Beliefs Regarding The Flood
- Thread starter Budman
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Bible talks about a flood in Noah's day and then it talks about a flood in the Christian time frame later on when we read: "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
Daniel speaks of this later flood also: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
Revelation mentions this same Christian era flood: "And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."
Matthew mentions it a little more fully: "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
But how can it be that 2 Peter says that there was a flood way back then, but will only be a fire in the future to destroy the earth ("But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reservedunto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."), when we just read in Daniel that the end will be with a flood?
The answer is that we are not looking at physical phenomenon in this future language but parable words which are talking of spiritual judgment of the congregations at the time in question. 'Fire' is Bible word which refers to spiritual judgment that falls on the congregations such that they are in the unsaved condition. Indeed, when fire falls on Sodom and Gomorrah, only a very few escape, namely Lot and family. Lot and family are pictures of the believers who are still in the Lord. Jesus said it would be the same as with Lot in the end time scenario. Jesus also gave reference to Noah's flood as being like this time as well. The flood is a picture of the destruction spiritually of the those in the congregations, whilst once again, very few escape, Namely Noah and his family (a picture of believers). Notice in Revelation, the flood comes out of the dragon's mouth. Does this mean there will be a physical dragon? Of course not, which even all these physical-minded contributors found in this forum would probably agree. There is no Smaug. But there is Satan, and Satan takes his seat in the temple, particularly in the spiritual sense in that the congregations are in the unsaved condition. The true believers enter into the ark of the Lord's protection though, the ark being a picture of God's eternal covenant with his own.
The flood mentioned is over the "whole earth", but Dan58 was good to point out that the term 'earth' can mean land or country as well. That is why some Bible passages refer to the flood as being a thing of Egypt. Egypt is spiritually the city where our lord was crucified, in other words Jerusalem. Everything that has God's spiritual life dies, meaning the congregations become devoid of Christ. Fortunately, the Lord leaves a small remnant of his own alive: "Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah."
Daniel speaks of this later flood also: "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
Revelation mentions this same Christian era flood: "And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."
Matthew mentions it a little more fully: "For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
But how can it be that 2 Peter says that there was a flood way back then, but will only be a fire in the future to destroy the earth ("But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reservedunto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."), when we just read in Daniel that the end will be with a flood?
The answer is that we are not looking at physical phenomenon in this future language but parable words which are talking of spiritual judgment of the congregations at the time in question. 'Fire' is Bible word which refers to spiritual judgment that falls on the congregations such that they are in the unsaved condition. Indeed, when fire falls on Sodom and Gomorrah, only a very few escape, namely Lot and family. Lot and family are pictures of the believers who are still in the Lord. Jesus said it would be the same as with Lot in the end time scenario. Jesus also gave reference to Noah's flood as being like this time as well. The flood is a picture of the destruction spiritually of the those in the congregations, whilst once again, very few escape, Namely Noah and his family (a picture of believers). Notice in Revelation, the flood comes out of the dragon's mouth. Does this mean there will be a physical dragon? Of course not, which even all these physical-minded contributors found in this forum would probably agree. There is no Smaug. But there is Satan, and Satan takes his seat in the temple, particularly in the spiritual sense in that the congregations are in the unsaved condition. The true believers enter into the ark of the Lord's protection though, the ark being a picture of God's eternal covenant with his own.
The flood mentioned is over the "whole earth", but Dan58 was good to point out that the term 'earth' can mean land or country as well. That is why some Bible passages refer to the flood as being a thing of Egypt. Egypt is spiritually the city where our lord was crucified, in other words Jerusalem. Everything that has God's spiritual life dies, meaning the congregations become devoid of Christ. Fortunately, the Lord leaves a small remnant of his own alive: "Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah."
Last edited:
God caused the Scriptures to be written through men using men's terminology. If Noah looked around and saw nothing but water he would naturally say that 'all the mountains under the whole heavens were covered', and that the waters had 'prevailed upon the land' (erets). There is no requirement in the language that it should be what WE call worldwide..
