Born Again Speaking in Tongues

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
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Holy Spirit baptism is that anointing that comes from within and UPON the believer. The anointing gives the Word from God to men or actions through the power of God to touch in whatever way He chooses.

The one ministering knows the power is not of self. Nor the actions. Others recognize God is at work.

There is the Spirit of Christ that life’s our spirit with the gospel of Jesus. The new birth. The power of the blood.

This is what I grew up hearing and I would guess most of us were the same.

It was God Himself that baptized me in Holy Spirit at an evangelistic conference called Explo ‘72 in Dallas, by the Billy Graham and Bill Bright ministries. No Pentecostal teachings yet He baptized me at the invitation to receive Holy Spirit. I was already born again but knew nothing about Holy Spirit or gifts.

I am sure I wasn’t the only one but I didn’t hear of it.

It’s two experiences of the grace of God and the third may be about to happen. The fullness. Some are moving in this already, doing the greater works already.

Wake up sleepers..
Hello fire,

I, too have 2 very distinct encounters. The first, salvation through Yeshua/Jesus and the second, the Holy Spirit possessing me - so alive spiritually - discerning and knowing and understanding and so actively loving God, people and myself in such a pure state of mind and heart.

God is beautiful! There are 2 encounters to be experienced.

And like you said, possibly a third....

you call it the “fullness,” I call it the “Fire.” Which is perfect love - empowered with God’s Love - perfection!

I look forward to walking with God in His Fire.........
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
5,955
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It's amazing how such doctrines can truly mess up a genuine believers walk.
I fell foul of the above.

I used to go to an Anglican Church.
I wanted to be baptised, this denomination does it be sprinkling on the head.
Before they did that that you have to say out loud why.
They asked you questions and you answered.

This was my confession.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

A few years later I ended up in a Baptist Church.
That was the first time I heard tongues and to be honest it frightened me and I thought it was evil.

You don't hear tongues in an Anglican Church.

With regards baptism I was asked if I was. I said yes.
When they asked by immersion I said no.
Then I was told that was not baptism and I need to be fully immersed.
They did not say that I was not saved because I had not been.
But the fact is for me it negated my confession of faith that I had made.
The irony is that I had to make the same confession with full immersion as with a sprinkling.

That really messed with my mind, my first confession was irrelevant and therefore by inference I was not saved.

I went to a big Christian gathering of a few thousand people with this church.
I was struggling at the time.
I went forward for prayer.

The first question was "Do you speak in tongues?
I said no I do not.
I was then told "That's evidence you are not saved, and why you are struggling would you like to pray in tongues?

I said how can I do this.
They gave me the following to say (and this is true)

"She will come on a Honda"
Say it slowly and then start to speed it up.
Then they walked away, practice it at home then your mind will get used to it then you will get real tongues.

Boy did that cause me an issue for many many years.

For me with regards to tongues and baptism.

Neither save a person.

It's confession and belief that save and wanting to be like Jesus.
The remission of sins comes through the death and resurrection of Jesus and being United with him through the Holy Spirit.

Therefore I always encourage people who come to Jesus to be baptised.
The problem is that the church puts lots of pressure on people who want to be baptized that causes them to shrink back.

With regards to tongues.
Well I don't speak in tongues. I don't get it.
Is it relevant for today?

I have to be honest and say yes I think it is.
I don't speak in tongues yet my wife does.
She speaks tongues when we are praying for others, prays in tongues in church underneath her breath.

It's a gift, it's one that I do not have.
It's not a right of passage for evidence of salvation or a means to salvation.
I have gifts that I seek after and have.

Did Jesus ever speak in tongues?
Was he baptised to be saved?
Wow! Great post, BillG!

Man and his denominations really mess up God’s Truth.

Just keep asking Yeshua/Jesus for the Father.......all is made clear at the encounter with the Father.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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I said the scriptures aren’t complete in the book of Acts Roger. Try to look a bit closer. Plus I read this scripture as about the prophecy of the book of Revelation.

If you deny revelation of the scriptures, then you take away the offices of Prophet, Teacher, and the work of Holy Spirit. Even Pastor. Evangelism is soul winning, and Apostle should be church structure and order. All through our wonderful TEACHER, COUNSELOR, COMFORTER, GUIDE AND THE VERY SPIRIT OF FATHER HIMSELF.

