Believing on his name

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GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
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#21
Romans 10:9 KJV

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This is what it takes to be saved. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, i.e. talk about him (not to put it exactly - with all humbleness), and believe that God raised him from the dead (in your heart), thou shalt be saved. To put it into other words if you are doing such a thing and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. But all you really need to do is to believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
Yes, but the key part of that statement is not the outward act of confession but the inward willingness to accept Jesus as Lord. At the moment of repentance/confession/acceptance, God’s Holy Spirit (HS) enters believers’ spiritual hearts (RV 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (RM 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (CL 1:18). Paul referred to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision, which baptism with the HS apparently replaced. This manifold event is also called spiritual birth or baptism (1CR 12:13). (We can infer that this dynamic occurs also for pre-NT believers like Abraham, because there is no salvation outside of Christ’s ekklesia or church per ACTS 4:12).

Confusion may arise from the fact that in Ephesians 4:5 Paul says there is only one baptism, but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS. In His “Great Commission” Jesus tied saving faith closely to the work of water baptism when He said “Make disciples of all nations, baptizing them” (MT 28:19). Yet, in 1 Corinthians 12:13 Paul wrote that “We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body.” This suggests that spirit baptism occurs at the moment of conversion, when the HS unites the new saint (saved sinner/soul) with Christ, because “if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” (RM 8:9) The evidence that a person has been baptized by God’s Spirit or included in Christ’s spiritual body is love in its myriad forms (GL 5:22-23, JN 13:35).

Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are united if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS. The details for this work are vague, but the mode of immersion best portrays a Believer’s spiritual union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection to eternal life (CL 2:12, RM 6:4). As a practical matter, a new Believer normally would be baptized by the local congregation of the catholic (worldwide) church in which he/she will want to participate as an acknowledged member. Water baptism symbolizes spiritual baptism.

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. MT 3:13-15, ACTS 2:38). Although Paul did not command baptism, he administered it (in ACTS 16:33, 18:8, 19:5 & 1CR 1:114-16) even though he said Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1CR 1:17). IOW, Paul’s focus was on preaching (spirit baptism) and he probably left most water baptizing to his assistants.
 
Sep 24, 2012
650
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#22
I think it is important to use the language of the King James Version of the Holy Bible (the standard $8-$12 variety, ie. the actual Holy Bible) when believing on his name, or it might NOT happen, because you are believing something else. I'm talking about the one published by Thomas Nelson. I think it might be the Red Letter edition.
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
3,047
692
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#23
I think it is important to use the language of the King James Version of the Holy Bible (the standard $8-$12 variety, ie. the actual Holy Bible) when believing on his name, or it might NOT happen, because you are believing something else. I'm talking about the one published by Thomas Nelson. I think it might be the Red Letter edition.
I hope you are joking, but if not, then go ahead and use the KJV, which means the same thing as other translations.
 

Beckworth

Well-known member
May 15, 2019
813
335
63
#24
Yes, but the key part of that statement is not the outward act of confession but the inward willingness to accept Jesus as Lord. At the moment of repentance/confession/acceptance, God’s Holy Spirit (HS) enters believers’ spiritual hearts (RV 3:20), uniting them with God as heavenly Father (RM 8:9) and identifying them with Christ’s worldwide/catholic body or church (CL 1:18). Paul referred to the comparable moment for Abraham as spiritual circumcision, which baptism with the HS apparently replaced. This manifold event is also called spiritual birth or baptism (1CR 12:13). (We can infer that this dynamic occurs also for pre-NT believers like Abraham, because there is no salvation outside of Christ’s ekklesia or church per ACTS 4:12).

Confusion may arise from the fact that in Ephesians 4:5 Paul says there is only one baptism, but elsewhere the NT seems to refer to two types of baptism: one by water and another by the HS. In His “Great Commission” Jesus tied saving faith closely to the work of water baptism when He said “Make disciples of all nations, baptizing them” (MT 28:19). Yet, in 1 Corinthians 12:13 Paul wrote that “We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body.” This suggests that spirit baptism occurs at the moment of conversion, when the HS unites the new saint (saved sinner/soul) with Christ, because “if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” (RM 8:9) The evidence that a person has been baptized by God’s Spirit or included in Christ’s spiritual body is love in its myriad forms (GL 5:22-23, JN 13:35).

