Bride of Christ - who is She?

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iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
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#21
There is no scripture saying `the Bride of Christ.` It is all assumption based upon an exhortation. And that is NOT what doctrine is to be based on.

The marriage of the Lamb, is symbolic of Christ connecting again with Israel when He returns to deliver them. (Zech. 12: 10)

The Bible is NOT all about US, but for us to read and learn about - CHRIST AND HIS PURPOSES for the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations.
Hi, Marilyn
Paul had converted and taught these Corinthians enough to get their church started. Paul is addressing and drawing attention to those who are interfering with the church that he has established. Paul is righteously envious of the converts he has led to salvation, and he tells them that he has made each of them a part of "the bride of Jesus Christ," the anointed One.

For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

- 2 Corinthians 11:2 (NKJV)
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#22
These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God andto the Lamb. Rev.14:4
AMEN - AMEN - AMEN
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#23
There is no scripture saying `the Bride of Christ.` It is all assumption based upon an exhortation. And that is NOT what doctrine is to be based on.

The marriage of the Lamb, is symbolic of Christ connecting again with Israel when He returns to deliver them. (Zech. 12: 10)

The Bible is NOT all about US, but for us to read and learn about - CHRIST AND HIS PURPOSES for the Body of Christ, for Israel and for the nations.
The Bible is about Christ and His Bride - this Prophetic Truth of God began in the Garden -
"Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness" - "male and female made HE them"

The culmination of this Prophecy is found in the Gospels and Revelation, specifically chapters 14, 19, 22
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#24
AMEN - AMEN - AMEN
How are they firstfruits?

What makes them that?

How are they firstfruits of a harvest?

What harvest?

4 questions.
Probably get a single generalized answer.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#26
The Bible is about Christ and His Bride - this Prophetic Truth of God began in the Garden -
"Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness" - "male and female made HE them"

The culmination of this Prophecy is found in the Gospels and Revelation, specifically chapters 14, 19, 22
The bride is mainly gentile (ruth marries Boaz)

The Jews are the wayward wife.
She makes it to the wedding feast later in rev 14.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,210
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#27
Salvation is a free gift of grace we receive thru faith. So prior to salvation, our works are essentially meaningless. There are no amount of good works that will get you in, there is no amount of bad works that will exclude you. The foundation of free salvation is completely and totally unrelated to our works.

But after salvation, our works mean everything. God says that when we are gathered to be with Him, we will be judged by our works. Those who build upon the foundation of free salvation with good works will be rewarded, those who build upon the foundation of free salvation with bad works will suffer loss. These are all people who have been saved, yet right here God separates them into, for lack of a better term, 'have and have-nots'.

The same applies to the 10 virgins. These are all saved people. Yet half of them kept themselves filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit by walking the walk, while half of them let their light falter by living according to the world. The faithful half enter into a wedding feast, while the others are locked out. Again, there is a division among those who are saved.

Revelation is the key. In it an angel tells John "this is the bride of Christ". Does John see a church building or group of people? No, he sees the Holy City of New Jerusalem. The Bride of Christ is very clearly specified as the Holy City of New Jerusalem. But then John sees something else - that there are people who live within New Jerusalem, while there are nations of others who live outside the Holy City. This is on the New Earth, so these are ALL saved people, yet there is a clear distinction between those who live in the City, and those who live outside of it.

There's an erroneous idea in Christendom that post salvation we're on a cosmic joy ride and only have to sit back and watch God do His thing. But that's not how it works. From the beginning - God created creation. God was in charge of creation. God creates man. God puts man in charge of creation. God didn't tell Adam 'hey now just sit back and watch Me run this place'. No, God said "YOU Adam are the one who will run this place". Likewise, Jesus didn't say these things I do, you will watch Me do more of. No, He said what I do, YOU will now do. God intended our lives in creation to be an interactive experience. Interactive requires our participation. How (or if) we participate will determine whether we live within New Jerusalem, or outside of it.

One thing we see about those in the City is that they are God’s servants. Servants can take the form of tradesmen, who are paid a wage and work at will. Or servants can be slaves who are given neither consideration. In Old Testament times, if you had a slave you had to offer him his freedom after a period of service (Gen. 21:1-6). But if you were a good and loving master he might not have wanted to leave. So, you would pierce his ear as a symbol of his becoming your bondservant. In return for his agreeing to be your slave for life, you agreed to care for him and his family for life. When God speaks about His servants He speaks of His bondservants, those who when offered freedom have chosen slavery.