You are in no position to dogmatise as to how the Holy Spirit would caused it to be written. You and I see God as revealing things very differently. You are entitled to your view. But that is all it is, a viewpoint. The language of Scripture is fully satisfied in seeing it as a huge flood that destroyed mankind. The fact that it fits the facts better is an added bonus.
You are in no position to dogmatise as to how the Holy Spirit would caused it to be written. You and I see God as revealing things very differently. You are entitled to your view. But that is all it is, a viewpoint. The language of Scripture is fully satisfied in seeing it as a huge flood that destroyed mankind. The fact that it fits the facts better is an added bonus.
I refer you to my previous post, We are clearly told in Genesis 6:17 that ALL LIFE would be wiped out, that is why Noah took 2 of everything in the ark, if it was only local because humans only populated that tiny area, then why the need to take every animal in existence on to the ark? You are going to need to come up with something spectacular to prove that no animal lived outside this localised flood area.
A very fascinating discussion so far. Thanks!
BTW, I believe the Flood was worldwide.
If it were merely local, people could have simply fled to higher ground. You would think many would have gotten up on debris and floated/paddled until they reached some land.
And if the Flood was merely local, it would have been utterly pointless to take animals into the Ark, as there were plenty of animals outside of any localized flooded area.
BTW, I believe the Flood was worldwide.
If it were merely local, people could have simply fled to higher ground. You would think many would have gotten up on debris and floated/paddled until they reached some land.
And if the Flood was merely local, it would have been utterly pointless to take animals into the Ark, as there were plenty of animals outside of any localized flooded area.
we don't need to prove anything of the kind.
What Scripture ACTUALLY says is, 'to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under the heavens, everything that is on the earth/area of land will die.'
That is very different from ALL LIFE universally.
As Noah looked north, south, east and west and saw the 'whole heaven' he knew that everything under it would die. God was speaking to Noah in terms that he would appreciate. The whole area of land in which he was and had knowledge of would be flooded and all life in it wiped out.
God does expect us to use our intelligence (although sometimes we may doubt it with some over enthusiastic people). If kangaroos and wallabies and koalas had been on the ark we would expect to find them in Africa/Asia. And the same is true for many other species. That they are not there suggests that they were never in the ark.
It was the species within the sphere of the Flood that had to be protected. All flesh in which was the breath of life known to Noah.
What Scripture ACTUALLY says is, 'to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under the heavens, everything that is on the earth/area of land will die.'
That is very different from ALL LIFE universally.
As Noah looked north, south, east and west and saw the 'whole heaven' he knew that everything under it would die. God was speaking to Noah in terms that he would appreciate. The whole area of land in which he was and had knowledge of would be flooded and all life in it wiped out.
God does expect us to use our intelligence (although sometimes we may doubt it with some over enthusiastic people). If kangaroos and wallabies and koalas had been on the ark we would expect to find them in Africa/Asia. And the same is true for many other species. That they are not there suggests that they were never in the ark.
It was the species within the sphere of the Flood that had to be protected. All flesh in which was the breath of life known to Noah.
No one is saying that the flood was 'merely local'. It covered 'the whole land', including the mountain areas, inhabited by man, the equivalent of a continent. They had nowhere to flee. The breaking up of the fountains of the great deep would make it impossible to escape by water. At least paddling in it would have been exciting LOL
Nothing....... "By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and by the breath of His mouth all their host. He gathers the waters of the sea together as a heap; He lays up the deeps in storehouses. Let all the earth fear the LORD; Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him. For He spoke, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast." Psalm 33:9
Last edited:
Noah wasn't the only one who owned a boat. Gathering some provisions and having access to fresh water via rain, would not have been difficult during the initial flooding. Canopied boats have been referenced from before the time of Noah. It's not improbable that many could have sailed until they reached dry land - if the Flood was localized.
And, you don't think it's possible for even a single human being to live outside of the congregated area?
But again, if it was not worldwide, what was the point of taking all of those animals into the Ark if countless other animals survived outside of the flood zone?
And, you don't think it's possible for even a single human being to live outside of the congregated area?
