Bullying why?

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#1
Saul was a bully. JEsus asked him why do you persecute me?

Saul couldnt give an answer.

Interestingly I asked this on another christian forum which turns out several bullies came out of the woodwork and said why they bully people. And also when people tried to bully them they just punched them back. They claimed that this stopped the bullying but..anyone can see it just turned them into bullies themselves.

I thought about this for a bit and wondered if they ever prayed for their enemies isntead of punching them. Jesus was mocked and cursed and people were wanting to fight him to death but he never engaged in that. Even his disciples said why dont you just call fire down from heaven. But Jesus said you dont know what spirit you speak of. Jesus did rebuke and simply told them to get lost but never laid a hand on them.

Im very dismayed that some christians think to deal with bullies they need to fight back.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,110
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#2
I understand your thoughts overall, but I disagree that Saul/Paul was a bully. He didn't personally do physical harm to people that I recall in Scripture. Yes, he was guilty of hunting down followers of Christ and arresting and imprisoning them. And, yes, many of them ( I suspect ) were physically harmed, and even killed. But Saul held the coats of the bullies!

(just saying)

As for bullies: There is a time for prayer and there is a time for kicking butt! Scripture teaches

Ecclesiastes 3:1) To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

2A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.


God bless
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,327
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#4
Nope Paul used fear and intimidation towards those who were weaker. He admited them himself that he was the chief sinner and injured others. Otherwise why would Jesus ask him why he was persecuting Him and kicking against the pricks. See acts 9:15

And

1 timothy 1:13

Does this mean christians think its ok to persecute, do the same and intimidate and threaten anyone whos an unbeliever. I dont think so. we can warn, and just tell the truth - but everyone has to answer to God themselves on judgement day. Not us..God. Also its quite clear in revelation that the angels are a heavenly army sent to fight for us. Our weapons are not carnal.

For believers we can guide and teach but never Lord it over anyone. Why because Jesus is our Lord and saviour, not anyone else. Why some people seem to think its ok to act like a bully I dont know. Maybe they just dont know any better.

There is no justification for it. Ecclesiasites actually gives no justification for being a bully or to persecute anyone. This doesnt mean we cant rebuke. Casting out demons is not actually bullying its just telling them where to go. In the Bible its people who wanted to be free of demons that Jesus did this. And we can still do today, but that is not bullying.

Eccelesiastes actually talks about the differnece between the rightoeusnes and the wicked as He is the judge ecclesiastes. 3:17
But recall, ecclesiastes is a book that is about the time before Jesus.
Chapter 4 talks about there being no comforter, for the oppressed or the oppressor. The preacher did not yet know of the comforter that Jesus would send.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
25,110
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#5
Sorry you misunderstood my comments. I'll try again. As for Ecclesiastes, it was not to justify bullies, but to justify how one treats bullies........... There is a time to pray for them, and a time to kick butt. Christ Himself showed us this, as He prayed for such as they, and, in the Temple, He kicked butt with the money changers who defiled Gods House, and drove them out. That was the purpose for posting the Scriptures from Ecclesiastes.

As for Saul/Paul being a bully, I disagree. A bully acts the way they do without any thought of justification or doing good. They do so because of the evil inside them. Saul/Paul believed he was doing Gods work. He believed he was obeying the Law! He believed the Law justified his persecution of Christians. Big difference in that and what bullies do.

Hope that clears it up.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
4,954
1,788
113
#6
Saul was a bully. JEsus asked him why do you persecute me?

Saul couldnt give an answer.

Interestingly I asked this on another christian forum which turns out several bullies came out of the woodwork and said why they bully people. And also when people tried to bully them they just punched them back. They claimed that this stopped the bullying but..anyone can see it just turned them into bullies themselves.

I thought about this for a bit and wondered if they ever prayed for their enemies isntead of punching them. Jesus was mocked and cursed and people were wanting to fight him to death but he never engaged in that. Even his disciples said why dont you just call fire down from heaven. But Jesus said you dont know what spirit you speak of. Jesus did rebuke and simply told them to get lost but never laid a hand on them.

Im very dismayed that some christians think to deal with bullies they need to fight back.
Paul later in His letters stated why he persecuted Christians.. He did so in ignorance thinking they where heretics..

