BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH

Ahwatukee · May 14, 2017

Hello abcdef,

Those saints who came out of the tombs and went into the city, I believe were resurrected in the same manner as Lazarus, which was in their mortal bodies, not their immortal and glorified bodies. In other words, they died again at a later date. No one but Jesus has yet to be resurrected into their immortal and glorified bodies. Regarding this, the church is next.

popeye · May 14, 2017

abcdef said:

The 144k were not resurrected with Jesus. They are men from earth. The flying scorpions are forbidden to sting them,and so they are mortals.

Another time line exception would be the martyrs of rev 20. Those martyrs are killed in the early part of the GT,and seen in heaven as the innumerable number.

popeye · May 14, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

I disagree in part.

Harvest is 4 part. Those in paradise,along with Jesus make up "first fruits". Jesus " took captivity captive",meaning he took those in paradise back to heaven.They are now there ,in heaven.

abcdef · May 14, 2017

tanakh said:

Thank you?? Ha Ha.

What I am saying, I know that it is a little different.

Here is how I see it.

The little scroll with 7 seals is opened, but not understood, until after the 6th trumpet has blown.

Once the scroll is read, it is found to be bitter, as in poison.

The 2 witnesses are the people of Israel, who are restored to Jerusalem, and killed there.

This could not be understood until after the 6th trumpet was blown (9/11, in my opinion, I know, it's really strange that it would be like this, but stranger prophecies being fulfilled, are yet to come)

And Israel had to be restored to Jerusalem.

This is why it could not be understood until now.

Interesting, do you have a scripture for that?

I see the mill as the time between the day of Pentecost and the 2nd resurrection, (there are only 2 resurrections Jesus and at His coming for the kingdom 1 Cor 15 23:24)

We are in the mill now. It is NOT a time of peace in the world, only peace with God in the kingdom, in the world.

This was when Israel was restored to full military control of Jerusalem. This ended the trampling of the gentile nations, Lk 21:24, Rev 11:2,

It's all about Jerusalem, and the natural branches being restored there.

It's a time line marker, Israel restored to Jerusalem.

When you count an army, you also count the support troops.

In this case, this would be all the people who hate Israel and are actively trying to destroy them.

So when you count it that way, with the gentiles Magog, Russia, Syria, Turkey, Egypt, etc, I'm thinking 200 mill easy.

Well, it is the "image" of the Roman Empire, that is in exactly the same spot as it was 2000 years ago. It was the beast taking his "seat" back, restored to nationhood, re-empowered. 1929

Look what happened to Israel after 1929. (Iran sided with Germany, the same evil spirit is there now, gaining power)

And the Vatican did wage war on the true Israel for 1500 years, while claiming to be the only true Israel/church themselves.

And the iron legs/etc. nation of the statue in Dan. 2, is solid iron to the stone strikes.

But the Roman Empire fell 1500 years ago. So what Roman Empire is there today, if the iron continues until the stone strikes?

Rome is the city,

Caesar is the Antichrist, Caesar as god, Caesar worship is the religion, man is god, worship the creation, Babylon.

The Roman Empire died, Who took his place? The image of Caesar, creating a spiritual kingdom image.

Who do they call holy father today?

Who claims to be the only true Israel/church?

WHO sits on the throne of Caesar right NOW? IN EXACTLY THE SAME SPOT? THE THRONE OF CAESAR? RIGHT NOW?

When did he return to his seat throne? 1929.

abcdef · May 14, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Brother Ahwatukee,

Even you would agree that there are different parts and divisions in the Rev., different sections.

You want to put them all in one time line, and I think that they are mostly showing the same events from different perspectives.

