By Works

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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That’s means a man must WORK to abide, or he loses salvation (is cast into the fire) I can not attach myself to the vine I have no power. god has to attach me.

hence a works based not a grace based Gospel
LOL! This post made me do a double-take . . . until I looked closer at the context and the issue being answered.

But, I would suggest, EG, that you be clearer on what you write -- because a person could read that response and think (1 ) that you are a works salvationist, and (2) that salvation can be lost. :D:eek:

Now I know you don't believe either one of those! Unless something has changed . . . LOL!

And if you do believe those two things, LOL! -- now you are in the opposite ditch from me than what you were before: while I continue walking in the middle of the straight and narrow . . . ;)
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Nope, your teaching is truncated and errant and doesn't line up with the truth of Scripture or genuine gospel understanding. You would have been in the state of 1 John 2:19 if you never returned to Christ as you make claim to have done.
What if we just let God be the judge of EG's state those five years - but on the other hand, EG, if you know you had faith for those years even in spite of your struggles, then you were likely still a son . . .

But if you did not have faith, then . . . (but only God determines eternal destiny)

This is interesting:

EG conclusion: I was saved at a point in time hence when I struggled for five years there is no doubt I was still saved.
Preacher: Since EG returned to Christ (after five years of struggle), then that is likely evidence that he was really born again the first time. But if he had not returned to Christ, then his works would have been evidence that he was never saved in the first place
Chester: I don't really know about those five years: I let that up to EG and his evaluaion - and to God - but the question is does EG believe today - and I think he does!

My evaluations above may not be fair or clear, so feel free to correct me . . .
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Just Jo, I understand that some people (probably including myself) use context and the Greek as a hammer to pound a point. And I agree with you that they can be overused, and sometimes they are used to belittle others. I am sad about that and where I have done it I repent.

But that does not change that context is very critical to interpret a text. When done properly, understanding what a verse means in the context of the passage deepens and beautifies its meaning. And the Greek has added such a depth of meaning and love and grace to my understanding of some texts: I remember with great fondness my aged virtuous Greek teacher sharing some of these nuggets of truth with tears running down his face!



See above



And I think that you did not hear Just Jo - She is a lady with a huge heart - and so her frustration came out in a few texts, and I bet with a slowed down understanding approach the conflict could have been minimized.



Ah, sad, I hate when people have to be put on ignore --

The post you quoted of mine was not addressed to just_jo it was addressed to @Jackson123

As for just_jo, no, I'm not into the flattering of a person and how huge their heart is or what not. She's a sinner just like everyone else on here, and this isn't her first time taking a jab at my person for a post I've made. Perhaps she is agreeable with you, that is good, but many of these newbs have come out against a certain group, teaming with others who are notorious for this.

I find that interesting, and so do others.

She had ample opportunity to own why she posted that thing and it is apparent why she did so. I don't mind being disagreed with, but when one is coy about it that's different. If you're going to call out a person, then be able to admit it. Trying to make me out to be a liar over it, a "bully" (and I KNOW the person that encouraged her to do this) well, that is uncalled for.

My point is that context is very important, and would have to disagree with you that it is used to belittle others, unless I am misunderstanding you.

The thing that gets me more than anything on this site is the dishonesty. It is intolerable. It makes true dialog impossible as when one won't own their response, it turns into the former nonsense.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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What if we just let God be the judge
"Let" God be the judge? He is the judge whether we "let" Him be, or not. ;)

You're taking my analysis the wrong way.

I am offering a biblical analysis not different than what John said in 1 John 2:19. If we cannot do this, then we just need to stop implementing Scripture and being "Dr's of men's souls" in using it.

For the record I had to evaluate my own walk after a terrible time away from God. I am convinced that if I had not come back, it meant I was not truly converted. I discovered this after he brought me back to Him by grace.

of EG's state those five years - but on the other hand, EG, if you know you had faith for those years even in spite of your struggles, then you were likely still a son .
I'm just using Scripture to examine this. IMHO if a person does not return they were never his. That, and you misunderstand what I said. If the person returns, they were always truly a son, if not, 1 John 2:19.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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LOL! This post made me do a double-take . . . until I looked closer at the context and the issue being answered.

