Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#42
You seem to have missed the point of what Jesus was saying to Nicodemus. It was not about tongues (of any kind). Jesus simply compared the wind with the Holy Spirit.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

In both Hebrew and Greek, the word for spirit can also be applied to wind or breath. And both the wind and the Holy Spirit are invisible, but their effects are discernible. One can hear the wind, and one can see lives changed through the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. But it has nothing to do with tongues.

Did Paul begin to speak in tongues after he received the Holy Spirit, or did he become a bold preacher of the Gospel after having been a persecutor of Christians?

ACTS 9 (NO TONGUES JUST THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL)
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.
First you mention John 3:8, wherein it is stated one hears the sound of invisible wind and such is everyone born of the Spirit. But rather than accept the scriptures literal meaning, that when one is born of the Spirit there will be an accompanying sound, you give your interpretation that one can see "lives changed." Your interpretation is not consistent with what is stated.

The scripture you quote in Acts 9 does not specify that Paul spoke in tongues but does state he was filled with the Holy Ghost. How can one know what occurs when someone is filled with the Holy Ghost? Study All scriptures that pertain to receiving the Holy Ghost. In addition to the literal record stated by Jesus in John 3:8, the concept is firmly established by at least 3 other recorded scriptures (Acts 2:1-4, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) and implied by a fourth. (Acts 8:12-18) Also, researching further one will find that Paul himself said he spoke in tongues. (1 Cor 14:18)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#43
people think they're speaking a real, rational language rather than something entirely self-created -
You say, self created, God's word states otherwise:

"And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:3-4

People should choose to believe God's word.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
9,432
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#44
You are somebody who can interpret tongues!!? Fantastic!

Can you please interpret these tongues?

PennEd, you do have a knack for finding informative videos.....again very disturbing.:(
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#45
Wow. Look what the bible says happens when one is filled with the Holy Ghost:

"And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:2-4
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,978
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#46
The scripture you quote in Acts 9 does not specify that Paul spoke in tongues but does state he was filled with the Holy Ghost. How can one know what occurs when someone is filled with the Holy Ghost? Study All scriptures that pertain to receiving the Holy Ghost.
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb. Did he ever speak in tongues? NEVER

Jesus of Nazareth was filled with the Holy Spirit from His mother's womb, and then constantly and continuously. Did He ever speak in tongues? NEVER

So there is the clearest evidence that speaking in tongues has nothing to do with being filled with the Spirit. It is the least of the spiritual gifts, therefore Paul would have rather spoken 5 intelligible words of prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues. In any event, tongues would cease, and they did cease.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,297
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#49
Wow. Look what the bible says happens when one is filled with the Holy Ghost:

"And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:2-4
This was only one time in the bible. When the Holy Spirit came for Jesus into this world. As Jesus said.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#50
You are somebody who can interpret tongues!!? Fantastic!

Can you please interpret these tongues?

I can interpret these tongues easily. That man is saying "IAMABLASPHEMER".
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#51
John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb. Did he ever speak in tongues? NEVER

Jesus of Nazareth was filled with the Holy Spirit from His mother's womb, and then constantly and continuously. Did He ever speak in tongues? NEVER

So there is the clearest evidence that speaking in tongues has nothing to do with being filled with the Spirit. It is the least of the spiritual gifts, therefore Paul would have rather spoken 5 intelligible words of prophecy than 10,000 words in tongues. In any event, tongues would cease, and they did cease.
The scriptures I provided speak to the error in your understanding. But rather than address that you change the subject so I will comment on the points you bring up that have nothing to do with the NT rebirth.

The NT rebirth includes the infilling of the Holy Ghost as witnessed by the events on and after Pentecost. John the Baptist died long before the rebirth was initiated. And Jesus' death, burial and resurrection ushered in the NT rebirth experience:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

In addition, the NT rebirth experience of receiving the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues has nothing to do with operating in the Spiritual gift of tongues that Paul was referring to.

Spiritual gifts will cease when Jesus returns. God's uses His Spirit to flow through willing believers to impact and draw others to make a choice to serve Jesus. When Jesus returns the time to choose will have ended. There will no longer be a need for a word of wisdom or knowledge, a healing, a miracle, a prophecy, discerning of spirits, speaking or interpreting of tongues.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#52
This was only one time in the bible. When the Holy Spirit came for Jesus into this world. As Jesus said.
I agree that it is the first time that the Holy Ghost was poured into people. However, we see it happening again in these scripture verses: Acts 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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#53
John
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#54
PennEd, you do have a knack for finding informative videos.....again very disturbing.:(
Most importantly, keep in mind that an imitation is not proof that the real thing does not exist. The bible must be our first source for instruction and understanding. (1 Cor 12)
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
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Texas
#55
interesting but baloney

actually, the real burr under the saddle, the one that makes the good horse buck, consists of, for the most part, RUMORS

I do not know how many times I have read this posted by cessationists with no reference as to who is supposed to have posted it

on the other hand, I have seen this claim REFUTED many times and I know I have refuted it myself

so here it is being said again. it is basically a false claim around this site. there probably are people who think and believe this, but in this forum, it would be a rare thing to find

it is beyond tiresome that people continue to post that this is what is being said by those who do speak in tongues

you have taken it a step further by using what I find to be pretty offensive adjectives ... see highlighted above in your quote

you cannot sling words around like arrows in your attempt to 'prove' how much you love God because the effect it has, is that it could occasion the thought that those who speak in tongues are a bunch of judgmental hypocrites

a post like the one I quoted here, is not peace seeking and it is not truthful

sounds like you may think people who speak in tongues do NOT seek God with all their heart

if that is not what you meant to say, it is not to late to correct that impression
I'm gonna try to answer point for point here if I can with out doing the quote for quote thing as I am doing this from my phone and that can become quite difficult.