But again, if it was not worldwide, what was the point of taking all of those animals into the Ark if countless other animals survived outside of the flood zone?
Lets just pretend that we don't have the whole history of the world bound in leather. What if there was a flyby of another planet as reported by past civilizations? What if it did cause a pole shift mixing all of the contents of the surface of the Earth, covering the previous north and south poles with dirt and burying organisms that would one day power automobiles? Then in the aftermath of such destruction God began anew. What if the planet's orbit causes another flyby and God sees men's wickedness and decides to only intervene with one particular family? Perhaps the ice that was buried was now water and "springs" up out of the earth. What if the planet is scheduled for another flyby in the near future and that is truly what is described in Revelations and when Christ commented on when he will return coming in a cloud (Luke 21: 25-36)? That DAY the Bible says will be unexpected. That will be the rapture. Christ, not Noah, is coming to save us from this disaster. Those who are drunk and stressed out, and in a panic are going to "miss the boat" like the virgins without oil for their lamps. It states, "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape ALL these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." The New World Order is predicted to take place after this event, to make "order out of chaos" after the destruction. Although it is not play by play written in biblical texts this all seems highly plausible. Archaeology shows us that many civilizations start out knowledgeable about many things, but are using primitive tools, kind of like would happen if we just lost everything and had to start all over again. It also shows us that for some reason many got wiped out quickly. Days of Noah people, these are the days of Noah.
P
Matthew chapter 24 verses 27 thru 39
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Christ's gathering together of His elect will be a global event and not a local event and He compared it to the days of Noah. Yes, said gathering will affect the four winds or the north, south, east and west from one end of heaven to the other. Why then would we even consider that Noah's flood was merely a local flood? To me, it's ridiculous and poor scholarship.
Furthermore, Christ mentioned how heaven and earth shall pass away and this won't be the first time that such a thing has happened. Again, according to scripture, our present heaven and earth are not the same heaven and earth that we read about in Genesis chapter one. At the time of Noah's flood, that heaven and earth underwent drastic changes and Peter wrote about the same:
2 Peter chapter 3 verses 5 thru 13
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Peter begins by describing the heavens of old and the earth which stood in the water and out of the water and this is a direct reference back to Genesis chapter 1 verses 9 and 10:
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Peter continued on to tell us that the world that then was perished, not only a localized part of it, and contrasted it with the heavens and the earth which are now. Again, we're currently living in a new heavens and a new earth in that they're not the original heavens and earth of Genesis chapter 1. Furthermore, there is yet another new heavens and earth coming which is the Christian's hope and said new heavens and earth are definitely global in sphere, so why the heck is anybody even considering that Noah's flood was only local in sphere?
Like I said, it's poor scholarship.
Besides, there are plenty of evidences which we can look at globally which point to a global flood, but the global flood deniers will merely attribute the same to different localized floods which produced the same types of evidences and when looked at together they merely give the appearance of one global flood. I'll give some examples of what I mean if I need to.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Christ's gathering together of His elect will be a global event and not a local event and He compared it to the days of Noah. Yes, said gathering will affect the four winds or the north, south, east and west from one end of heaven to the other. Why then would we even consider that Noah's flood was merely a local flood? To me, it's ridiculous and poor scholarship.
Furthermore, Christ mentioned how heaven and earth shall pass away and this won't be the first time that such a thing has happened. Again, according to scripture, our present heaven and earth are not the same heaven and earth that we read about in Genesis chapter one. At the time of Noah's flood, that heaven and earth underwent drastic changes and Peter wrote about the same:
2 Peter chapter 3 verses 5 thru 13
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Peter begins by describing the heavens of old and the earth which stood in the water and out of the water and this is a direct reference back to Genesis chapter 1 verses 9 and 10:
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Peter continued on to tell us that the world that then was perished, not only a localized part of it, and contrasted it with the heavens and the earth which are now. Again, we're currently living in a new heavens and a new earth in that they're not the original heavens and earth of Genesis chapter 1. Furthermore, there is yet another new heavens and earth coming which is the Christian's hope and said new heavens and earth are definitely global in sphere, so why the heck is anybody even considering that Noah's flood was only local in sphere?