Any confusion is resolved by understanding that the two types of baptism are united if baptism with water is viewed as a symbolic way of portraying baptism by the HS. The details for this work are vague, but the mode of immersion best portrays a Believer’s spiritual union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection to eternal life (CL 2:12, RM 6:4). As a practical matter, a new Believer normally would be baptized by the local congregation of the catholic (worldwide) church in which he/she will want to participate as an acknowledged member. Water baptism symbolizes spiritual baptism.

Both outward confession and water baptism may be seen as works manifesting love for God that every new Believer will want to (but we cannot say “must”) perform as soon as possible following his/her decision to have saving faith (cf. MT 3:13-15, ACTS 2:38). Although Paul did not command baptism, he administered it (in ACTS 16:33, 18:8, 19:5 & 1CR 1:114-16) even though he said Christ did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel (1CR 1:17). IOW, Paul’s focus was on preaching (spirit baptism) and he probably left most water baptizing to his assistants.


Actually, there are 5 baptisms mentioned in the New Testament.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Acts2:38
John’s baptism
Holy Spirit baptism. Mark 1:8
Baptism of suffering. Like 12:50
Baptism of fire. Matt. 3:11 this is eternal punishment—hell. You don’t want this baptism. Read the context.

The one baptism in Eph. 4 is the only one that
Saves. It is water Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:38 and it is for the remission of sins. You receive the “gift” of the Holy Spirit when you are baptized with this baptism.

The Samaritans believed and were baptized as Jesus said in Mark 16:16 (verse 12) and thus were saved, but did not receive the Holy Spirit’ until Peter and John came from Jerusalem and prayed that they might get the Holy Spirit “FOR AS YET HE HAD FALLEN ON NONE OF THEM!” (Verses 15-16).

This is proof that Holy Spirit baptism is not for the purpose of “saving people.” This period of time was BEFORE THEY HAD THE WRITTEN REVEALED WORD OF GOD TO GUIDE THEM. They needed inspired men to teach them and guide them until the “perfect” word of God was in book form and in the hands of all the people. 1 Cor. 13. The Holy Spirit at this time gave some the “gift” of prophecy and some the “gift” of revelation— they needed this to guide them in the way of truth until the word of God was written down. You can read about the Spirit’s “gifts” in 1 Cor. 14. These things were to CEASE-1 Cor. 13. They were not permanent. The Bible never says that the miraculous out pouring of the Holy Spirit saves people. That was never its purpose.
 

Beckworth

Well-known member
May 15, 2019
813
335
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#25
There is more to “believing” than just mental assent. As James 2 suggests, belief must ACT in order to save people. Jesus puts it in the most basic and simplistic form—“He that believes AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED. Faith only or alone is condemned in James 2:24.

InnActs 16:34 the Holy Spirit says that the jailer “Rejoiced, having BELIEVED IN GOD…”. What does the scripture say he did? Just believe only? No. He also repented ( washed their stripes) and WAS BAPTIZED. Isn’t this what Jesus says will save a person back in Mark 16:16? Jesus clearly put salvation AFTER baptism—not before baptism. Now look, the idea that salvation comes BEFORE baptism is the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught in the Bible. Do you really want to take a stand against Jesus? It can’t be both ways. On the day of judgement, I certainly do not want to be found standing in opposition to what Jesus said—on ANYTHING! Please consider, eternity in hell is not worth defending a false teaching.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#26
There is more to “believing” than just mental assent.
Here is an example of mental assent belief - "I believe that Jesus exists, is the Son of God and that His death, burial and resurrection "happened." Believing in Jesus/in His name goes beyond mental assent belief and also includes trust and reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. I am trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. That goes beyond mere mental assent belief and is believing from the heart. Do you understand the difference?

As James 2 suggests, belief must ACT in order to save people.
That is not what James said. James is not advocating salvation by works in contradiction to Paul. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple! James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

Jesus puts it in the most basic and simplistic form—“He that believes AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED.
Jesus clarifies the first clause with the second, "but he who does not believe will be condemned" so the first clause describes general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. If he who believes will be saved, then he who believes and is baptized will be saved as well, yet nowhere did Jesus say that whoever is not baptized will be condemned.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Faith only or alone is condemned in James 2:24.
Faith only or alone per James 2:24 equates to an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone/barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith which is not to be confused with faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation/God imputes righteousness apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6)

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) James 2:24 is a major stumbling block for works-salvationists.