Jesus finished all His work and has taken His position with Father in heaven. He has revealed Father to us through Himself. But, you can look at the words of the scriptures and get more truth from them through the work of Holy Spirit. This is His time of ministry on earth, to do what He’s assigned. Revealing the work of Jesus.


There is much to be seen through the OT about the sacrifices, and the very nation of Israel and their spiritual lives and acts to glean.

He is here and He makes Himself known when He is welcomed.

You can answer but I’m done with you.
Jesus is known by those who know Him as Savior. His Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are His. That is scriptural and no feelings or signs.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,527
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Jesus' question was directed to the Pharisees who refused to accept John's God-inspired message. Water baptism as well as the infilling of the Holy Ghost were both commands that came directly from heaven. The following scripture concerning Pharisees rejecting the counsel of God says it all:

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." Luke 7:29-30
The audience does not change the intended meaning of the passage. Given indeed to them but very much for our good too.
Scripture includes God-given instructions that all must follow. No one can discard scriptures just because they do not fit one's perception of the truth.
Then why do you continue to endeavor to change what God has said into something that suits your preferences?

We are not saved by doing but by believing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 14, 2011
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My leaders? No, I study here at home and the church that I attended most was word of faith church. Though we had the gifts, we were more into the Word.

Can’t say I’ve spent a lot of time in a Pentecostal church to be taught. Lester Sumralls when a young believer but I was watching what was going on more than listening.

I don’t know why we didn’t move in the gifts in the Word church.

I think you are confusing to read. But, I care for your heart that you show in loving Jesus.

First love is powerful too.
You did not learn that by just study, If you did, You would understand what the word batise means, and see this “baptism of the spirit” That you keep talking about is not what you think it is sis.

If I am confusing. Go find someone who is not who can really explain it to you. I care fo you also sis.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,342
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Theology?

You make this all about doctrine when it’s life in the Spirit.

Far from fluff my dear man.
You said a mouthfull there.
My last days banner is to start each day in more anointing.
Drink in the Spirit. Take the full anointing horn and guzzle that puppy down.
Feast on the Spirit.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
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Hello fire,

I, too have 2 very distinct encounters. The first, salvation through Yeshua/Jesus and the second, the Holy Spirit possessing me - so alive spiritually - discerning and knowing and understanding and so actively loving God, people and myself in such a pure state of mind and heart.

God is beautiful! There are 2 encounters to be experienced.

And like you said, possibly a third....

you call it the “fullness,” I call it the “Fire.” Which is perfect love - empowered with God’s Love - perfection!

I look forward to walking with God in His Fire.........
Flames of fire! Have you heard the phrase lafftur? Am not surprised you have this desire. 😉

That’s interesting about perfect fire being the fullness. There’s a couple on my Facebook that I would say this is what they move in now and miracles happen. I’ve never seen the love for God expressed in this powerful way of anointing before. If you would like their names let me know.

I see this as a personality thing though. Maybe it is, maybe not. Some are straightforward and direct in expression but it doesn’t mean their love is any less lafftur. Nor does it mean that they don’t love those they minister too.

When Jesus called some sons of vipers, was that love?

I see the fullness as the experience we call rapture. Am not so sure that air means heaven. But, I won’t teach something I’m not sure of. Am waiting.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
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You said a mouthfull there.
My last days banner is to start each day in more anointing.
Drink in the Spirit. Take the full anointing horn and guzzle that puppy down.
Feast on the Spirit.

Absolutely, I’m so glad you are here. 🥰
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
10,342
2,529
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Something just occurred to me.

Jesus asked the Pharisees what was Johns baptism. Of men or of God? I always wondered what He meant.

If it was a different baptism that was the sign of Messiah to come, then the question to them makes perfect sense.

I still need to know for certainty.
Johns baptism was unto "change"
To repent is to change direction.

Jesus baptised by John was nothing to do with a change from a wrong direction or repentance. But a change of priesthood.
John,a levitical priest by birth,handed the priesthood to a new tribe,the tribe of Judah.
The priesthood changed at the Jordan.
Jordan represents change.
John represents the old covenant.
John died as of necessity.
Jesus knew John would die.
It was ordained. Death,martyrdom,decapitation. The end of the old.
The new needed to proceed from the seed of death.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
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You did not learn that by just study, If you did, You would understand what the word batise means, and see this “baptism of the spirit” That you keep talking about is not what you think it is sis.

If I am confusing. Go find someone who is not who can really explain it to you. I care fo you also sis.

