Bible verses that help us understand the rapture

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ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#61
I just call it the Resurrection as Christ and the Apostles referred to throughout the new testament. The harpazo to me is part of the Resurrection.

It's not.

The resurrected are not raptured.

The raptured are not resurrected.

Or, in other words:

Only the dead are resurrected.

Only the living are raptured.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#62
I am referring to the word Harpazo which means to be snatched out of certain death/danger.

It doesn't mean that. No Greek dictionary supports that.
 

Artios1

Born again to serve
Dec 11, 2020
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#64
Are you saying tribulation of Christians does not take place prior to the last seven years? How do you explain what happened to Paul and all the apostles? How about Christians who were placed on a pike and lit on fire as human torches, that doesn't qualify as tribulation? Christians have had churches burned, pastors imprisoned, thousands, perhaps millions have been martyred over the last two thousand years and that is not tribulation?

Where is the Biblical support to say that Christians do not experience tribulation except for the last seven years of the age?

You are absolutely right regarding tribulation throughout the ages. Within the Church epistles Paul does denote times of tribulation and persecution for Christians …with the caveat that….. in all these things we are or can be …. more than conquers…..That is the persecution and tribulation we will be subject to when standing and proclaiming the truth…

I don’t know what the 7 years you are referring to….. if it’s the 3 ½ and 3 ½… I would say yes, I am referring to that time period ….but I am not referring to “Christians” in that time period as there will be no Christians left on the earth ….There will be believers who are persecuted ….but the Christians (by definition) will have already skedaddled when Christ returns for the Church of God (Body of Christ).

As for tribulation: The distinction I make between the two is noted ….by when Jesus in Mat 24:21 called it the “great tribulation” and subsequent verses are delineated with THE article (within its respective context)

Great TribulationMat 24:21, Rev 2:22, Rev 7:14.

Delineated Tribulation (thlipsis) with the article → Mat 24:29, Mar 13:24, Mar 13:19 →(thlipsis is translated affliction), 2Th 1:6, Rev 1:9, Rev 2:9 …..Most of these (at least in the KJV) have not incorporated the article from Greek to English… but it is in the Greek.

Why the article is important:

Whenever the Greek uses the article, it points out individual identity…. it marks a specific object of thought. Its function is to point out an object or draw attention to it. It's use with a word makes the word stand out distinctly.

The Greeks use the article with infinitives, adjectives, adverbs, prepositional phrases, and clauses,…. or even with whole sentences…. we do not have a corresponding English word even remotely similar. …It always signals some special significance.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#65
It doesn't mean that. No Greek dictionary supports that.
Yes, it does.

Strong's definition -- ἁρπάζω harpázō, har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications):—catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

Outline of Biblical usage

  1. to seize, carry off by force
  2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
  3. to snatch out or away

Vine's Expository Dictionary

Catch:

"to snatch or catch away," is said of the act of the Spirit of the Lord in regard to Philip in Act 8:39; of Paul in being "caught" up to Paradise, 2Cr 12:2, 4; of the Rapture of the saints at the return of the Lord, 1Th 4:17; of the rapture of the man child in the vision of Rev 12:5. This verb conveys the idea of force suddenly exercised, as in Mat 11:12, "take (it) by force;" Mat 12:29, "spoil" (some mss. have diarpazo here); in Mat 13:19, RV, "snatcheth;" for forceful seizure, see also Jhn 6:15; 10:12, 28, 29; Act 23:10; in Jud 1:23, RV, "snatching."
See PLUCK, PULL, SNATCH, TAKE (by force).
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#67
It's not.

The resurrected are not raptured.

The raptured are not resurrected.

Or, in other words:

Only the dead are resurrected.

Only the living are raptured.
“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,

some to everlasting life,

and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:25, 28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:

1 for the trumpet shall sound,

2 and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,

3 and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:49-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

2 and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

3 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

First the dead are raised up

then The still living are changed in a “twinkling of an eye “

then Both groups are caught up together as one with the lord forever

Remember

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭

“Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:50-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? it is sown a natural body; ( for earth ) it is raised a spiritual body. ( for heaven ) There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, ( on earth )

we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. ( in heaven )

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 44, 49-51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what dies isnt gong to be what is raised up what died is like the seed , what is raised is like the plant when we die we should know that concept we’re going to be more afterwards not less

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35-37, 40‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be:

but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We aren’t just going to be raised back up like we are now temporal , earthly , always dying and waiting to die …..we’re being raised up for eternal life in the kingdom of God !!!
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#68
No, none included "out of certain death/danger".
Revelation 12 describes a child being caught up as a dragon is waiting, trying to devour the child.

Isaiah 26 describes being hidden in a chamber while the indignation of God passes.

In the context of verses about the rapture you get the context that we are "snatched out" of a situation that would have been certain death.

For example, one shadow of the rapture is Samson pushing out the two pillars. The gematria of pillars in the OT is the same as the church, Paul says the church is the pillar and base of the truth. Samson, the strong man removes the church at the same time the temple collapses killing everyone worshipping there.

Israel calls the nuclear option the "Samson option" where he pushes out the pillars saying "let me die with the Philistines". Isaiah 17:1 may be the prophecy that corresponds with the Methuselah prophecy. At the time of Noah the Methuselah prophecy said that when Methuselah dies the end will come. He died when Noah and his family entered the ark. The oldest man to live on earth. Meanwhile Isaiah 17 says that Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city on earth, will become a ruinous heap.

Jesus said it would be as the days of Noah and the days of Lot. They entered the ark, the door was shut and the flood came and killed them all. With Lot you have the same picture. He leaves the city and it is destroyed by fire.