In Acts 16:34 the Holy Spirit says that the jailer “Rejoiced, having BELIEVED IN GOD…”. What does the scripture say he did? Just believe only? No. He also repented (washed their stripes) and WAS BAPTIZED.
More eisegesis on your part. In Acts 16:31, Paul clearly stated: BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. Not believe and get baptized and you will be saved. So, what is the only requirement in Acts 16:31? Just deal with it and stop trying to twist the scriptures.

Isn’t this what Jesus says will save a person back in Mark 16:16? Jesus clearly put salvation AFTER baptism—not before baptism.
According to your eisegesis but not according to (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) You need to stop boasting in your baptism and believe in Jesus/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

Now look, the idea that salvation comes BEFORE baptism is the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught in the Bible. Do you really want to take a stand against Jesus? It can’t be both ways. On the day of judgement, I certainly do not want to be found standing in opposition to what Jesus said—on ANYTHING! Please consider, eternity in hell is not worth defending a false teaching.
Are you condemning believers who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and are not trusting in water baptism for salvation? You seem to have more faith in water baptism to save you than you do in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ to save you, which is disturbing! Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ alone for salvation or else we are 100% lost. (John 3:18; 6:40; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) ✝️
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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New Zealand
#27
Remember also.. a mute can't verbally express what is in the likes of Romans 10.. as well as other disabled folk.

So it is an inward thing. Confession I believe isn't the saving point..but the belief. Of course, you can inwardly confess.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#28
There is more to “believing” than just mental assent. As James 2 suggests, belief must ACT in order to save people. Jesus puts it in the most basic and simplistic form—“He that believes AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED. Faith only or alone is condemned in James 2:24.

InnActs 16:34 the Holy Spirit says that the jailer “Rejoiced, having BELIEVED IN GOD…”. What does the scripture say he did? Just believe only? No. He also repented ( washed their stripes) and WAS BAPTIZED. Isn’t this what Jesus says will save a person back in Mark 16:16? Jesus clearly put salvation AFTER baptism—not before baptism. Now look, the idea that salvation comes BEFORE baptism is the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught in the Bible. Do you really want to take a stand against Jesus? It can’t be both ways. On the day of judgement, I certainly do not want to be found standing in opposition to what Jesus said—on ANYTHING! Please consider, eternity in hell is not worth defending a false teaching.
amen . The thing is we’re supposed to listen to the gospel and believe what we hear. Of we do this we will learn from the lord and grow in our capacity to indersrsnd and act because he teaches us in the gospel what your saying there in teachings like this one where James learned it

““Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a wise man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s that some interpret faith as a replacement for obeying what God said when in reality faith is when you hear what he said , believe him and then act upon what you believe…..like “ whoever believes the gospel and is baptized shall be saved “

its not faith if we then reply “ I have faith I dont need to believe the gospel and be baptized im saved already “ it’s faith when we hear it and get baptized believing it
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,317
1,199
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New Zealand
#29
There is more to “believing” than just mental assent. As James 2 suggests, belief must ACT in order to save people. Jesus puts it in the most basic and simplistic form—“He that believes AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED. Faith only or alone is condemned in James 2:24.

InnActs 16:34 the Holy Spirit says that the jailer “Rejoiced, having BELIEVED IN GOD…”. What does the scripture say he did? Just believe only? No. He also repented ( washed their stripes) and WAS BAPTIZED. Isn’t this what Jesus says will save a person back in Mark 16:16? Jesus clearly put salvation AFTER baptism—not before baptism. Now look, the idea that salvation comes BEFORE baptism is the OPPOSITE of what Jesus taught in the Bible. Do you really want to take a stand against Jesus? It can’t be both ways. On the day of judgement, I certainly do not want to be found standing in opposition to what Jesus said—on ANYTHING! Please consider, eternity in hell is not worth defending a false teaching.
James uses examples of people using their faith for the profit of others. Compare it with Hebrews 11.