But, I would suggest, EG, that you be clearer on what you write -- because a person could read that response and think (1 ) that you are a works salvationist, and (2) that salvation can be lost. :D:eek:

Now I know you don't believe either one of those! Unless something has changed . . . LOL!

And if you do believe those two things, LOL! -- now you are in the opposite ditch from me than what you were before: while I continue walking in the middle of the straight and narrow . . . ;)
Not sure why you would think this. Lol. I read it a few times. It still say I have no power,God has to attach (save) me. Lol but sorry if you were confused
 
Mar 14, 2011
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What if we just let God be the judge of EG's state those five years - but on the other hand, EG, if you know you had faith for those years even in spite of your struggles, then you were likely still a son . . .

But if you did not have faith, then . . . (but only God determines eternal destiny)

This is interesting:

EG conclusion: I was saved at a point in time hence when I struggled for five years there is no doubt I was still saved.
Preacher: Since EG returned to Christ (after five years of struggle), then that is likely evidence that he was really born again the first time. But if he had not returned to Christ, then his works would have been evidence that he was never saved in the first place
Chester: I don't really know about those five years: I let that up to EG and his evaluaion - and to God - but the question is does EG believe today - and I think he does!

My evaluations above may not be fair or clear, so feel free to correct me . . .
The poster you spoke of there does not understand that fact that many people in their state of being are killed or die while they are in that state because of something they did or where they where

in his view that person was never saved to begin with because they never came back.

in my view that person committed a sin which led to his death (physical). Yet if he was truly saved before he still was.

he wants to be judge and jury if what he said is true, (I can not see what he posts). And not allow God to be judge,,
 

Micaiah-imla

Well-known member
Feb 29, 2020
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I wonder if he reads the New Testament in Greek only... :rolleyes: (speaking in the 3rd person since he’s ignoring me).

We all better go study Greek to get the truth that the English (or any other language) is incapable of translating.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are obsessed with the original languages of scripture as well. And, if I’m not mistaken, the Catholics did not want the Scriptures translated into a language the common people could understand; but what’s the point?

We have that same cult like spirit today with all these false doctrines held up by Greek pedants.

They are the wise and prudent that Christ said the truth was hidden from (Matthew 11:25).
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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God is Faithful, if I died in that state I was still a son, I would have still been risen to eternal life. I had the seal of the spirit as my pledge,
So you don't believe what Jesus say

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast theminto the fire, and they are burned.

Jesus say
No abide > burn

You say
Jesus lie, no abide > heaven
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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What if we just let God be the judge of EG's state those five years - but on the other hand, EG, if you know you had faith for those years even in spite of your struggles, then you were likely still a son .
Jesus is the judge, He judge by what He promise to do, when He say He will burn all people that not abide in Him, He will not change His mine and lie

This is what He say how He will judge

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast theminto the fire, and they are burned.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I wonder if he reads the New Testament in Greek only... :rolleyes: (speaking in the 3rd person since he’s ignoring me).

We all better go study Greek to get the truth that the English (or any other language) is incapable of translating.
The thing about Greek is that it does not always solve all the issues: sometimes it will only clarify the options of possibilities. But hey, if you want to study Greek, I would glad to tutor you . . . :)



Jehovah’s Witnesses are obsessed with the original languages of scripture as well. And, if I’m not mistaken, the Catholics did not want the Scriptures translated into a language the common people could understand; but what’s the point?

We have that same cult like spirit today with all these false doctrines held up by Greek pedants.

They are the wise and prudent that Christ said the truth was hidden from (Matthew 11:25).

Well, well, I feel accused - I John 5:18 . . . . !! Oh, I agree that Greek pedants (I had to look up that word, LOL!) sometimes have false doctrines. But then I know some folks who rail on the Greek pedants who also have some false doctrine (my view, of course!).

1596294881110.jpeg

pedant = "a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning."
 
Feb 6, 2014
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thats works salvation not grace

i trust god to save me, not my power or ability to save myself

the Greek is clear, amd I have witness in my own life what it says as a prodigal child
Jesus say

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast theminto the fire, and they are burned.

Not abide > burn

GE say

Jesus lie, verse 6 mean work salvation.

So my brother GE accused Jesus as liar
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Jesus say

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast theminto the fire, and they are burned.

