Broad Path, Narrow Path

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
The above should of read....You might want to actually read the post that you’re responding to; nothing in the post that you responded to warrents any of your response
I guess it's because we are not on the same path that you do not understand where l am coming from. I did read it.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,556
2,985
113
Jude 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

If we are in grace, His unmerited favour, then He will keep us from sin.
Falling means falling away from salvation..

It does not mean falling into sin..

Jesus presents us faultless on the day of Judgement because He has atoned for all our sins..

Thats why His Favour for us is unmerited..
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
Falling means falling away from salvation..

It does not mean falling into sin..

Jesus presents us faultless on the day of Judgement because He has atoned for all our sins..

Thats why His Favour for us is unmerited..
That is your interpretation of it. It is unmerited at the beginning for forgiveness for past sins. After that it is according to the faith we have that He will keep us from sin. Obviously if we do not have faith that He will keep us from sin (falling) then we will fall, repeatedly.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,556
2,985
113
That is your interpretation of it. It is unmerited at the beginning for forgiveness for past sins. After that it is according to the faith we have that He will keep us from sin.
You have already revealed that you still sin..

So does that mean your faith is questionable? Faulty?

For me i have absolute Faith in what Jesus did to save me.. I am 100% assured of my salvation.. Why? Because i am not relying on my success at ceasing to sin.. I am relying on the effectiveness of the Atonement that Jesus secured on the cross for me.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
I am relying on the effectiveness of the Atonement that Jesus secured on the cross for me.
Yes I am too and am not sinning deliberately. I believe that Christ can save me from sin as He has in the past. However, I do not have assurance atm that i am without sin, but I must give that priority as I have been distracted this year, having lost my daughter.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,556
2,985
113
Yes I am too and am not sinning deliberately. I believe that Christ can save me from sin as He has in the past. However, I do not have assurance atm that i am without sin, but I must give that priority as I have been distracted this year, having lost my daughter.
Well i have never had any assurance that i have ever been or will ever be without sin in this flesh life. I can recite the worthy saying that Paul declared all Christians should affirm when he said:

1 Timothy 1: KJV
15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Note carefully when Paul says "I am chief" , He never said "i was formerly chief".. Or "before i was saved i was a Chief sinner".. No past tense here.. But current tense as in Paul was still a sinner at the time he established this Faithful saying.. And declared himself to be a chief sinner..
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Whatever is being preached today is part of the broad path and all these self appointed teachers/evangelists/pastors/prophets are the many false prophets being spoken of (All of them).

That broad and narrow path spoken of by Jesus is the same thing as the first being the last and the last being the first- means all these religious people are part of the broad path or the first who shall be the last.

These has been shown severally within the scripture on judgement day scenarios where people who did not expect to make it to heaven made it and were surprised- they'll ask the Lord "...when did we saw you naked and clothed you...". The other group (the religious group) expected to be in heaven but would be rejected.
In another judgement scenario, some will ask, "..did we not prophesy and do many miracles in your name..." but would be rejected.

I have spent a lot of time studying the gospel that is being preached today, it is nothing close to what Jesus and the apostles preached trust me.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
Well i have never had any assurance that i have ever been or will ever be without sin in this flesh life. I can recite the worthy saying that Paul declared all Christians should affirm when he said:

1 Timothy 1: KJV
15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Note carefully when Paul says "I am chief" , He never said "i was formerly chief".. Or "before i was saved i was a Chief sinner".. No past tense here.. But current tense as in Paul was still a sinner at the time he established this Faithful saying.. And declared himself to be a chief sinner..
Paul was speaking those words in context to verse 12; his former blaspheming, persecuting and injuriousness that he did ignorantly in unbelief. He was speaking in historic present.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)

Paul did not put limitation on what GOD could do like so many what to do here. In respect to sinlessness He said,
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:12-15 KJV)
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,043
113
Luke 5:
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

For Some folks the Seed had already come.

This is not my view, but what the Author of my Faith teaches.
to me, asking someone "in your view" would include which scriptures they would post in response and also any explanatory comments and notes they would include in their post.

again, thank you for your answer.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
Well i have never had any assurance that i have ever been or will ever be without sin in this flesh life. I can recite the worthy saying that Paul declared all Christians should affirm when he said:

1 Timothy 1: KJV
15 "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

Note carefully when Paul says "I am chief" , He never said "i was formerly chief".. Or "before i was saved i was a Chief sinner".. No past tense here.. But current tense as in Paul was still a sinner at the time he established this Faithful saying.. And declared himself to be a chief sinner..
Yes agree I am chief of sinners like Paul, saved by grace. That is who I am but Christ lives in me.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,556
2,985
113
Paul was speaking those words in context to verse 12; his former blaspheming, persecuting and injuriousness that he did ignorantly in unbelief. He was speaking in historic present.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)

Paul did not put limitation on what GOD could do like so many what to do here. In respect to sinlessness He said,
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:12-15 KJV)
If he was speaking of the past He would have said it in the past tense I was Chief.. Not in the presant tense "I am Chief"

Paul knew what he was saying and the Bible is the inspired Word of God..