Some bullies just get a twisted pleasure out of damaging other people, they love the feeling of dominance and power over others and their ability to inflict suffering on another.. Talk about taking pleasure in unrighteousness.. A bully is the very definition of one taking pleasure in unrighteousness..

When ever i have faced a bully i have prayed for the self control and strength to endure the persecution and also prayed for the intervention of God to free me from the bullies attentions.. Bullies,, especially the clinical psychotic types are a curse upon those who they seek to destroy.. But the vengeance of the LORD is far more terrible then anything the bully can engage in..
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
2,870
589
113
#7
Saul was a bully. JEsus asked him why do you persecute me?

Saul couldnt give an answer.

Interestingly I asked this on another christian forum which turns out several bullies came out of the woodwork and said why they bully people. And also when people tried to bully them they just punched them back. They claimed that this stopped the bullying but..anyone can see it just turned them into bullies themselves.

I thought about this for a bit and wondered if they ever prayed for their enemies isntead of punching them. Jesus was mocked and cursed and people were wanting to fight him to death but he never engaged in that. Even his disciples said why dont you just call fire down from heaven. But Jesus said you dont know what spirit you speak of. Jesus did rebuke and simply told them to get lost but never laid a hand on them.

Im very dismayed that some christians think to deal with bullies they need to fight back.
A great post - I mostly agree with you. I believe Christians are called to love their enemies and to do good to those who hurt them. Bullying will just cause the bully to push back. It will not win him to Christ.

Just like the disciples who wanted to call down fire from heaven, much of the world today (most Christians included) want to kill their enemies rather than love them.
 
#8
Deuteronomy 7
19 The great temptations which thine eyes saw, and the signs, and the wonders, and the mighty hand, and the stretched out arm, whereby the Lord thy God brought thee out: so shall the Lord thy God do unto all the people of whom thou art afraid.
20 Moreover the Lord thy God will send the hornet among them, until they that are left, and hide themselves from thee, be destroyed.
22 And the Lord thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.
24 And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them.
25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therin: for it is an abomination to the Lord thy God.
26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,553
3,144
113
#9
Nope Paul used fear and intimidation towards those who were weaker. He admited them himself that he was the chief sinner and injured others. Otherwise why would Jesus ask him why he was persecuting Him and kicking against the pricks. See acts 9:15

And

1 timothy 1:13

Does this mean christians think its ok to persecute, do the same and intimidate and threaten anyone whos an unbeliever. I dont think so. we can warn, and just tell the truth - but everyone has to answer to God themselves on judgement day. Not us..God. Also its quite clear in revelation that the angels are a heavenly army sent to fight for us. Our weapons are not carnal.

For believers we can guide and teach but never Lord it over anyone. Why because Jesus is our Lord and saviour, not anyone else. Why some people seem to think its ok to act like a bully I dont know. Maybe they just dont know any better.

There is no justification for it. Ecclesiasites actually gives no justification for being a bully or to persecute anyone. This doesnt mean we cant rebuke. Casting out demons is not actually bullying its just telling them where to go. In the Bible its people who wanted to be free of demons that Jesus did this. And we can still do today, but that is not bullying.

Eccelesiastes actually talks about the differnece between the rightoeusnes and the wicked as He is the judge ecclesiastes. 3:17
But recall, ecclesiastes is a book that is about the time before Jesus.
Chapter 4 talks about there being no comforter, for the oppressed or the oppressor. The preacher did not yet know of the comforter that Jesus would send.

are you asking about bullies in general or those who identify as being Christian and bully...in particular in this forum there are quite a few

I wouldn't call Saul a bully though. you have to understand that believers in Christ back then were considered much as we might call something a cult today. so, Saul was acting in 'faith' towards those whom he had identified as a part of that cult

he totally changed when Jesus interrupted his journey to do more harm to believers

you are 100% right in stating a Christian, a follower of Christ, should not bully, intimidate, harass, or otherwise go after others they disagree with

they should be reported every time until it stops. I'm not holding my breath however. :cautious:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,228
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#10
Sadly, the only thing many bullies understand is pain. You can pray for them, pray that the Lord will touch their hearts, pray that He will end their bullying, and still end up beaten, shafted, broke, homeless, or dead. Or, you can pray for them and stand up to them.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,327
1,319
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#11
Hmm i would say that saul was a bully in that he was acting like a bully, cos all bullies in a sense act in ignorance. And there was evil inside of Saul thats why Jesus had to confront him.