EG, I don’t teach another mans revelation of the Word. That’s what I mean. Of course we are built upon by what we hear, but I would forget it if others teachings was all I knew.

If what you wrote matched the scriptures then I could understand what you are saying.

You all say you believe the Word as written, but. If you did, would you all not desire that which you are reading?

That seems straightforward to me.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
Johns baptism was unto "change"
To repent is to change direction.

Jesus baptised by John was nothing to do with a change from a wrong direction or repentance. But a change of priesthood.
John,a levitical priest by birth,handed the priesthood to a new tribe,the tribe of Judah.
The priesthood changed at the Jordan.
Jordan represents change.
John represents the old covenant.
John died as of necessity.
Jesus knew John would die.
It was ordained. Death,martyrdom,decapitation. The end of the old.
The new needed to proceed from the seed of death.

My questioning is about the baptisms that the Jews had. I know they had many different washings for different purification’s. Was there a baptism of repentance and turning to God before his? Was thinking this was a sign they were looking for to fulfill the scripture of preparing for Messiah. Did they know?

If so, then I can understand the question Jesus asked of them. Of God or men. There would of been an uproar from the people if they answered it wasn’t from God.

Understand?
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
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EG, I don’t teach another mans revelation of the Word. That’s what I mean. Of course we are built upon by what we hear, but I would forget it if others teachings was all I knew.

If what you wrote matched the scriptures then I could understand what you are saying.
They not only match with scriptures. They match with the words used.

God did not take a word. Use it outside its normal meaning, That would make him the author of confusion. I do not think that is what he is.

You all say you believe the Word as written, but. If you did, would you all not desire that which you are reading?

That seems straightforward to me.
What I desire is to interpret the word using the words used. And use the definition of the words to get the interpretation. Not personal interpretation. Which has nothign to do with the way the word is used.

Again, Annoint is a word which means pour on or into

Baptize is a word which means to be immersed or place into.

The HS coming into us, where we get out gifting, is “Anoint”

The HS placing us into the death and burial of Christ where our sins are washed away is “baptize”

The gifts come from the anointing of the spirit, not the baptism.



 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
18,008
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My questioning is about the baptisms that the Jews had. I know they had many different washings for different purification’s. Was there a baptism of repentance and turning to God before his? Was thinking this was a sign they were looking for to fulfill the scripture of preparing for Messiah. Did they know?

If so, then I can understand the question Jesus asked of them. Of God or men. There would of been an uproar from the people if they answered it wasn’t from God.

Understand?
The point jesus was making was this

If they answered that God sent John to baptize. They would have to accept christ, Because John claimed Christ was the reason he came to baptize.

If they said of men, they would have had an uproar. Because most everyone believed John was a prophet of God.

So jesus asked them a question they could not answer, because no matter how they answered, it would have been bad for them
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
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The point jesus was making was this

If they answered that God sent John to baptize. They would have to accept christ, Because John claimed Christ was the reason he came to baptize.

If they said of men, they would have had an uproar. Because most everyone believed John was a prophet of God.

So jesus asked them a question they could not answer, because no matter how they answered, it would have been bad for them
Well, that makes sense. Thanks EG.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
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They not only match with scriptures. They match with the words used.

God did not take a word. Use it outside its normal meaning, That would make him the author of confusion. I do not think that is what he is.



What I desire is to interpret the word using the words used. And use the definition of the words to get the interpretation. Not personal interpretation. Which has nothign to do with the way the word is used.

Again, Annoint is a word which means pour on or into

Baptize is a word which means to be immersed or place into.

The HS coming into us, where we get out gifting, is “Anoint”

The HS placing us into the death and burial of Christ where our sins are washed away is “baptize”

The gifts come from the anointing of the spirit, not the baptism.



To study the English words and look at the meanings in the original language, keeping the definition in line with all scriptures that include the definition and context, is not our own personal interpretation.

It takes time and patience. But, it’s Holy Spirit who puts them all together. Then wait on the Lord for confirmation usually through another.

Then other times it’s like downloading information from the computer. Just comes.

In the Greek...whelmed is the word for our English with baptism. This is exactly what happens when prophesying, or speaking in tongues, or any other gifting. You are whelmed by God. You have Holy Spirit, you have all of Him within. But, He chooses how to use us personally.

This fulfills that which says we are Spirit, not flesh is the Spirit of God is within us. Being Spirit, we have been given a spiritual language. This is our personal prayer language which can whelm us at times and become then a message {gift} to others when interpreted.

