Baptized for the dead ?

[Pilgrimshope]

I like the explanation in the RSV concerning this scripture. Appears to me Paul s speaking of the unrighteous.

29 Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?

Just a closer walk with thee.----George Jones

Yes he does touch on that concerning those who were saying “ live your life because this is all we have and tomorrow we die “ and explains that kind of speaking will corrupt thier faith in the “afterlife “ and resurrection unto life after they die d is exhorting then to awake to righteousness and repent of thier sins

before he gets to that point he seems to use several examples the church would understand to make the point “ if there is no hope beyond death then all we believe and endure is for not and we are most miserable because we give up our lives for no reason “

“ and all we do is foolishness as all we believe about Christs resurrection if there is no resurrection “

it seems this chapter is a strong argument for the resurrection because some had been saying among them there wasn’t a resurrection so we should just eat drink and be merry because when we die that’s it for us “

so his exhortation to them is not to let that conclusion into their thinking about there isn’t a resurrection.

it seems he’s using examples they would be familiar with to make his argument that the resurrection is a real thing so they should live as of this life is only a short part of eternal life. We should t just love our way but should repent and live as Christ taught because eternity is at stake rather than just our life here bieng all there is

good point you made there thanks for the thoughts

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do that in their temples.

yes I’m aware I think three people have said that now but isn’t the scripture still in the Bible even though lds have a practice like that ? What does that have to do with someone asking if other Christians have learned other scripture about it ?

lol I’m certainly not saying “ let’s all get baptized for the dead “ I was asking other people if they have read any scripture pertaining to it in the Bible , or had any thoughts about it . Because it’s on the Bible and I don’t understand it

what the lds do has zero to do with my question

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In verses 29-34 Paul argues the futility believing there is no resurrection, 29-34.

“Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, ‘Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!’”

“Do not be deceived: ‘Evil company corrupts good habits.’ Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.”

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then why......

A. The practice of a proxy baptism – “what will they do who are baptized for the dead…? Why then are they baptized for the dead?”

1. The first thing that has to be acknowledged here is that Paul affirms the existence of the practice at Corinth.

2. The second thing is that the existence of this practice testifies to the enormous importance that the early Church placed on baptism, even though this practice represents a perversion of it.

3. The third thing is that Paul does not ask, “why do you or we” but, why do “they,” whoever the ‘they' were. Paul is clearly separating himself and others at those at Corinth who did not practice this ritual for dead, from those who did. It must also be noted that Paul is not giving credence to the practice. He simply acknowledges that some, whom he does not identify, were practicing this, and it would appear that it was from among some of those who were claiming there was no resurrection.

This reveals the existence of yet another faction that existed among those at Corinth just like those who were forbidding to marry, and like those who had divided into factions over baptism, etc…. Some were teaching that there was no resurrection from the dead while at the same time, practicing this proxy ritual of baptism for the dead. Paul is not offering a defense for this practice. Rather, he is stressing the obvious absurdity of denying the resurrection and then baptizing for those who had died. How would they propose to defend the logic of this? Paul is not legitimizing the practice; he is showing the absurdity of it.

I find a lot of agreement in your post but the conclusion I’m not clear on are you saying it’s absurd for them to not believe in a resurrection and still be baptized for the dead ?

or are you saying Paul is saying it’s absurd to be baptized for the dead at all ?

it seems as if he’s not telling them it’s an absurd practice he never says it isn’t a practice they should do in my own thinking Paul would have just said “ don’t get baptized for the dead that’s heresey” of that was his point

on the other hand of your saying it would be absurd if they didn’t believe in a resurrection to get baptized for the dead that makes sense in my view because it’s how the whole chapter regarding the resurrection is laid out he does it a few times

“And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:14-17 KJV‬‬

“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he seems not to be saying that is not a practice they were doing but asking “ why do they do that if there is no resurrection ?

this part

“If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:32-34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I feel Is his conclusion that those who don’t believe in a resurrection conclude “ let’s eat drink and be merry for when we die that’s it we’re done “ ehiche is the evil communication saying “ death is the end so why not live your life and enjoy the flesh “ he’s saying in my view don’t think that way because we’re promised wternal Life even after our body dies and hearing and communicating that there is no life after we die would corrupt thier faith of a resurrection

 

[wattie]

It seems there was a practice in early Christianity of being baptized for the dead. Does anyone know anything other than this passage about this subject ? I have no clue but it does seem that Paul is mentioning it as a practice in Christianity

“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

any thoughts and especially any relevant scripture is appreciated

Gotta look at the context of this.

People were baptized in reference to Chrost being risen.. not dead. But there was a belief that the dead do not rise.

Paul was saying, when he was baptizing in reference to the risen Christ.. not dead.. why are we doing this baptism if the dead are not raised? If Christ is not risen?