Look at the way the Pharisees treated Jesus they really did bully him. They basically tried ot run him out of town, bait him, accuse him, and throw him off a cliff. All the time jusitfiying it was the law, well thats what bullies use as an excuse. Bullies in upper management get away with it cos they can bend the rules and they have the power. But they are ignorant of the Highest power. They also think they are doing right as everyone does what is right in their own eyes.

This is why Jesus blinded saul. He couldnt see Jesus cos his light was so bright. Saul was operating in darkness. The worst bullies are the hypocrites. I dont think you can make any justification and Paul wasnt making any either by saying he did it in ignorance and unbelief. He was just stating a fact.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,989
304
83
#12
Saul was a bully. JEsus asked him why do you persecute me?

Saul couldnt give an answer.

Interestingly I asked this on another christian forum which turns out several bullies came out of the woodwork and said why they bully people. And also when people tried to bully them they just punched them back. They claimed that this stopped the bullying but..anyone can see it just turned them into bullies themselves.

I thought about this for a bit and wondered if they ever prayed for their enemies isntead of punching them. Jesus was mocked and cursed and people were wanting to fight him to death but he never engaged in that. Even his disciples said why dont you just call fire down from heaven. But Jesus said you dont know what spirit you speak of. Jesus did rebuke and simply told them to get lost but never laid a hand on them.

Im very dismayed that some christians think to deal with bullies they need to fight back.
Saul did persecute the Christians, and consented with the persecution against them, and their death, and said that he wasted the Church with the amount of people that were persecuted, and died, and said because of that he is the least of the least of the saints, but thankful God had mercy on him.

But Saul was not really a bully as far as a bully is described, but he thought he was doing the will of God, saying that he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees, and more zealous of the traditions of his fathers, and did not believe Jesus was the Messiah.

And that is why Jesus turned him to the truth, because a person can blaspheme against the Son, the flesh, but not against the Spirit, and Paul did not go against the Spirit, for he was not against God, but he went against the man Christ Jesus, the flesh, not believing he was the Messiah until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, and the experience caused him to realize Jesus is the Messiah, and he followed Jesus right away for he knew he had an encounter with God for there was no other explanation, and it could not be denied.

So Saul was not bullying people for the sake of trying to be superior as a bully would do, but thought he was doing the will of God by putting down the people, and their spreading the news of a Messiah he thought was fake, and not of God.

Saul was not doing bullying tactics when he went against the Church, but thought he was doing the will of God until he found out he was not doing the will of God, and then believed Jesus was the Messiah and did the will of God correctly, so Saul in his persecuting was to give glory to God until he found out it was not giving glory to God, and then went by the truth giving glory to God and embracing Jesus and the Church.

Are we bullying when we preach the Gospel of Christ,and telling people to repent of their sins, and being at odds with people concerning it at times, but we are doing the will of God giving glory to Him, so Saul was not bullying either by preaching what he thought was truth about God, and preaching that, and being at odds with people concerning it at times, and thought he was giving glory to God, but found out he was wrong, and accepted the truth of Jesus, and the Church, and did they will of God, and gave glory to God correctly, and stopped being at odds with the Church he once persecuted.

Saul was not giving glory to himself, and to exalt himself, when he persecuted the Church, so they are not bullying tactics.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
1,200
769
113
Texas
#13
Bullying is such a kitchy modpop subject. Bullying has been around from the fall. The main problem with bullying is that we think it is stoppable; it's not. All the pop-psycobable spewed by the so called authorities on the matter, of how to deal with a bully will likely make it worse and possibly get you hurt. The old Maxim "hurt people, hurt people" is true, but approaching a wounded wolf is dangerous, even if you have good intentions.
 

Sipsey

Active member
Sep 27, 2018
410
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#14
I attended several schools and was the “new” kid in class in both rural Alabama and the Windy City of Chicago. I wound up standing up to several bullies and actually became friends with them. Later in life I studied a variety of martial arts. I could break 3 bricks stacked. I never had to use it in a fight, but it gave me confidence. A single bully is quite different than a group. I’ve never had a problem one one one, it seems I can find words to diffuse their insecurities. At the root it seems most bullies I’ve seen were either evil or very insecure. The insecure ones I can deal with, the evil ones I prayed for.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#15
Im very dismayed that some christians think to deal with bullies they need to fight back.
Not necessarily fight back, but everyone (including Christians) should stand up to bullies (who are essentially cowards). But if necessary, a well-placed punch to a bully could also end the bullying. After which you could shake his/her hand and befriend him/her. Girls (women ) can also be bullies.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,327
1,319
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#16
Not necessarily fight back, but everyone (including Christians) should stand up to bullies (who are essentially cowards). But if necessary, a well-placed punch to a bully could also end the bullying. After which you could shake his/her hand and befriend him/her. Girls (women ) can also be bullies.
I dont think it does, to counter using violence. . PEter made that mistake trying to cut off the guards ear but Jesus healed him.