First off, I am not a cessationist, therefore I will also answer the last point with the first. My affirmation of those (some not all) who do not speak in tongues as sincere and true worshippers of God, emphatically does not exclude those that do speak in tongues from being sincere and true worshippers of God. There most certainly are indeed many in both camps that are sincere lovers of the Lord and true worshippers.

I have indeed seen on this forum (not necessarily in this thread) that it was the case made that if one is truly saved the same speaks in tongues as a requirement. However I am not going to go back through all this forum and site references, (it's not that important to me). So I guess then it is hear say and thusly inadmissible. That said, I do believe that it is the implicit connotation of the original post of this thread.

I with few exception do not; speak in terms of all or none. Therefore it is not implied that I find all of those who speak in tongues to be hypocritical. There are certainly no more or less hypocritical people in either camp. Both have their fair share of hypocrites and true worshippers.

I don't know what adjectives that I used that are offensive, so I sincerely can not answer that.

I hope this clears everything up.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
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#56
Most importantly, keep in mind that an imitation is not proof that the real thing does not exist. The bible must be our first source for instruction and understanding. (1 Cor 12)
Agree, 1 Cor is about languages, so if it does not meet the criteria for a language it is not a language.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,573
3,164
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#57
I'm gonna try to answer point for point here if I can with out doing the quote for quote thing as I am doing this from my phone and that can become quite difficult.

First off, I am not a cessationist, therefore I will also answer the last point with the first. My affirmation of those (some not all) who do not speak in tongues as sincere and true worshippers of God, emphatically does not exclude those that do speak in tongues from being sincere and true worshippers of God. There most certainly are indeed many in both camps that are sincere lovers of the Lord and true worshippers.

I have indeed seen on this forum (not necessarily in this thread) that it was the case made that if one is truly saved the same speaks in tongues as a requirement. However I am not going to go back through all this forum and site references, (it's not that important to me). So I guess then it is hear say and thusly inadmissible. That said, I do believe that it is the implicit connotation of the original post of this thread.

I with few exception do not; speak in terms of all or none. Therefore it is not implied that I find all of those who speak in tongues to be hypocritical. There are certainly no more or less hypocritical people in either camp. Both have their fair share of hypocrites and true worshippers.

I don't know what adjectives that I used that are offensive, so I sincerely can not answer that.

I hope this clears everything up.
sorry. this does not work for me at all

people need...yes NEED...to stop...STOP saying those who speak in tongues believe that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

that has become a device used diligently by those who want to grab a hold of something to use as proof that those who speak in tongues are all wrong

I don't care about hypocrites in the camp. the tents are full.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#58
Agree, 1 Cor is about languages, so if it does not meet the criteria for a language it is not a language.
Paul makes it clear that those speaking in an unknown tongue are doing so through the operation of the spirit. Their spirit is conversing with God:
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1 Cor 14:2

Paul also says that when he prays in an unknown tongue his understanding is unfruitful. If he is speaking a language he knows why would he not understand what he is saying?:
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1 Cor 14:14

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, 1 Cor 14:18-19

If what you are expressing is that Paul is referring to people speaking known languages, just not languages known to the individual, that could be possible. But would not change the fact that it is being done supernaturally through the operation of the Spirit.

If this is the case, it would be impossible to ascertain if one's speaking in tongues were authentic or not. It would be virtually impossible when one considers that according to sources on the Internet "there are roughly 6,500 spoken languages in the world today. However, about 2,000 of those languages have fewer than 1,000 speakers."

If unknown tongues are current and past languages spoken throughout the world God certainly has a variety to choose from to impart edification to His church.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
1,227
792
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Texas
#59
sorry. this does not work for me at all

people need...yes NEED...to stop...STOP saying those who speak in tongues believe that if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved

that has become a device used diligently by those who want to grab a hold of something to use as proof that those who speak in tongues are all wrong

I don't care about hypocrites in the camp. the tents are full.
The op of this thread does indeed imply by connotation that if one is saved he will speak in tongues.
Those that say it never say it explicitly they only say it implicitly.

And that in no way implies that everyone who speaks in tongues also believes the same thing.

And also in no way implies that you have done or said anything of the sort.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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#60
The op of this thread does indeed imply by connotation that if one is saved he will speak in tongues.
Those that say it never say it explicitly they only say it implicitly.

And that in no way implies that everyone who speaks in tongues also believes the same thing.

And also in no way implies that you have done or said anything of the sort.

really?

I didn't see that at all. he seemed to say that you will have power as described in scripture

I don't even agree with all the wording. but I think you are seeing what is not there

I don't find the op worded well, but it seems to me he was basically trying to say many do not follow the NT examples

I don't find anything wrong in that statement if that is what was being said

well, your implicit is not everyone's implicit ;)