The seals and trumpets are one story, one time line. But after the 7th trumpet blows the dialog and time line changes to a description of the beast and the woman.

abcdef · May 14, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Then who is it speaking about in Eph 4:8-10? Who is it that Jesus brought "captive" with Him when He ascended?

iamsoandso · May 15, 2017

Thy "candlestick",,,(Revaluation 2;5) ,but not Ephesus(?),and then again (Revelation 18;23),so ,,,the light of a candle wont be herd any-more(so it was heard there before then) nor the voice of the bridegroom(so it takes place (AFTER) the "Marriage",,,hmm

Ahwatukee · May 15, 2017

abcdef said:

Those that Jesus lead in his train were the spirits/souls of those who were previously in that place where Abraham and Lazarus and all the rest of the OT saints were. Prior to Christ when the righteous died, their spirits/souls went to that place where Abraham and Lazarus were. Now when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. Those who are not in Christ when they die, they go into Sheol/Hades, which is the same place where the rich went to and who is still there.

Scripture supports this in that, at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ, the great white throne judgment will take place with those who are in Hades being resurrect to stand before God. (See Rev.20:11-15)

abcdef · May 15, 2017

Brother Ahwatukee,

Ahwatukee said:

I agree totally with this statement.

Can you take this logic and take it the next step?

If they were OT saints, that resurrected with Jesus, Where are they now in heaven?

Where are they shown in the Revelation? The 144000? The MNMC#? Those who live and reign with Jesus through the church/kingdom age, the mill?

After Rev 4, they are not called the church, because they are not part of the Pentecost kingdom/church, they are from the OT., They are OT saints from the resurrection of Jesus.

Where are they shown in the Revelation? (The 144000, first fruits)

Agree.

I'm still thinking on this one.

If the dead in Christ rise first, they must rise from somewhere to meet Jesus when He comes.

I'll have to agree with you about the resurrection of the physical body, to a degree.....

After all, a good example of the resurrection of the body would be the 2 witnesses (2Ws).

---

But I think that you would agree, that there is a significant change that takes place at that time.

1 Cor 15:44, "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Paul says that there 2 kinds of bodies.

1 Cor 15:49, "And as we have borne the image of the earthy,we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."

Are the Mormons right? does God look like George Burns? Ha ha.

Does God the Father look just like us? 2 eyes, legs, feet, etc?

Jesus said, if you've seen me, you've seen the Father, so the Father looks exactly like Jesus did physically?

Some how I get the feeling that the physical body is like an acorn, and the spiritual body is like an oak tree.

We will be the oak trees, shall we wish to remain acorns? But then maybe the acorn does not know or cannot envision the oak tree.

1 Cor 15:50, "....; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Nothing that can be less than eternally perfect, can enter the presence of God. Therefore the flesh, as we know it can not enter there. It Must be changed.

1 Cor 15:35, "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

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So now, the idea that when Jesus comes, that the "dead in Christ" who rise first, are exclusively the physical remains only of the persons, molecules, spread out, dust, etc., I can see that it is a possibility. But they would have to be changed.

But I'm still believing that when it says that the "dead in Christ" rise first, it's talking about souls in the paradise side of Hades (bosom of Abraham). I don't believe that the dead in Christ go directly to heaven. They rise at the resurrection.

Rom 14:9, "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that He might be Lord both of the dead and living."

When it says Lord of the dead, it would mean that He is present in Hades also, now.

So the dead are with Jesus, but when the dead in Christ rise, they are called to heaven, but they are not there now and must be resurrected.

Agree

Which resurrection is the one spoken of in Jn 5:28-29, where both the good and evil are brought to give an account.

Beginning of the 7 yr trib?

End of the 7 yrs?

End of mill?

Ahwatukee · May 15, 2017

To be clear, the OT saints that resurrected was not in their immortal and glorified bodies, but were resurrected in the same manner as Lazarus and they therefore died again. Jesus did not take this group to heaven. However, when they died again their spirits would have departed and gone to be in the presence of the Lord.

Those whom he took to heaven were those in their spirits/souls who were in that area where Abraham and Lazarus were, which would have included them also.

First of all, why would jump to the conclusion that those Jesus took to heaven as being the 144,000? And second, there is absolutely no scripture that would link those spirits that Jesus took back to heaven as being the 144,000. To do so would be purely conjecture on your part.