Then Paul says, if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ {new birth} he does not belong to Him.

I have had two experiences where it was as if I was in another dimension, doing things naturally supernaturally not by my own initiative but by God. I don’t know what to call it but I think this could be a taste of the fullness.
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
18,008
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To study the English words and look at the meanings in the original language, keeping the definition in line with all scriptures that include the definition and context, is not our own personal interpretation.
The bible was not written in english. So if your going to an english dictionary, you may not get the correct interpretation. The english dicstionary uses defenitions commonly used, It changes all the time. If you want to know what a word means, go to the greek.

?////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


It takes time and patience. But, it’s Holy Spirit who puts them all together. Then wait on the Lord for confirmation usually through another.

Then other times it’s like downloading information from the computer. Just comes.

In the Greek...whelmed is the word for our English with baptism. This is exactly what happens when prophesying, or speaking in tongues, or any other gifting. You are whelmed by God. You have Holy Spirit, you have all of Him within. But, He chooses how to use us personally.

This fulfills that which says we are Spirit, not flesh is the Spirit of God is within us. Being Spirit, we have been given a spiritual language. This is our personal prayer language which can whelm us at times and become then a message {gift} to others when interpreted.

Then Paul says, if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ {new birth} he does not belong to Him.

I have had two experiences where it was as if I was in another dimension, doing things naturally supernaturally not by my own initiative but by God. I don’t know what to call it but I think this could be a taste of the fullness.
Wrong

The english word Baptism comes from the greek word Baptizo. It is not even a native english word. It was a transliteration not a translation. Thats why we have so many different beliefs as to what it means. While it can mean overwhelmed, As is overwhelmed with grief. That is not its normal usage.


Its normal usage is as something which is immersed in some fluid. A dyer dyes garments by baptizing a garment in dye, A ship can be overwhelmed with water (sink) meaning it basically was totally immersed in the water.

Jews baptized things by immersing them in water, thus cleaning them (they even had a ceremonial washing for temple utensils.

They also baptized priests and gentiles. In water

John came baptising in water. But said Jesus would baptize with the HS.

Scripture says the jews were baptized into moses. This is the same usage as us being baptized into Christ. Who is our head.

We also have believers being baptized into Christ’s death, His burial, His body (the church) and himself. Paul tells us ur spiritual cleansing done without hands (circumcision) is performed by the baptism performed by the HS himself who raised christ from the dead.

its all there. In the greek. It is not the same as the HS coming into (anoint) you. Where you get gifts..
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,653
1,815
113
The bible was not written in english. So if your going to an english dictionary, you may not get the correct interpretation. The english dicstionary uses defenitions commonly used, It changes all the time. If you want to know what a word means, go to the greek.



Wrong

The english word Baptism comes from the greek word Baptizo. It is not even a native english word. It was a transliteration not a translation. Thats why we have so many different beliefs as to what it means. While it can mean overwhelmed, As is overwhelmed with grief. That is not its normal usage.


Its normal usage is as something which is immersed in some fluid. A dyer dyes garments by baptizing a garment in dye, A ship can be overwhelmed with water (sink) meaning it basically was totally immersed in the water.

Jews baptized things by immersing them in water, thus cleaning them (they even had a ceremonial washing for temple utensils.

They also baptized priests and gentiles. In water

John came baptising in water. But said Jesus would baptize with the HS.

Scripture says the jews were baptized into moses. This is the same usage as us being baptized into Christ. Who is our head.

We also have believers being baptized into Christ’s death, His burial, His body (the church) and himself. Paul tells us ur spiritual cleansing done without hands (circumcision) is performed by the baptism performed by the HS himself who raised christ from the dead.

its all there. In the greek. It is not the same as the HS coming into (anoint) you. Where you get gifts..
I don’t think you read my post close enough EG. But, I can plainly see that we don’t agree on this.

I have a busy day today, was just checking....can chat more about this later if you want to. Personally, I don’t think it will help either of us. 😞
 
Mar 14, 2011
77,140
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I don’t think you read my post close enough EG.
I read it just fine. I just can not agree with you.

But, I can plainly see that we don’t agree on this.
As far as baptism of the spirit goes. As long as you continue to think this is the anointing of the spirit. No, we will not agree. i can’t agree..

I have a busy day today, was just checking....can chat more about this later if you want to. Personally, I don’t think it will help either of us. 😞
I agree, it will not change.. And for this I am saddened.