So i totally reject the point that He was talking about the past, His former situation..
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
Show me the error then and I will recant.
I cannot show you. It must be revealed by the Lord.

The time when you came to Christ and were filled with the longing to be perfect for Him, but were told that we cannot stop sinning in this life was the start of the error. If you had been born in the time of the Holiness Movement there would be a great change that you would have been given the truth but no more unfortunately as the church is in darkness.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
If he was speaking of the past He would have said it in the past tense I was Chief.. Not in the presant tense "I am Chief"

Paul knew what he was saying and the Bible is the inspired Word of God..

So i totally reject the point that He was talking about the past, His former situation..
I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? He sinned because he could not help himself.

He states he obtained mercy in verse 12 because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. Then in context to that he is says he is chief. Then he goes back to speaking of the mercy which he received for the things in which he did ignorantly in unbelief in verse 12. that in him first (same word as chief in the Greek) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. In other words you can't get much worse than me and I obtained mercy.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)

Paul did not put limitation on what GOD could do like so many what to do here. In respect to sinlessness He said,
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:12-15 KJV)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
I cannot show you. It must be revealed by the Lord.

The time when you came to Christ and were filled with the longing to be perfect for Him, but were told that we cannot stop sinning in this life was the start of the error. .
Like it was stated in the post to which you responded to, "you did not read the post" or you did not understand it. Nothing in the original post you responded to says anything contrary to what you stated here.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,556
2,985
113
I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? He sinned because he could not help himself.

He states he obtained mercy in verse 12 because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. Then in context to that he is says he is chief.
I context :oops:???

You have the termerity to say Context when you fail to show the actual context of that remark.. All i need to do to reveal the context of Pauls remark is to quote the verse in it's entirety...

1 Timothy 1: KJV
13 "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."

Paul was talking about His time as a persecutor or Christians, he was talking about His former life when he blasphemed the message of Christianity and physically injured Christians.. He was not talking about Sin in general He was talking about all the things He did because of His opposition to the Gospel and Christians..

Acts 9 KJV
1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

Paul being a religious Jew knew only too well all the Law of the Torah.. He was not talking about those sins when He was talking about the things he did in ignorance..
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
I context :oops:???

You have the temerity to say Context when you fail to show the actual context of that remark.. All i need to do to reveal the context of Pauls remark is to quote the verse in it's entirety...

1 Timothy 1: KJV
13 "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief."

Paul was talking about His time as a persecutor or Christians, he was talking about His former life when he blasphemed the message of Christianity and physically injured Christians.. He was not talking about Sin in general He was talking about all the things He did because of His opposition to the Gospel and Christians..
It would be verses in their entirety; 12-16.
He states he obtained mercy in verse 12 because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. Then in context to that he is says he is chief. Same paragraph being spoken in the linear sense. Making the original statement in verse 12 then building upon it until verse sixteen where he closes the paragraph; the thought. Where he goes back to speaking of the mercy which he received for the things in which he did ignorantly in unbelief in verse 12. That in him first (same word as chief in the Greek) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. In other words you can't get much worse than me and I obtained mercy.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)


I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? He sinned because he could not help himself.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,556
2,985
113
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)


I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? He sinned because he could not help himself.
No Paul spoke of His past in verse 13.. and then spoke of His present a Chief sinner.. Paul obtained mercy.. He did not obtain sinlessness in his carnal flesh.. God is long suffering towards us because we believe Him and trust in the Way He has made for us to be saved..
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
503
113
55
HBG. Pa. USA
It would be verses in their entirety; 12-16.
He states he obtained mercy in verse 12 because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. Then in context to that he is says he is chief. Same paragraph being spoken in the linear sense. Making the original statement in verse 12 then building upon it until verse sixteen where he closes the paragraph; the thought. Where he goes back to speaking of the mercy which he received for the things in which he did ignorantly in unbelief in verse 12. That in him first (same word as chief in the Greek) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. In other words you can't get much worse than me and I obtained mercy.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)

No Paul spoke of His past in verse 13.. and then spoke of His present a Chief sinner..
He was speaking in the historic present.


Paul obtained mercy.. He did not obtain sinlessness in his carnal flesh.. .
Unless you are GOD you have no idea what Paul did.

Paul did not put limitation on what GOD could do like so many what to do here. In respect to sinlessness He said,
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:12-15 KJV)

I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? He sinned because he could not help himself.