The population of New Jerusalem also includes those who "overcome.” Overcome is a fighting term, meaning to gain victory against an adversary in combat. In Jesus’ letters to the churches He commends their good works, rebukes their wrongs, exhorts them to seek a special understanding, and makes a specific promise to "those who overcome.” They are promised to eat from the tree of life; to not be hurt by the second death; and to be given hidden manna and a white stone with a new name on it, unknown to any others but themselves and God. They are also given power over the nations (keeping in mind this is the New Earth). They are also to be given the morning star, to be clothed in white, and to never have their names blotted out from the book of life but confessed before the Father and His angels. They are to be made pillars in the temple of God and to never go out from it, and to have written on them the name of the City of God. These promises are all identifiable to those given by John to the inhabitants of New Jerusalem. One new promise is that of being given the morning star. Jesus called himself the Morning Star (Rev. 22:16), and promised to give Himself as such to His Bride.

Too, the people who live in the City eat from the tree of life, whereas in the passage we see that the leaves of the tree are for the nations that surround it.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,210
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#28
We find more about overcoming. Daniel, in his visions, was told that after the beast overcomes the saints, many will be refined, purified, and made white. Then in Revelation 7:9-17 we see a vast multitude standing before the throne of God, wearing white robes and praising Him. These are described as those who come out of the great tribulation, having washed their robes in the Blood of the Lamb. These are promised to serve God before His throne day and night, and God will dwell among them. They hunger and thirst no more; the sun does not shine on them; the Lamb of the Throne will shepherd them and lead them to living waters; and their tears are wiped away. Again, Rev. 6:9-11 shows us the souls of those slain for the Word of God and His testimony under the altar, and they cry out to God asking when He will avenge their blood. They are each given a white robe and are told to rest a while longer until the number of their brethren who are likewise killed is complete.

Dwelling on the word "overcome” if I may, if we dig a little more we find two specific things overcome in the end time. One is the world, the other is Satan. We find that the world is overcome by the Blood of Jesus. But the Blood of the Lamb is specifically named in connection with the casting out of Satan (Rev. 7 and 12). We were told that Satan is overcome by the Blood of the Lamb, and the testimony of ‘those who do not love their lives unto death’.

This should put together some kind of picture for you. Jesus’ bride is those who have sealed themselves to God as true bondslaves, willing to die for Him. They will be His Bride and live with Him in the City. And the rest of us will live outside the City in nations of the saved.

Nowhere yet have we seen "the Church” in descriptions of His bride. This is unusual, because the Church is largely accepted as being the Bride of Christ. That connection comes from Ephesians 5:22-33, where Paul talks about husbands loving their wives as Christ loves the Church. In trying to explain what he calls a mystery, Paul quotes Genesis 2:23 where God declares that man and woman will become one flesh. In this setting God has just taken part of Adam’s body (his rib) to create his wife Eve. Paul specifically calls the church the body of Christ; Jesus is called the second Adam (1 Cor. 15:22, 45-49). To fit the pattern of Adam would it not follow that a part, and not all, of His body will be taken to create His bride?

In another place (2 Cor. 11) Paul explains further. He says he wishes to present us to the Lord as a chaste virgin. But then he fears that we be deceived and corrupt that purity. I think what Paul meant is that the Church, the aggregate body of all who believe in Christ, have been born virgin for betrothal to the Lord. But this virginal quality can be corrupted on an individual basis. Those of His people who don’t fall to this corruption will be taken from those who do, to become His bride. The rib from the body.

The Bible also talks about people entering into a wedding feast, and they are called blessed because they were invited. But in a Biblical wedding feast, the bride was not invited and did not attend. She was sequestered away someplace being prepared for the wedding night. After the feast, the groom would go to take his bride from that place. An example of this is Jacob’s marriage to Rachel (Gen. 29). If his bride to be had been at the wedding feast, Jacob would have known he was being given Leah instead. So again, there are two groups here… the general populace who feast, and those sequestered who give their life as a Bride.

Perhaps His Bride could also be seen by looking at her prefiguration. God will physically dwell on the New Earth in New Jerusalem. On Old Earth (our Earth) God physically dwelt on earth in the Tabernacle and the Temple. The facilities both consisted of a central structure, surrounded by a walled courtyard. One tribe out of the 12 (the Levites) were called apart from the family to serve inside the tabernacle/temple as God’s priests. The other tribes lived outside, but brought their sacrifices into the tabernacle/temple. This is what John saw with the New Earth and New Jerusalem - the only difference being nations instead of tribes, a city instead of a tent/building, and commerce instead of sacrifice.