Do not confuse when the spirit departs from the body at the time of death, with the resurrection:

At the time of death: The spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. When the Lord appears to gather the church, he will bring with him those spirits/souls who have been in his presence and they will be reunited with their resurrect immortal and glorified bodies.

The resurrection: The Lord will appear and bring with him all of the spirits/souls who have died in him and they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies (1 Thes.4:14). Immediately after that, the living in Christ will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will meet those who will have previously resurrected in the clouds where the Lord will take the entire group back to the Father's house as promised in John 14:1-3.

You are correct! The body will change when the church is gathered. As said previously, those who have died in Christ, at the time of the gathering of the church, Jesus will bring those souls/spirits with him who will have been in his presence and their bodies will resurrect as immortal and glorified which they will be reunited to. Those who are still alive will simply be changed into those immortal and glorified bodies.

According to Phil.1:22-23 and 2 Cor.5:6-8, when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord and not down into that area where Abraham and Lazarus were.

To put it simply, those who have died in Christ, their soul/spirit are in Christ's presence in heaven and their bodies are decaying in the earth. At the resurrection, God will reanimate those bodies in an immortal and glorified state and their spirit/soul will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. All of this will happen in a Nano second.

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment"

Though the scripture above would seem to be saying that both the righteous and the unrighteous are resurrected at the same time, I believe that Jesus is generalizing here referring to both resurrections. We know from Rev.20:5 that the unrighteous dead from all of history do not resurrection until the end of the millennial period, where they will also receive a resurrected body and will stand before God at the great white throne and be judged. Rev.20:13 also demonstrates that their spirits/souls will be coming out of Hades, which is the same place where the rich man was/is. Then according to the scripture, anyone's name not found in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.

Bladerunner · May 15, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Hey Ahwatukee.. Jesus being crucified those three days, was in Hell (paradise/Abraham's Bosom). When he arose, it is said hat there were bodies from upturned graves walking around in the streets of Jerusalem. At the ascension of Jesus, those in paradise were transferred to heaven. I do not believe there is a paradise in Hell since that day. I feel those bodies that were walking around went back to their graves and will wait until their appointed time.

I have not even attempted to check out the history of this matter. I know for a fact that those that DIE today in Christ are in Heaven with him without scriptures. So, I will assume, this started at his Ascension. Yes, the Church is Next!

Have a great Day ole friend.

Blade

abcdef · May 24, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

So, who were the souls that Jesus lead in His train to heaven?

What souls, did Jesus take to heaven with Him?

Did He leave some behind?

Did He leave any good souls behind? In paradise, the bosom of Abraham?

MattforJesus · May 24, 2017

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Php 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Php 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The Old Testament saints had their sins washed away completely,and are with Christ.All Old Testament,and New Testament saints,are with Jesus,and He said when all the saints are gathered unto Him,the last being the resurrection,then He will avenge the saints by defeating the world.

The way Jesus ascended is the way He will return,which He was on the Mount of Olives,and will destroy the beast,and his army,with the brightness of His coming,and in Zechariah 14,God is going to gather all nations together against Jerusalem,the Jews,and come back with all His saints,and step down on the Mount of Olives,and the plague upon those that fought against the Jews is their flesh will melt off their bones.

All the saints that have died are with Jesus awaiting all the saints to join them,and when the resurrection happens He does not leave any saint behind,and will only work with the Jews at that time.

Ahwatukee · May 24, 2017

Hello abcdef,

You should know the answer to this. Remember that place where after Lazarus died and his spirit/soul departed and was found in that place of paradise across from Sheol/Hades? The rich man was on the side of torment and Abraham and Lazarus were in the other area across from him in a place of comfort. This is also the same place where all of the OT saints went to. Therefore, when Jesus ascended to the Father, he emptied out that area of comfort/paradise and took all of the OT saints with him to heaven.

