the Hebrew." He passed crossed over from death to life, from unbelief to belief... and we are his seed and heirs to the promise if... you belong to Christ (Gal 3:29).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There was also a man sent by God who was Jesus of Nazareth, and who superseded John. His baptism would be two-fold -- He would baptize with the Holy Ghost and then require water baptism.

what your saying is t really making any sense here you seem to be avoiding the point John the Baptist who baptized for remission of sins and preached faith in jesus , and Peter who preached faith in jesus and then commanded baptism for remission of sins to both Jews and gentiles are baptizing the same baptism that was established by God through John the Baptist who was filled with the holy spirit from his conception and was filled with the holt spirit like Peter eas when they were both baptizing for remission of sins I quoted that a few times in the thread also

john was a Christian he just happened to be one before jesus began preaching the gospel and was beheaded shortly after he began preaching the gospel he didn’t have revelation of the name of Jesus until the end part of his ministry when he stepped aside and sent his disciples to jesus john understood his role perfectly he preached a lot about jesus and himself in the four gospels he was this guy who would immediately precede the messiah

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: ( john )

and the Lord, ( Jesus ) whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what John talking about he knew another would come much greater than he was it’s why he’s saying what he’s saying about himself and why he identifies Jesus after baptism sayong “ look the lamb of God “ that’s johns way of preaching Jesus death and resurrection beforehand the lamb of sacrifice and atonement is his reference johns preaching is really deep and helpful stuff that many just ignore he preached a lot really in the gospels

there’s just one baptism there isnt two ot only seems that way because John didn’t have the full revelation of how those things would be fulfilled we do reading scripture though we can see what John said here

“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can see that here

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just a few days later

“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Peter then explains such a revelation to those who’ve read and considered it

…But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, And signs in the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

…….This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. ( he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire )


(Nothing changed about baptism for remission of sins however now the spirit is shed forth and can be received the difference is just before this was fulfilled and after baptism for remission of sins never changed Jesus name is now known )

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( water what we do )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( spirit from Jesus in heaven )

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

(what we’re supposed to do by faith when we here about baptism for remission of sins in his name )

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:1-4, 16-19, 32-33, 37-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

all im really saying brother is there isnjist one baptism it’s the same one established in the gospel receving the Holy Ghost is something only Jesus can give us it’s a promise in the gospel that he would send his spirit after he ascended it’s not a replacement or doesn’t change baptism John promised Jesus would give the spirit also just beforehand

John said this speaking of what Jesus would do later

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”

He doesn’t say when or how or even the name of who

peter has more revelation because it’s after this happened after his name is known and he’s died and rose and ascended and pored out his spirit like John was foretelling

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s just a perception issue John didn’t know as much as Peter did because Peter was after and John before but baptism never changes they kept baptizing in water because that’s what baptism is

It never became irrelevant or different is all I’m saying we just know more than they did because the apostles had revelation and wrote the epistles

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus said believe and get baptized Paul and the apostles explain what it means by revelation like Roman’s 6 Galatians 3 Colossians 2 ect Peter also writes about it …..the gospels also talk about it the book of acts also teaches about it but until we can understand baptism is just baptism then we can never really discuss what it means because we won’t hear what the Bible says it is and go from there

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

water is simply part of the baptism God established for men to do in his name for remission of sins we dont do a work we just choose to be baptized in his name and show up that day it’s a decision me make because we believe the gospel which calls us to baptism in his name

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Here is another misunderstanding. The "water" is in fact the Gospel -- the Word of God.

I disagree

Jesus spoke of being born of flesh and spirit to explain what it means to be born again

born out of water is born of the flesh

born out of the spirit is to be born in the spirit..

2 births, hence born again ( a second time)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Sorry brother.
In the example you give, I do believe God expects His people to exercise faith once they are in relationship with Him. But we are talking about a time in a person's life before an intimate relationship exists. They do not yet possess faith to exercise. Faith must first be produced through the hearing of the word. As I understand it from Ephesians 2:8-10, faith is sufficient for salvation, and works of faith will follow as we were created in Christ for them.

Are you talking to me? I do nto understand your post and how it relates to the post you quoted.

 

[Cameron143]

Are you talking to me? I do nto understand your post and how it relates to the post you quoted.

Sorry to you too. For some reason I hit the wrong post.

 

[Cameron143]

brother you didn’t answer what I was asking your probably right about the symbolism of the darkness what I am asking is do you see how first god told Moses to do something and then he told Moses what would result ?

and then Moses heard him and acted ? And then the result came ?