They already have salvation and are using their faith to profit others.

So James 2 isnt saying you HAVE to work..but not using your faith to help others makes it unfruitful/useless. Dead in terms of lifeless..not actually lost salvation or never had salvation.

Salvation isn't the subject.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#30
The one baptism in Eph. 4 is the only one that Saves. It is water Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
False. There is only one baptism that saves and places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation (see Romans 1:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) —having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
17,205
693
113
#31
Remember also.. a mute can't verbally express what is in the likes of Romans 10.. as well as other disabled folk.

So it is an inward thing. Confession I believe isn't the saving point..but the belief. Of course, you can inwardly confess.
The mysterious ways of God. amazing man still trying to figure it all out and excuse and accuse of others not in belief or are in belief
God knows as said in Romans 8, I see to be accountable to me, thanks
  1. Romans 8:11
    But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Romans 8:13
    For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Romans 8:14
    For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. Romans 8:15
    For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. Romans 8:16
    The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
3,047
692
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#32
Actually, there are 5 baptisms mentioned in the New Testament.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Acts2:38
John’s baptism
Holy Spirit baptism. Mark 1:8
Baptism of suffering. Like 12:50
Baptism of fire. Matt. 3:11 this is eternal punishment—hell. You don’t want this baptism. Read the context.

The one baptism in Eph. 4 is the only one that
Saves. It is water Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:38 and it is for the remission of sins. You receive the “gift” of the Holy Spirit when you are baptized with this baptism.

The Samaritans believed and were baptized as Jesus said in Mark 16:16 (verse 12) and thus were saved, but did not receive the Holy Spirit’ until Peter and John came from Jerusalem and prayed that they might get the Holy Spirit “FOR AS YET HE HAD FALLEN ON NONE OF THEM!” (Verses 15-16).

This is proof that Holy Spirit baptism is not for the purpose of “saving people.” This period of time was BEFORE THEY HAD THE WRITTEN REVEALED WORD OF GOD TO GUIDE THEM. They needed inspired men to teach them and guide them until the “perfect” word of God was in book form and in the hands of all the people. 1 Cor. 13. The Holy Spirit at this time gave some the “gift” of prophecy and some the “gift” of revelation— they needed this to guide them in the way of truth until the word of God was written down. You can read about the Spirit’s “gifts” in 1 Cor. 14. These things were to CEASE-1 Cor. 13. They were not permanent. The Bible never says that the miraculous out pouring of the Holy Spirit saves people. That was never its purpose.
Assuming you agree with Paul regarding physical circumcision NOT being salvific, why would you turn right around and think he taught that physical baptism IS salvific?

I guess your misconstruing EPH 4:5 is because of ignoring/omitting/forgetting 1CR 12:13.
 

Beckworth

Well-known member
May 15, 2019
813
335
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#33
Romans 10:9 KJV

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

This is what it takes to be saved. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, i.e. talk about him (not to put it exactly - with all humbleness), and believe that God raised him from the dead (in your heart), thou shalt be saved. To put it into other words if you are doing such a thing and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. But all you really need to do is to believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.


Salvation is not found in just 1 verse. There are many scriptures that talk about salvation. You even have different answers to the same question, “what must I do to be saved?” When the jailer asked that question in Acts 16, he was told to believe. But when the Jews asked that question in Acts 2:38, Peter did not even mention “faith.” He said “repent and be baptized.” two different answers to the same question. Which one are you going to believe? Does the Bible contradict itself?

Here’s the thing. IF, Acts 16:30 proves that baptism is not necessary for salvation, because it is not mentioned in verse 30, then Acts 2:38 proves “faith” is not necessary to salvation because it is not in Peter’s answer. Foolishness!

Did Peter and Paul teach two different doctrines? Their answers to the same question are nothing alike. Do they contradict each other? It would seem so. So what is the answer? How do you reconcile these two conflicting verses—Acts 16:30 and Acts 2:38. Re-defining words and talking about “intent” in its meaning is subjective and not proof; Only human reasoning and trying to “GET AROUND” what the Holy Spirit actually says.