Now when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit/soul departs from their body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, as described in Phil.1:23 and 2 Cor.5:6

Those who die without Christ, their spirit/soul departs and goes to the same place that the rich man went, which is that place of torment opposite that place where Abraham and Lazarus were. These will be resurrected at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment, only to be cast into the lake of fire.

abcdef · May 26, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Hello abcdef,

You should know the answer to this. Remember that place where after Lazarus died and his spirit/soul departed and was found in that place of paradise across from Sheol/Hades? The rich man was on the side of torment and Abraham and Lazarus were in the other area across from him in a place of comfort. This is also the same place where all of the OT saints went to. Therefore, when Jesus ascended to the Father, he emptied out that area of comfort/paradise and took all of the OT saints with him to heaven.

Now when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit/soul departs from their body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, as described in Phil.1:23 and 2 Cor.5:6

Those who die without Christ, their spirit/soul departs and goes to the same place that the rich man went, which is that place of torment opposite that place where Abraham and Lazarus were. These will be resurrected at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment, only to be cast into the lake of fire.

Brother Ahwatukee,

If you follow the logic, that these ascended with Jesus, where are they seen in the Revelation?

Are they the 144000? the MNMC#? the 24 elders? Any of these?

If they are in heaven already, are they shown?

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abcdef · May 26, 2017

Friends,

The end of this material world is coming.

I know that you do not want to believe it, that someone knows when it will be, 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls to Iran and it's allies, Magog.

I know that everybody else says different, I can't help that, all I can do is try to help you understand what is coming.

Pre-trib refuses to acknowledge that the beast is Rome, the iron legs/toes and the 4th beast.

They say that we are in the time of the iron legs just before the 10 toes, but then refuse to name the Roman Empire as the present time period.

If they agree that the Roman Empire exists at this time, it can ONLY be the Vatican, which screws up the pre trib time line.

They will say ANYTHING to prevent this truth from being understood.

WHO is the iron legs right NOW?

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The beast is ROME.

The iron legs are Rome.

The 4th beast is Rome.

The dragon beast with 7 heads is Rome.

The Antichrist is Caesar and the Bishop of Rome.

It can ONLY be the Bishop of Rome who sits on the throne of Caesar, the seat of the beast, the city of Rome, the Vatican, he is there right now!

Wake UP!

-----

When has the real truth ever been popular?

Jeremiah? Elijah? Jesus?

None of these would win a popularity contest, in their time.

All of these were considered false prophets by the majority.

But in time the truth was revealed.

-----

And so it is with this prophecy.

It may be months or years, but Iran and it's allies will attack Jerusalem, and Jerusalem will fall.

They will meet in the valley of Armageddon, just as it says, Israel will be defeated.

When that happens, look for the fulfillment of the story of the 2 witnesses, who are the people of Israel, the natural branches.

They will lie in the streets for 3 1/2 days.

The Enemies of Israel will celebrate and send gifts to each other.

-----

Crustyone · Jun 15, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Daniel 12:11-12 says that there will be 3 1/2 years between the two actions cited in your fourth bullet point. ([FONT=&quot]11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.)

I would like your opinion as to whether the 14th verse in Daniel 8:13-14 ([/FONT]13 [FONT=&quot]Then I heard a holy one[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot]’s people?”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”) is indicating the return of Christ when it mentions the sanctuary being reconsecrated?[/FONT]

abcdef · Jun 15, 2017

Friends,

You can debate the prophecies until the end of this planet, which is only a short time away.

But soon the realities of the present situation in the Middle East are going to bring the attention of the whole world to Israel and Jerusalem.

Forces of prophecy are in motion at this time and are spiraling towards the end of this planet.

Iran, who is the kings of the East, is going to attack Israel.

Magog/Gog, the gentile nations, will support them, Russia, Syria, etc..

These forces are already building in power, getting in position, building up their weapons.

Every day, they teach the children, death to Israel.

Every day, they swear to give their lives to the spirit of Satan, to destroy Israel.

That is who they are, that is who they serve, that is who they have chosen to give their spirits to, Satan, the destroyer of Israel.

They are preachers of lies and hate and murder. Out of their mouths issues fire and smoke and brimstone.

They deceive with their mouths, and in the end the false prophets bring death.

Death to Israel and eternal death to themselves.

-------

When will Christians realize that this is the end?