Thereby declaring that Christ is risen and does raise the dead.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Gotta look at the context of this.

People were baptized in reference to Chrost being risen.. not dead. But there was a belief that the dead do not rise.

Paul was saying, when he was baptizing in reference to the risen Christ.. not dead.. why are we doing this baptism if the dead are not raised? If Christ is not risen?


Thereby declaring that Christ is risen and does raise the dead.

yes I think probably the sadducees belief. Had remained in Some of the religious in the church as doctrines seem to do . What I mean is Jesus was dealing with this already

“Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so I think the context is Paul addressing this same belief by some among them that there is no resurrection.

what I see is that he then makes a strong argument that there is a resurrection using the example of Christs resurrection saying if there is no resurrection everything we believe is foolishness because our belief is that we have eternal life even after our body dies . We will live and be resurrected for a new world to come.

Paul I think ( just what I think ) is using examples of things that made perfect sense to them like Jesus death and resurrection , saying if there is no resurrection then Christ wasn’t resurrected and all our faith is in vein and then uses being baptized for the dead as another example of something they would understand because some were being baptized for the dead Paul is saying as another example “ if there’s no resurrection, why be baptized for the dead it would be foolishness of no one is being raised “

so the context seems simple some we’re arguing that there is no resurrection, Paul then uses examples to argue that there certainly is one.

what I was curious about is if anyone had run across other scripture ot or new that touches on the subject or if anyone had any thoughts on the subject . Which I’ve received a lot of good thoughts to consider in the thread and am thankful also for yours there.

I know some scripture but also most often I can read posts here and see things that hadn’t sunk in by noticing o her scripture people have noticed that got past me. So I was most curious out if anyone had ran across any similar scripture at all that had mentioned such things.

not that I’m saying we should practice being baptized for the dead at all , it’s just a very curious couple verses to me and usually there is other scripture somewhere that helps understand things

 

[Wansvic]

An important point is Paul says "they" that are baptized for the dead, and not we. If it was a normal practice there would be confirming scriptures.

One can easily conclude from the NT accounts that people were familiar with the concept that upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus that one's sins were remitted. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) It may be that individuals began the unbiblical practice due to their concern that loved ones died lost.

Paul pointed out that even though some said they did not believe in the resurrection their actions in regards to proxy baptisms said otherwise.


"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" 1 Cor 15:29

 

[Pilgrimshope]

An important point is Paul says "they" that are baptized for the dead, and not we. If it was a normal practice there would be confirming scriptures.

One can easily conclude from the NT accounts that people were familiar with the concept that upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus that one's sins were remitted. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) It may be that individuals began the unbiblical practice due to their concern that loved ones died lost.

Paul pointed out that even though some said they did not believe in the resurrection their actions in regards to proxy baptisms said otherwise.


"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?" 1 Cor 15:29

yes I’m not insisting we take to being baptized for the dead at all , ot was just an inquiry as to others thoughts and even more so is there any other scripture regarding it in the Bible ? I myself haven’t found any but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

I do agree doctrine is always repetitive and clear

I do think Paul writing to the church is saying some of them among the church we’re doing it , but that’s only how I myself take what’s written there. I think he’s saying that because it’s a practice they in Corinth we’re familiar with and some were practicing and I don’t read Paul condemning e practice or even belittling it but using it as an example like your saying there “ why do that if there’s no resurrection ?”

but again it’s just how I’m reading what’s there and it could be as you are saying either way I really appreciate the input and good spirit it’s given in thanks for taking the time and participating and giving me some things to consider

 

[Wansvic]

yes I’m not insisting we take to being baptized for the dead at all , ot was just an inquiry as to others thoughts and even more so is there any other scripture regarding it in the Bible ? I myself haven’t found any but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

I do agree doctrine is always repetitive and clear

I do think Paul writing to the church is saying some of them among the church we’re doing it , but that’s only how I myself take what’s written there. I think he’s saying that because it’s a practice they in Corinth we’re familiar with and some were practicing and I don’t read Paul condemning e practice or even belittling it but using it as an example like your saying there “ why do that if there’s no resurrection ?”

but again it’s just how I’m reading what’s there and it could be as you are saying either way I really appreciate the input and good spirit it’s given in thanks for taking the time and participating and giving me some things to consider

I did not think you were in support of the practice. And, I, too, am not aware of any other scriptures on the topic.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I did not think you were in support of the practice. And, I, too, am not aware of any other scriptures on the topic.

yes I understood you didn’t think that I just wanted to be clear that I wasn’t advocating that we take to that practice or anything was really just curious about it because it only appears there as far as I know.

I’m glad so many left thoughts and ideas to consider for sure that’s what I was hoping for and appreciate the input