Then Jesus says that those who are left behind are left in "outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

These all give a picture that we are not simply caught up, but as we go up, destruction, darkness, weeping, and gnashing of teeth are left behind.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#69
If we are going to understand the rapture, this chapter is central

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

There is an assumption by many Bible teachers that "after this" refers to "after the church age". They support this by saying the church is not mentioned again until the end of the book. That would be consistent with this interpretation, but should not be confused with proof. However, "come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter" is certainly evidence that this is referring to what takes place after the church age. Again, we should be careful about jumping to conclusions, because from this point on we do see things that happen hereafter, but hereafter what? This chapter gives us the "starting point".
I agree that John is witnessing the Rapture here, which precedes his description of the Tribulation.

Another key to understanding the Rapture can be found in John 14...

John 14:3
“And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

This reveals our destination upon being raptured. It shows us going up to the Bridal Chamber which is prepared for us in Heaven. The Second Coming (later) shows us Coming back down from Heaven. Many think we will spending eternity "way out there somewhere." The truth is that we will only be spending 7 years in 3rd Heaven. (But plenty of time for that heavenly wedding.)

Our Heavenly wedding and return to Earth is fully delineated in Revelation 19.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#70
Revelation 12 describes a child being caught up as a dragon is waiting, trying to devour the child.

Still is not part of the definition as was claimed. It can be a rapture from danger or can be a rapture just to move people who are not in danger.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#71
We aren’t just going to be raised back up like we are now temporal , earthly , always dying and waiting to die …..we’re being raised up for eternal life in the kingdom of God !!!

Never confuse the rapture for the resurrection. They are two very different things.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#72
Revelation 12 describes a child being caught up as a dragon is waiting, trying to devour the child.

Isaiah 26 describes being hidden in a chamber while the indignation of God passes.

In the context of verses about the rapture you get the context that we are "snatched out" of a situation that would have been certain death.
Revelation 12 is an interlude which steps back and looks at Satan, The Nation of Israel, Christ, and the final Deliverance of Israel at the end of the Tribulation.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#73
John 5:

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

In verse 25, the word 'dead' and the word 'live' are referring to the 'spiritual' condition - the word 'hear' is referring to 'spiritual' understanding - "answering the call to belief and faith" - this verse is talking about 'spiritual' salvation.

In verse 28, it is referring to 'physical' resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1) The dead in Christ are resurrected-and-changed (made incorruptible) as/while those which are alive and remain are changed (made incorruptible).

2) All who have been made incorruptible are "caught up" together to meet the Lord in the air.

The Corinthians verses are talking about living-and-dead being changed together while the Thessalonians verses are talking about the living-and-dead being caught up together.

All are changed together. Then, all are caught up together.

One 'resurrection'. One 'change'. One 'rapture'.

Do not conflate or confuse these three things. They are separate things which happen together at one 'event' - when Christ appears.

The dead in Christ are "resurrected" when Christ appears - but, the 'spiritually' dead are [also] "resurrected" before Judgment Day.

The 'change' is for the redeemed when Christ appears - both the resurrected saints and the remaining saints - together.

The 'rapture' is for all who meet the Lord in the air - both the resurrected saints and the remaining saints - together.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#74
Never confuse the rapture for the resurrection. They are two very different things.
Why not simply call it the Resurrection/Rapture (which I have been doing all along)? Both are part of the same great event, even though different. One for those who have passed on, and one for those alive at the coming of Christ.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#75
This is what we will see prior to the rapture

Jeremiah 13:12 Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?

13 Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.

14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

It is amazing, everyone binge watches TV, or is sucked in by professional sports, or is drunken on the worldly wine in one way or another. Just look at all these people glued to their phones, glued to Youtube, glued to Facebook, glued to video games.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Everyone is an expert on Matthew 24, how many quote the conclusion?
 

achduke7

Active member
Oct 3, 2023
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#76
It's not.

The resurrected are not raptured.

The raptured are not resurrected.

Or, in other words:

Only the dead are resurrected.

Only the living are raptured.

That is not what Paul showed in 1 Cor 15:50-54 They are both changed into new bodies. This is part of the resurrection. Christ also received a new body at his resurrection.

1 Cor 15:50-54 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


In order to enter the Kingdom of God we need new bodies.

Lets look at an example from Revelation.

Dead in Christ -> Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Resurrection -> Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Harpazo/Rapture -> Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#77
That is not what Paul showed in 1 Cor 15:50-54 They are both changed into new bodies. This is part of the resurrection.
No, the resurrection is FIRST, then the living are changed into immortals then raptured. The resurrection is over before the rapture happens.



Lets look at an example from Revelation.

Dead in Christ -> Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Resurrection -> Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Harpazo/Rapture -> Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

The resurrection is a separate event and is completed before a rapture happens. With the rapture of the living, there is no resurrection involved because they didn't die.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#78
This is what we will see prior to the rapture

Jeremiah 13:12 Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?

13 Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.

14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

It is amazing, everyone binge watches TV, or is sucked in by professional sports, or is drunken on the worldly wine in one way or another. Just look at all these people glued to their phones, glued to Youtube, glued to Facebook, glued to video games.

Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Everyone is an expert on Matthew 24, how many quote the conclusion?

There are no chapters in the manuscripts so that isn't a conclusion. The OD continues past that with more stories and parables of what the second coming will be like.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#79
Why not simply call it the Resurrection/Rapture (which I have been doing all along)?

This is why:

The resurrected are not raptured.

The raptured are not resurrected.

Or, in other words:

Only the dead are resurrected.

Only the living are raptured.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#80
The 'rapture' is for all who meet the Lord in the air - both the resurrected saints and the remaining saints - together.

Only the living are raptured. The dead come with Christ to the clouds which is not the rapture and happens BEFORE the rapture takes place.

1Th_4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.