When the armies of Iran begin to cross the Euphrates? (They already have)

When the bombs, rockets, and missiles begin to rain down on Israel?

They will meet in the valley of Armageddon, Israel will lose.

Jerusalem will be surrounded and fall.

3 1/2 days later Jesus comes to take possession of the kingdom.

Then the stone strikes, the fire from heaven, and the end of this planet, judgement, eternity.

This is happening before your eyes.

This is it, Jesus is coming.

Wake Up! Wake Up!

He will be here after Jerusalem falls!

This is the call!

Behold the Bridegroom Cometh! Wake up!

KJV1611 · Jun 15, 2017

abcdef said:

Friends,

You can debate the prophecies until the end of this planet, which is only a short time away.

But soon the realities of the present situation in the Middle East are going to bring the attention of the whole world to Israel and Jerusalem.

Forces of prophecy are in motion at this time and are spiraling towards the end of this planet.

Iran, who is the kings of the East, is going to attack Israel.

Magog/Gog, the gentile nations, will support them, Russia, Syria, etc..

These forces are already building in power, getting in position, building up their weapons.

Every day, they teach the children, death to Israel.

Every day, they swear to give their lives to the spirit of Satan, to destroy Israel.

That is who they are, that is who they serve, that is who they have chosen to give their spirits to, Satan, the destroyer of Israel.

They are preachers of lies and hate and murder. Out of their mouths issues fire and smoke and brimstone.

They deceive with their mouths, and in the end the false prophets bring death.

Death to Israel and eternal death to themselves.

-------

When will Christians realize that this is the end?

When the armies of Iran begin to cross the Euphrates? (They already have)

When the bombs, rockets, and missiles begin to rain down on Israel?

They will meet in the valley of Armageddon, Israel will lose.

Jerusalem will be surrounded and fall.

3 1/2 days later Jesus comes to take possession of the kingdom.

Then the stone strikes, the fire from heaven, and the end of this planet, judgement, eternity.

This is happening before your eyes.

This is it, Jesus is coming.

Wake Up! Wake Up!

He will be here after Jerusalem falls!

This is the call!

Behold the Bridegroom Cometh! Wake up!

What do you mean by the bridegroom cometh... he came 2000 years ago didn't he?

Matthew 9:15 KJV
And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

LoveGodForever · Jun 15, 2017

abcdef said:

.

Jesus will come for the Pentecost kingdom 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls to Iran and it's allies.

---------

This is based on 1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24,

1. 1st resurrection.....Jesus and all the OT saints

The OT saints are seen with Jesus at the writing of the Revelation.

2. 2nd resurrection....Jesus comes for the Pentecost Kingdom.

The dead rise, we meet Him in the air.

3. The end....of the resurrections and this planet. Fire from heaven Rev 20, last judgement.

4. Death destroyed.....As shown in Rev 20:14-15.

5. The Kingdom is delivered up to the Father.......For the wedding.

6. Jesus submits to the Father to be all in all.

----------

Revelation is not one timeline.

The 7th trumpet (last), the 7th vial, and the fire from heaven in Rev 20, are all the same events.

(the 6th/7th seals show the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad, [Lk 23:28-30, 30, compared to Rev 6:12:17, 16])

=========================

We are at the end of Revelation, not the beginning.

The events that are taking place in the Middle East are leading to the fall of Jerusalem to Iran (Kings of the East) and their allies (Russia, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Turkey, etc, it's a long list).

This is shown in Rev 20:2, as the dragon (Rome, Rev 12:3), deceiving Magog to surround Jerusalem. Also see Rev 16:12-16.

=====================

As time goes by,

The situation will become clearer, if you have not realized it yet.

Jerusalem is going to fall to Iran.

3 1/2 days later will be the resurrection and the end of this planet.

When the resurrection takes place, if you are still here,

you will be killed by the fire from heaven.

There won't be any 2nd chances.

====================

No man knows the day not the hour.......... Behold he comes as a thief in the night

BEHOLD, THE BRIDEGROOM COMETH

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