Like I said, it's poor scholarship.
Besides, there are plenty of evidences which we can look at globally which point to a global flood, but the global flood deniers will merely attribute the same to different localized floods which produced the same types of evidences and when looked at together they merely give the appearance of one global flood. I'll give some examples of what I mean if I need to.
So you know when the time of Noah was? I don't think so 
It was very much in prehistoric times. Noah spent 120 years preparing the craft, designed for him by God, and he no doubt had divine assistance. He knew the strength that he had to give it and what it would and would not require. Furthermore it would be God sustained.
Do you really think that a number of hastily assembled crafts could be made strong enough and sizeable enough to survive a year long flood when the waters were very disturbed to say the least? I don't think so We are talking about relatively primitive people. Furthermore they would not know what land there was 'across the sea' or if there was any. They were limited to their own sphere of land. And I hardly think that they had time to plan anything. Any attempts they made would be desperate and primitive. God would know how far humanity stretched. I don't think He would have any problem in ensuring they were wiped out.
I think your problem is partly that you are thinking of a local flood. It was something far bigger than that. It engulfed all mankind.
It was very much in prehistoric times. Noah spent 120 years preparing the craft, designed for him by God, and he no doubt had divine assistance. He knew the strength that he had to give it and what it would and would not require. Furthermore it would be God sustained. Do you really think that a number of hastily assembled crafts could be made strong enough and sizeable enough to survive a year long flood when the waters were very disturbed to say the least? I don't think so
We are talking about relatively primitive people. Furthermore they would not know what land there was 'across the sea' or if there was any. They were limited to their own sphere of land. And I hardly think that they had time to plan anything. Any attempts they made would be desperate and primitive. God would know how far humanity stretched. I don't think He would have any problem in ensuring they were wiped out. I think your problem is partly that you are thinking of a local flood. It was something far bigger than that. It engulfed all mankind.
yes we will agree to differ you interpret Scripture your way and I will interpret it mine (both with the help of the Holy Spirit ) You see God isn't really interested in our view about the extent of the Flood. He is concerned that we elarn the lessons from it.
you interpret Scripture your way and I will interpret it mine (both with the help of the Holy Spirit ) You see God isn't really interested in our view about the extent of the Flood. He is concerned that we elarn the lessons from it.
P
Sure.
One example would be polystrate fossils, such as tree trunks, which extend through more than one geological stratum and these are found worldwide. Here are a couple of pictures:
Another example would be these types of rock strata formations which are found worldwide where such bending was caused in such a swirling type fashion as flood waters and sediments were settling:
Stuff like that.
Of course, again, global flood deniers will attribute such worldwide phenomena to separate localized floods which when viewed together only give the appearance of a single global flood.
One example would be polystrate fossils, such as tree trunks, which extend through more than one geological stratum and these are found worldwide. Here are a couple of pictures:
Another example would be these types of rock strata formations which are found worldwide where such bending was caused in such a swirling type fashion as flood waters and sediments were settling:
Stuff like that.
Of course, again, global flood deniers will attribute such worldwide phenomena to separate localized floods which when viewed together only give the appearance of a single global flood.
Who's timeline are you going by? Man's, or the Bible's?
Who said they had to survive for a year? They simply had to survive long enough to reach land untouched by the localized flooding.
Explorers throughout the ages never had a problem setting out to discover new lands not included in their "sphere". And they weren't as "primitive" as you make them out to be.
And once again you failed to address the issue as to why Noah would bother to take all of those animals (including the enormous amounts of food they required) into the Ark when there would be countless other animals who remained alive outside of the flooded area.
Who said they had to survive for a year? They simply had to survive long enough to reach land untouched by the localized flooding.
Explorers throughout the ages never had a problem setting out to discover new lands not included in their "sphere". And they weren't as "primitive" as you make them out to be.
And once again you failed to address the issue as to why Noah would bother to take all of those animals (including the enormous amounts of food they required) into the Ark when there would be countless other animals who remained alive outside of the flooded area.