I am a firm believer in letting the Bible explain the Bible, whenever possible. The Bible will usually provide the answer if we are willing to look for it and accept what it says. And I believe it has given us the answer in Psalms 119:160. It’s says ALL of God’s word I’s TRUTH. That means that not only is Acts 16:30 true, but also, Acts 2:38 is true. Both are TRUE. How can both statements be true? The American Standard version of that verse says we are to take the “SUM” of what God has said. That means add it all together. Since the word “only” or “alone” is NOT in either of those answers (verses), then we add all of what the Holy Spirit says in BOTH PASSAGES and we get:
THE QUESTION: What must we do to be saved?
THE ANSWER:
“Believe,” Acts 16:30. AND (adding it all together). “Repent, and “be baptized…” Acts 2:38. BELIEVE. Acts 16:30
REPENT
+ BAPTISM. Acts 2:38
______________
SUM = TrRUTH. Psalms 119:160

Now we have the “sum” of what GOd has said and we have the TRUTH, Psalns 119:160.
Just like in Math, there are ways to “check” your answer. Check the above paragraph with what Jesus says in mark 16:16- “He that BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED shall be SAVED.” Yep. That is the right answer.

BELIEF + BAPTISM = SALVATION. (Jesus) Mark
1. +. 1. =. 2

BELIEF - BAPTISM = SALVATION
1. - 1. =. 2. WRONG! X

BELIEF. =. Salvation - BAPTISM. WRONG. X

Eternity in hell is not worth defending a false doctrine.
 
Nov 1, 2024
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#34
Assuming you agree with Paul regarding physical circumcision NOT being salvific, why would you turn right around and think he taught that physical baptism IS salvific?
Two different covenants. Under the old covenant any uncircumcised male was cut off from Israel and from the promises of God. But under the new covenant physical circumcision is meaningless in matters pertaining to God
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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#35
also if I confess that Jesus is my Lord there’s an understanding that comes with the term “Lord “

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Just repeating.

"Christ" also requires the same understanding. Paul referenced Psalm2 in evangelizing. Psalm2 tells us YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ is YHWH's King who inherits all the earth - the King over all kings - and to kiss the Son lest He be angry.

Simple really...That's who He is...Do what He says. This is Faith.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,627
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#36
False. There is only one baptism that saves and places us into the body of Christ and that is Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37-39 for the word drink(s) and see the connection with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation (see Romans 1:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) —having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise.

Ephesians 4:5-6
:)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
15,100
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#37
Just repeating.

"Christ" also requires the same understanding. Paul referenced Psalm2 in evangelizing. Psalm2 tells us YHWH's Anointed/Messiah/Christ is YHWH's King who inherits all the earth - the King over all kings - and to kiss the Son lest He be angry.

Simple really...That's who He is...Do what He says. This is Faith.
Agreed. Well said

“Simple really...That's who He is...Do what He says. This is ( the operation of ) Faith”
 

GWH

Groovy
Oct 19, 2024
3,047
692
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#38
Two different covenants. Under the old covenant any uncircumcised male was cut off from Israel and from the promises of God. But under the new covenant physical circumcision is meaningless in matters pertaining to God
Q: Assuming you agree with Paul regarding physical circumcision NOT being salvific, why would you turn right around and think he taught that physical baptism IS salvific?

A: Under the new covenant physical circumcision is meaningless in matters pertaining to God.

Do you think that answers the question? I see no reference to baptism.

What I DO see is that the answer restates what was said/meant in the preamble to the question.

Do you want to try again or what?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Two different covenants. Under the old covenant any uncircumcised male was cut off from Israel and from the promises of God. But under the new covenant physicalcircumcision is meaningless in matters pertaining to God
“circumcision is meaningless in matters pertaining to God”

its actually not meaningless

“Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ;

you have fallen away from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:2-4‬ ‭
 
Nov 1, 2024
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Q: Assuming you agree with Paul regarding physical circumcision NOT being salvific, why would you turn right around and think he taught that physical baptism IS salvific?

A: Under the new covenant physical circumcision is meaningless in matters pertaining to God.

Do you think that answers the question? I see no reference to baptism.

What I DO see is that the answer restates what was said/meant in the preamble to the question.

Do you want to try again or what?
When you make yourself clearer I'll try again