Not abide > burn

GE say

Jesus lie, verse 6 mean work salvation.

So my brother GE accused Jesus as liar
That Means you have to WORK to earn your salvation by abiding in him.

Jesus can not co trading himself. He spoke of those having eternal life based on faith and asking him, and feading on the words he came to give,life the true bread of life (John 3, 4, 6, and others.

he is teaching a truth here, any branch that abides will produce, not all the same, he has to lift some up so it does not dIe he has to prune others to get rid of the diseased part so the branch does not die. And if a believer that once produced fruit stops abiding he will be chastened and God will work, but ultimately he may die (be cast to the fire) because his usefulness in Gods plan is gone

you want god to contradict himself? I am sorry I can’t,

salvation is by grace not works, period
 
Feb 6, 2014
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That Means you have to WORK to earn your salvation by abiding in him.

Jesus can not co trading himself. He spoke of those having eternal life based on faith and asking him, and feading on the words he came to give,life the true bread of life (John 3, 4, 6, and others.

he is teaching a truth here, any branch that abides will produce, not all the same, he has to lift some up so it does not dIe he has to prune others to get rid of the diseased part so the branch does not die. And if a believer that once produced fruit stops abiding he will be chastened and God will work, but ultimately he may die (be cast to the fire) because his usefulness in Gods plan is gone

you want god to contradict himself? I am sorry I can’t,

salvation is by grace not works, period
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast theminto the fire, and they are burned.

So I am right, you change the Word.
Jesus say

No abide > burn

You accused this verse is contradict another verse that say salvation by grace.
Friend, you think grace mean you don't have to believe in Jesus, ok to kill without repent because David kill etc.

So my brother, 1 cor 6:9-11 is also contradict with the bible

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


It say killer go to hell

You say
No, it is work salvation so this verse must be wrong

And you will make your own bible, my friend
 
Jul 8, 2018
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"Context" is the one word I have grown to hate as well as original,Greek and Hebrew word meanings!

I live in the word of God alone, the HOLY SPIRIT is my teacher.
He can show us just through one verse,not the whole chapter what we need to know!

I think in this age many are NOT dependent upon the Spirit and God to teach us but rather self and others!

I cannot save another by my beliefs! I must share the word in love and leave it up to the Spirit to produce.

We are allowing satan to use us when we seek to shame,condemn,accuse,antagonize,judge or falsify others position with God.
You will never be able to harmonize the scriptures until you consult the help of a Greek concordance.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast theminto the fire, and they are burned.

So I am right, you change the Word.
Jesus say

No abide > burn

You accused this verse is contradict another verse that say salvation by grace.
Friend, you think grace mean you don't have to believe in Jesus, ok to kill without repent because David kill etc.

So my brother, 1 cor 6:9-11 is also contradict with the bible

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


It say killer go to hell

You say
No, it is work salvation so this verse must be wrong

And you will make your own bible, my friend
Jesus said in John 3. Whoever believes has eternal life. I guess Jesus lies

He said in John 4. Ask and he will give rivers of living water flowing to eternal life. I guess he lied

He said in John 6. Whoever eats will never hunger never thirst never die. live forever have eternal life and will be raised on the last day

He also said whoever believes has eternal life whoever dies not believe does not have life by gods wrath

Jesus did not contradict himself a few chapters later like you insist. He did not promise conditional life he promised eternal. Based on faith. Not based on our power to abide. He did not promise that rivers of living water would stop flowing if we stop abiding he said it would continue forever. He did not promise that we could still die. Still hunger and thirst only have conditional Life based on whether we continue to abide. And only promise to raise us on the last day based on how we abide. He said all who eat will have

Sorry bro, your interpretation causes Jesus to contradict himself. You can post that verse a million times. It still must be interpreted in a way that makes scripture harmonize. In your interpretation scripture contradicts. Thus I can. It follow your view You view has people earning a grace gift which nullifies the gift
 
Feb 6, 2014
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Jesus said in John 3. Whoever believes has eternal life. I guess Jesus lies

He said in John 4. Ask and he will give rivers of living water flowing to eternal life. I guess he lied

He said in John 6. Whoever eats will never hunger never thirst never die. live forever have eternal life and will be raised on the last day