Last edited:
well your scholarship is clearly poor what Christ compared with the days of Noah was not the extent of the catastrophe but the behaviour of the people involved. thus your argument does not hold.
well as I have shown you, your scholarship is faulty to begin with Besides world conceptions were very different in 1st century AD. Why should we apply language used in Jesus day with language used of an event thousands of years earlier?
Incidentally strictly speaking the heavens don't have 'an end'. So 'from one end of heaven to the other' is limiting it to what could be SEEN.
Heaven and earth have never passed away before. When they do so there will be no more universe (unless you try to twist the language). They will have been totally destroyed.
Of course it is the same heaven and earth, even if it has changed somewhat. It is ALWAYS changing. Hadn't you noticed?
But it was the same heaven and earth. But when it has passed away it will no longer be so.
2 Peter chapter 3 verses 5 thru 13
actually the world as such did not perish, unless by perish you mean changed profoundly. It was the world of mankind which perished. And it was the world of men which Peter was concerned about as his following words make clear.
Note how the emphasis is on what happens to MEN. The destruction is to encompass mankind.
Notice that the emphasis is on the perishing of MEN. The word perish is only used of MEN. During this perishing of men (as at the flood) the whole creation will be destroyed and will be no more (which didn't happen at the flood). But it is mankind who PERISH. See how a little real scholarship helps?
well the world of things did NOT perish. It was still there after the Flood. It was the world OF MEN which perished, thus it was certainly localised to men.
No we are not. At least I'm not. I'm still living in the world that God created. Of course they are the original heavens and earth of chapter 1. Who got rid of them?
They are NOT 'another' new heavens and earth. They will be unique. And who says the new heavens and the new earth are global? They will be a spiritual new heavens and new earth inhabited by God and Jesus Christ and those with heavenly spiritual bodies. We have no idea what it will be like.
I really cannot see what that has to do with the Flood and its extent..
well it seems to me as if it is YOUR scholarship which is poor. By the way, what are your credentials?
I suggest you do give the examples. And you will have to make them good. you will be attacked on all sides lol
what Christ compared with the days of Noah was not the extent of the catastrophe but the behaviour of the people involved. thus your argument does not hold. well as I have shown you, your scholarship is faulty to begin with
Besides world conceptions were very different in 1st century AD. Why should we apply language used in Jesus day with language used of an event thousands of years earlier? Incidentally strictly speaking the heavens don't have 'an end'. So 'from one end of heaven to the other' is limiting it to what could be SEEN.
Heaven and earth have never passed away before. When they do so there will be no more universe (unless you try to twist the language). They will have been totally destroyed.
Of course it is the same heaven and earth, even if it has changed somewhat. It is ALWAYS changing. Hadn't you noticed?
But it was the same heaven and earth. But when it has passed away it will no longer be so.
2 Peter chapter 3 verses 5 thru 13
actually the world as such did not perish, unless by perish you mean changed profoundly. It was the world of mankind which perished. And it was the world of men which Peter was concerned about as his following words make clear.
Note how the emphasis is on what happens to MEN. The destruction is to encompass mankind.
Notice that the emphasis is on the perishing of MEN. The word perish is only used of MEN. During this perishing of men (as at the flood) the whole creation will be destroyed and will be no more (which didn't happen at the flood). But it is mankind who PERISH. See how a little real scholarship helps?
well the world of things did NOT perish. It was still there after the Flood. It was the world OF MEN which perished, thus it was certainly localised to men.
No we are not. At least I'm not. I'm still living in the world that God created. Of course they are the original heavens and earth of chapter 1. Who got rid of them?
They are NOT 'another' new heavens and earth. They will be unique. And who says the new heavens and the new earth are global? They will be a spiritual new heavens and new earth inhabited by God and Jesus Christ and those with heavenly spiritual bodies. We have no idea what it will be like.
I really cannot see what that has to do with the Flood and its extent..
well it seems to me as if it is YOUR scholarship which is poor. By the way, what are your credentials?
I suggest you do give the examples. And you will have to make them good. you will be attacked on all sides lol