That’s what faith is it doesn’t matter what Godnis saying it is always going to happen when we hear and believe we can know by faith is the point baptism is the same

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? ( quoting from Isaiah 53 about Jesus dying for sins and being raised up )

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

moses heard what god said and what he said would happen if he acted on his word , and acted by faith . This is how baptism works we have to shut out everything but what the lord has made clear about each subject adam listened to Gods word , then he let the other words lead him away from what God said . Moses acted upon what God said

One is a lack of faith hearing the wrong word after hearing gods word the other is just hearing gods word and acting upon what he said like Noah

“By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, ( god told him bout the flood to come ) moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; ( he did what god told him would save he and his family ) by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Had Noah let someone convince him what god told him wasn’t true he wouldn’t have been saved by faith because he wouldn’t have believed and built the ark like god told him to actually do and be saved

thats what baptism is brother Gods saying this and it applies to every creature believer and non believer

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to be clear I’m not saying “ baptism is a requirement a rule or ritual we must partake of begrudgingly or we can’t be saved “

Im saying God established baptism for remission of sins , then Jesus died and rose and ascended to the throne and sent his spirit ive quoted this in the thread a couple times in acts chapter 2 before Peter commands baptism for repentance and remission in Jesus name

what im saying is baptism is of faith it’s created by the lords words in the gospel and the promise of salvation he offers there to believers who act upon faith and get baptized in his name

airs an action of faith to grasp it we have to let the lords words in scripture determine what it is , why we do it , what it means internally to us ect it’s made of faith hearing and believing what the word says about it will lead us to get baptized gladly as if it’s a fort and joy to partake of in Jesus name for the remission of our sins knowing thy ats why he shed his blood so we can simply step forth and accept by faith remission of our sins in his name because of his blood and by his words which created baptism for remission of sins in the gospel

I gave an answer in post #65. I replied to the wrong post.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Are you talking to me? I do nto understand your post and how it relates to the post you quoted.

He got our posts crossed it happens

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Sorry to you too. For some reason I hit the wrong post.

No biggy!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I disagree

Jesus spoke of being born of flesh and spirit to explain what it means to be born again

born out of water is born of the flesh

born out of the spirit is to be born in the spirit..

2 births, hence born again ( a second time)

a think of baptism by immersion you are taken by a man of God and lowered beneath the water buried in it , then you are lifted up from this burial by the Baptist (who’s meant to be filled with the Holy Ghost and called to baptize also ) and thisnis all done while confessing our sins and calling o. The name of Jesus as the baotizer baptized in his name

now consider what Paul’s teaching here about what baptism means to those who are baptized into Christ when they believe

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-6, 11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. ( Paul’s been talking about baptism into Christs death and resurrection ) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Other places we learn more about baptism like the born again part and how this ties to our inheritance promised to Abraham before the law of Moses

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭


There’s an understsnding involved with baptism into Christs name that’s part of our faith dying with him and being raised up again like the scrip of baptism by immersion were buried with him by baptism and raised with him by faith believing in his resurrection having heard of it

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12‬ ‭

it’s really just like communion it’s an action that doesn’t make sense doing until we believe what he said it is for if we learn what the Bible sa us baptism means to the person that is baptized everyone will run to get baptized that believes

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I gave an answer in post #65. I replied to the wrong post.

No worries brother reading the two responses it makes perfect sense now

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus spoke of being born of flesh and spirit to explain what it means to be born again

No He did not. Here is the exact statement: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Notice carefully that "born of water" is NOT the same as "born of the flesh". The flesh has nothing to do with the New Birth. So here is the "clean water" which represents the Word of God. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (Ezek 36:25)

Does ordinary water cleanse a soul? NO. But does the Word of God do so? YES. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word, (Eph 5:25.26)

How do we know this is true? Here are the words of Christ: Now ye are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you. (John 15:3) For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.(Heb 4:12.13)

 

[Nehemiah6]

...what your saying is t really making any sense here you seem to be avoiding the point John the Baptist who baptized for remission of sins and preached faith in jesus , and Peter who preached faith in jesus and then commanded baptism for remission of sins to both Jews and gentiles are baptizing the same baptism that was established by God through John the Baptist...

There is one "little" detail you have missed which is the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the gift of the Holy Spirit. That was not possible with John's baptism. and John said so himself. And it would not be possible until the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. But Peter said "ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" . HUGE DIFFERENCE!

 

[turbosixx]

did it say that they where were baptized were baptized.

or did it say that they who believed were baptized?

Peter only told those who repented to get baptized.. what did the people ho repented receive?

The bible says So those who received his word I think we can agree means believed and repented were baptized, hopefully we can agree based on the context is water. and there were added that day about three thousand souls Those who believe and were baptized and having received the Holy Spirit were added. Just as Jesus instructed the apostles days earlier Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved

If I understand what you are suggesting, are you asking what did those who only repented receive? The bible does not tell us. I'm curious of your thought on this. Based on the context, those who repented were baptized in the name of Jesus.

 

[turbosixx]

I do not see the word baptize..

can you show me?

also. when Jesus told nicodemus HOW to be born again, Can you show me the word baptize?

I suggest this isn't really a good argument. Would you want me to use this tactic with you?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No He did not. Here is the exact statement: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Notice carefully that "born of water" is NOT the same as "born of the flesh". The flesh has nothing to do with the New Birth. So here is the "clean water" which represents the Word of God. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. (Ezek 36:25)

Does ordinary water cleanse a soul? NO. But does the Word of God do so? YES. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word, (Eph 5:25.26)

How do we know this is true? Here are the words of Christ: Now ye are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you. (John 15:3) For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.(Heb 4:12.13)

unless one is born of water and spirit (2 births) Jesus is explaining what born again means.. not one birth but two births.. one in water (flesh) one in spirit (spirit)

what does he mean?

that which is born of flesh (physical) is flesh, that which is born of spirit is spirit.

being born in water is being born in the flesh.