He also said whoever believes has eternal life whoever dies not believe does not have life by gods wrath

Jesus did not contradict himself a few chapters later like you insist. He did not promise conditional life he promised eternal. Based on faith. Not based on our power to abide. He did not promise that rivers of living water would stop flowing if we stop abiding he said it would continue forever. He did not promise that we could still die. Still hunger and thirst only have conditional Life based on whether we continue to abide. And only promise to raise us on the last day based on how we abide. He said all who eat will have

Sorry bro, your interpretation causes Jesus to contradict himself. You can post that verse a million times. It still must be interpreted in a way that makes scripture harmonize. In your interpretation scripture contradicts. Thus I can. It follow your view You view has people earning a grace gift which nullifies the gift
My brothers the is state we don't need to interpretate
jesus say no abide go to hell

1 cor 6:9-11
Killer not inherit kingdom

I think you have problem to understand what grace is

You think grace mean you can kill without repent and go to heaven, you contradict 1 cor 6 my brother.

Read Luke 10 carefully, did Jesus contradict Himself?

Lawyer ask

What shall I do to inherit the kingdom/save

Did Jesus answer, kill rob the bank as long as you believe I am God?

Didn't Jesus answer Love your God............ and love your neighbors like yourself

Love your neighbors? Is that mean helping them, feed them when they are hungry

Oh Jesus contradict Himself. This is work salvation not grace salvation.

My brother, you will end up to delete a lot of verse and make your own bible

Luke 10

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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My brothers the is state we don't need to interpretate
jesus say no abide go to hell

1 cor 6:9-11
Killer not inherit kingdom

I think you have problem to understand what grace is

You think grace mean you can kill without repent and go to heaven, you contradict 1 cor 6 my brother.

Read Luke 10 carefully, did Jesus contradict Himself?

Lawyer ask

What shall I do to inherit the kingdom/save

Did Jesus answer, kill rob the bank as long as you believe I am God?

Didn't Jesus answer Love your God............ and love your neighbors like yourself

Love your neighbors? Is that mean helping them, feed them when they are hungry

Oh Jesus contradict Himself. This is work salvation not grace salvation.

My brother, you will end up to delete a lot of verse and make your own bible

Luke 10

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
My friend. Until you show how that passage resolves with the passages I showed there is nothing further to discuss

And you wanting to
Condemn certain sins who do you think you are. You judge yet you do not look inside. I can only determine you do not understand grace. Especially since you appear to be trying to earn it
 
Feb 6, 2014
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My friend. Until you show how that passage resolves with the passages I showed there is nothing further to discuss

And you wanting to
Condemn certain sins who do you think you are. You judge yet you do not look inside. I can only determine you do not understand grace. Especially since you appear to be trying to earn it
You misunderstood me again my friend.

I show you what bible say, not judge.

When I quote the Bible that say Jesus only way to salvation do I judge Muslim?

Lawyer ask what shall I do to inherit eternal life

You change to
=What shall I do to keep my reward but still save

So you either not agree with Jesus or you accuse Jesus contradict Himslef.

To me Bible tell the truth.
Salvation by grace trough faith

Faith mean love Jesus and love neighbors love neighbor and it mean helping neighbors and you accused Jesus teach work salvation
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You misunderstood me again my friend.

I show you what bible say, not judge.
you showed me a passage and gave me your interpretation

i showed you some passages that contradict your interpretation

yet you ignore those passages and continue to show me the one verse as if that trumps those others,.

that’s why we can go not further,

When I quote the Bible that say Jesus only way to salvation do I judge Muslim?

Lawyer ask what shall I do to inherit eternal life

You change to
=What shall I do to keep my reward but still save

So you either not agree with Jesus or you accuse Jesus contradict Himslef.

To me Bible tell the truth.
Salvation by grace trough faith

Faith mean love Jesus and love neighbors love neighbor and it mean helping neighbors and you accused Jesus teach work salvation
I showed you what Jesus said and how we get eternal life

you keep telling me I can lose eternal life, which means jesus lied

so either explain to me how Jesus did not mean what he said in John 3, 4 and 6 and other areas. Or I will move on because there is nothing further to discuss my friend,