We heard earlier that a biblical bride went somewhere to wait and prepare for the groom. So where does She go? Jesus said that those in Judea should flee to the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation. The Judeans were very close and loyal to Him. We also see the Revelation 12 prophecy of the woman who fled to a place prepared for her in the wilderness where she is cared for. Hosea 2 talks about the day of the Lord, as God speaks about Israel’s harlotry and His judgment upon her, after which He allures her into the wilderness and speaks comfort to her there. She is given vineyards as in the day she was called up out of Egypt, and she now calls Him Husband, not master. Again, there’s a repeating theme.

God has made it clear thru repetition. Among mankind there are two kinds of people - those who accept free salvation and those who don't. Then God further divides the saved, into those who walk the walk and those who don't. Those who are faithful to walk the walk will inhabit New Jerusalem as His Bride. Those who don't, even tho they are saved, are outside of that group.

God will have a pure and chaste bride - those who are committed to be His eternal bondservants to the death. Not all of His Body will be a part of her, but each of us has a chance to be that rib. It all depends on how much we love our Creator, and whether we let our simple dependence upon Him be corrupted.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
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763
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#29
AMEN - AMEN - AMEN
Yes, Amen!

These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. Rev.14:4

(This he said to show by what death he was to glorify God.) And after this he said to him, "Follow me." Jn.21:19

being made conformable unto his death; Phil.3:10

to be conformed to the image of his Son Rom.8:29

Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. Lk.9:57
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#30
The bride is mainly gentile (ruth marries Boaz)

The Jews are the wayward wife.
She makes it to the wedding feast later in rev 14.
***** ALERT - FALSEHOOD ALERT *****
The Restoration of the Jews are not in Revelation 14

The Jews get their judgment first = Day of Jacob's Trouble where two thirds perish - Zechariah 13

And in all the land,
declares the LORD,
two-thirds will be cut off and perish,
but a third will be left in it.
9This third I will bring through the fire;
I will refine them like silver
and test them like gold.
They will call on My name,
and I will answer them.
I will say, ‘They are My people,’
and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”

This occurs just prior to His Second Coming - Matthews 23

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.”

Repent and Return to the Fear of God and being obedient to His words.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#31
Yes, Amen!

These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. Rev.14:4

(This he said to show by what death he was to glorify God.) And after this he said to him, "Follow me." Jn.21:19

being made conformable unto his death; Phil.3:10

to be conformed to the image of his Son Rom.8:29

Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. Lk.9:57
i hope you know Brother that the 144k is symbolic and not the actual number.

There is a MAGNIFICENT Truth hidden in Revelation 7:1-8

If, you know of it - don't give it away - cherish those pearls.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
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#32
i hope you know Brother that the 144k is symbolic and not the actual number.

There is a MAGNIFICENT Truth hidden in Revelation 7:1-8

If, you know of it - don't give it away - cherish those pearls.
I was pointing to if we're conformed to our Lord's image in this life, we'll be conformed to his image in the next.
I don't know if the 144k is symbolic. You might be right about that.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#33
I was pointing to if we're conformed to our Lord's image in this life, we'll be conformed to his image in the next.
I don't know if the 144k is symbolic. You might be right about that.
Very true Brother
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#34
i hope you know Brother that the 144k is symbolic and not the actual number.
That's called putting a spin on the truth. So exactly what do 144,000 Israelites "symbolize"? Especially after they are spelled out in great detail? And if it is not the actual number, how many more zeros should we add?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#35
That's called putting a spin on the truth. So exactly what do 144,000 Israelites "symbolize"? Especially after they are spelled out in great detail? And if it is not the actual number, how many more zeros should we add?
PEACE - Seek and you will find, ask and it shall be given. We were all born into this world in darkness and religion.
Even after HE calls us out there is a lot of religion we have to fight thru to get to the Truth according to His Revelation.

Make no mistake Brother, it is a fight to know.

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
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#36
There are plenty of Scriptures speaking about the Bride of Christ and the Wife of the Lamb. If you chose to be wilfully ignorant, that is your problem.
Yes lots of scriptures talking about a `wife, a bride,` but NO, absolutely NO scripture saying that `the Church is the bride ,` or even a scripture saying `Bride of Christ.`
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
1,120
244
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#37
Hi, Marilyn
Paul had converted and taught these Corinthians enough to get their church started. Paul is addressing and drawing attention to those who are interfering with the church that he has established. Paul is righteously envious of the converts he has led to salvation, and he tells them that he has made each of them a part of "the bride of Jesus Christ," the anointed One.

For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

- 2 Corinthians 11:2 (NKJV)
Actually Paul is saying to HIS disciples that he wants to present them pure to the Lord. Now the apostle Paul DOES NOT present US to the Lord, for it is the Lord Himself who will present us to Himself.

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to PRESENT YOU faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy...` (Jude 24)

How is Paul going to present us? He doesn`t.