Nobody has said girls and women cant be bullies but there are more womens refuges than mens.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,327
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#17
Saul did persecute the Christians, and consented with the persecution against them, and their death, and said that he wasted the Church with the amount of people that were persecuted, and died, and said because of that he is the least of the least of the saints, but thankful God had mercy on him.

But Saul was not really a bully as far as a bully is described, but he thought he was doing the will of God, saying that he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees, and more zealous of the traditions of his fathers, and did not believe Jesus was the Messiah.

And that is why Jesus turned him to the truth, because a person can blaspheme against the Son, the flesh, but not against the Spirit, and Paul did not go against the Spirit, for he was not against God, but he went against the man Christ Jesus, the flesh, not believing he was the Messiah until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, and the experience caused him to realize Jesus is the Messiah, and he followed Jesus right away for he knew he had an encounter with God for there was no other explanation, and it could not be denied.

So Saul was not bullying people for the sake of trying to be superior as a bully would do, but thought he was doing the will of God by putting down the people, and their spreading the news of a Messiah he thought was fake, and not of God.

Saul was not doing bullying tactics when he went against the Church, but thought he was doing the will of God until he found out he was not doing the will of God, and then believed Jesus was the Messiah and did the will of God correctly, so Saul in his persecuting was to give glory to God until he found out it was not giving glory to God, and then went by the truth giving glory to God and embracing Jesus and the Church.

Are we bullying when we preach the Gospel of Christ,and telling people to repent of their sins, and being at odds with people concerning it at times, but we are doing the will of God giving glory to Him, so Saul was not bullying either by preaching what he thought was truth about God, and preaching that, and being at odds with people concerning it at times, and thought he was giving glory to God, but found out he was wrong, and accepted the truth of Jesus, and the Church, and did they will of God, and gave glory to God correctly, and stopped being at odds with the Church he once persecuted.

Saul was not giving glory to himself, and to exalt himself, when he persecuted the Church, so they are not bullying tactics.
I think you pyscholanalysing saul too much trying to justify his behaviour. Tell that to Stephen who got stoned and died cos of sauls actions. stephen prayed for saul and thats why Jesus confronted Saul on the road to demascus.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,327
1,319
113
#18
Bullying is such a kitchy modpop subject. Bullying has been around from the fall. The main problem with bullying is that we think it is stoppable; it's not. All the pop-psycobable spewed by the so called authorities on the matter, of how to deal with a bully will likely make it worse and possibly get you hurt. The old Maxim "hurt people, hurt people" is true, but approaching a wounded wolf is dangerous, even if you have good intentions.
With children in class you just separate them if they getting in each others space. But if it happens in families and the parents turn a blind eye well look what happened to Joseph. In Genesis. However Joseph said what you meant for evil, God turned it to good. He did forgive his brothers in the end but after testing their loyalty and love for Benjamin. I mean they could have easily turned on Benjamin after Joseph got taken to slavery.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,228
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#19
Nobody has said girls and women cant be bullies but there are more womens refuges than mens.
This is a completely unrelated issue.

There are more women's shelters than men's shelters because feminists railed loudly against men's shelters, not because there is less need for them. Read Erin Pizzey's story; she started the first modern women's shelters and has since come to be a spokeswoman for men's rights because she knows firsthand the incredible imbalance in funding, media support, and public perception of the situation.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
8,933
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#20
I dont think it does, to counter using violence. . PEter made that mistake trying to cut off the guards ear but Jesus healed him.
Context is critical. You have taken something out of context. Peter was trying to defend his Master, but the Master did not need any defenders at that time (as He Himself said).

Normally Christians should shun violence. But there can be times when it is necessary. And that the battle of Armageddon, there will be nothing but violent destruction of the enemies of Christ and Israel.