We can`t build a doctrine on a symbolic picture.
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
1,120
244
63
#38
The Bible is about Christ and His Bride - this Prophetic Truth of God began in the Garden -
"Let Us make man in Our Image according to Our Likeness" - "male and female made HE them"

The culmination of this Prophecy is found in the Gospels and Revelation, specifically chapters 14, 19, 22
What is the purpose of the `bride?` It is a symbol of God`s purpose for ISRAEL, as God`s word has said.

Jesus does not marry any one. He connects with Israel again and that is likened to a `marriage,` of Him with `the wife.` Israel is the `wife,` and God is the `husband.` The meaning of `husband` in Hebrew is master, and that is the relationship God has to Israel.

Whereas the Lord`s relationship with His believers is much closer - Head and Body. Nothing closer than that.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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#39
What is the purpose of the `bride?` It is a symbol of God`s purpose for ISRAEL, as God`s word has said.

Jesus does not marry any one. He connects with Israel again and that is likened to a `marriage,` of Him with `the wife.` Israel is the `wife,` and God is the `husband.` The meaning of `husband` in Hebrew is master, and that is the relationship God has to Israel.

Whereas the Lord`s relationship with His believers is much closer - Head and Body. Nothing closer than that.
i suggest you read, study and pray the Gospel of John ( even if you have 100x already) - do it again and take notes on everything that speaks of and pertains to marriage - as it was during the days the Lord walked this earth.
PEACE
 

iTheophilus

Well-known member
Oct 28, 2021
436
471
63
#40
Actually Paul is saying to HIS disciples that he wants to present them pure to the Lord. Now the apostle Paul DOES NOT present US to the Lord, for it is the Lord Himself who will present us to Himself.

`Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to PRESENT YOU faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy...` (Jude 24)

How is Paul going to present us? He doesn`t.

We can`t build a doctrine on a symbolic picture.
Marilyn, perhaps this will help you understand verse 2 of 2 Corinthians.

2 Corinthians 11 Bible Commentary
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In this chapter the apostle goes on with his discourse, in opposition to the false apostles, who were very industrious to lessen his interest and reputation among the Corinthians, and had prevailed too much by their insinuations. I. He apologizes for going about to commend himself, and gives the reason for what he did (v. 1-4). II. He mentions, in his own necessary vindication, his equality with the other apostles, and with the false apostles in this particular of preaching the gospel to the Corinthians freely, without wages (v. 5-15). III. He makes another preface to what he was about further to say in his own justification (v. 16-21). And, IV. He gives a large account of his qualifications, labours, and sufferings, in which he exceeded the false apostles (v. 22 to the end).

Verses 1-4

Here we may observe, 1. The apology the apostle makes for going about to commend himself. He is loth to enter upon this subject of self-commendation: Would to God you could bear with me a little in my folly, v. 1. He calls this folly, because too often it is really no better. In his case it was necessary; yet, seeing others might apprehend it to be folly in him, he desires them to bear with it. Note, As much against the grain as it is with a proud man to acknowledge his infirmities, so much is it against the grain with a humble man to speak in his own praise. It is no pleasure to a good man to speak well of himself, yet in some cases it is lawful, namely, when it is for the advantage of others, or for our own necessary vindication; as thus it was here. For, 2. We have the reasons for what the apostle did. (1.) To preserve the Corinthians from being corrupted by the insinuations of the false apostles, v. 2, 3. He tells them he was jealous over them with godly jealousy; he was afraid lest their faith should be weakened by hearkening to such suggestions as tended to lessen their regard to his ministry, by which they were brought to the Christian faith. He had espoused them to one husband, that is, converted them to Christianity (and the conversion of a soul is its marriage to the Lord Jesus); and he was desirous to present them as a chaste virgin—pure, and spotless, and faithful, not having their minds corrupted with false doctrines by false teachers, as Eve was beguiled by the subtlety of the serpent. This godly jealousy in the apostle was a mixture of love and fear; and faithful ministers cannot but be afraid and concerned for their people, lest they should lose that which they have received, and turn from what they have embraced, especially when deceivers have gone abroad, or have crept in among them. (2.) To vindicate himself against the false apostles, forasmuch as they could not pretend they had another Jesus, or another Spirit, or another gospel, to preach to them, v. 4. If this had been the case, there would have been some colour of reason to bear with them, or to hearken to them. But seeing there is but one Jesus, one Spirit, and one gospel, that is, or at least that ought to be, preached to them and received by them, what reason could there be why the Corinthians should be prejudiced against him, who first converted them to the faith, by the artifices of any adversary? It was a just occasion of jealousy that such persons designed to preach another Jesus, another Spirit, and another gospel.