By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

We clearly see here that Abraham was not justified (accounted as righteous) by works.

You "added" the words "of the law" here in Romans 4:2. The translation simply reads, "justified by works" and not works of the law and Abraham was before the law and if someone is justified they are accounted as righteous (Romans 4:2-3) so your point is moot.

Say what? Righteousness under the law would take sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time to the law. Only Jesus Christ would qualify under those terms. Ecclesiastes 7:20 - Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins. Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Job admitted his human sinfulness. (Job 7:21; 13:26) So much for obtaining righteousness under the law.

Is that what we read in Romans 5:1-2 and Ephesians 2:8,9? - NO.

Are those who have been accounted as righteous, justified? Are those who are justified, accounted as righteous? (Romans 4:2-3)

Now that statement is the epitome of irony! You continue to make this out to be much more complicated than it really is.

Once again, your unorthodox logic is hard to follow.

No one is just in of themselves. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23) So how were the old testament saints saved?

By faith or faith plus works of faith? Or do you just include works of faith into your definition of faith?

who could ever think their "work" would make them worthy to be called Gods children?

It makes no sense

 

[jackrosie]

who could ever think their "work" would make them worthy to be called Gods children?

It makes no sense

Works follow after salvation..agree?x

 

[mailmandan]

Works follow after salvation..agree?x

Yes, works "follow" after having been saved through faith, but are not the cause of salvation.

 

[jackrosie]

Yes, works "follow" after having been saved through faith, but are not the cause of salvation.

Thanks bro..Amen,x

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Works follow after salvation..agree?x

Yes, And not everyone will become super duper all righteous Christians immediately. As children, everyone grows at different rates. Some, (like the corinthian church) might remain babes for awhile.. It just meeds they need fed milk not meat. not that they are not saved

 

[jackrosie]

Yes, And not everyone will become super duper all righteous Christians immediately. As children, everyone grows at different rates. Some, (like the corinthian church) might remain babes for awhile.. It just meeds they need fed milk not meat. not that they are not saved

Amen bro!!.x

 

[EleventhHour]

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:28-29

Tells me that without one single other work a saved person is saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:28-29

Tells me that without one single other work a saved person is saved.

Yes
were you responding to anyone particular?

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes
were you responding to anyone particular?

Just love that verse....

God is good... He has done all the work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just love that verse....

God is good... He has done all the work.

Yep
amen to that
He had to. Nothing we can do to
Cover one sin let alone all we have commutes

 

[Chester]

James say faith without work is dead.
I attend bible study and the leader say salvation is by faith, a young man ask, he do sin every day, I know that young man he do drug and free sex
The leader replay, it doesn't matter you not going lose your salvation.

I am not try to judge, but is that what James teach?
Make me confuse. I am sinner too but because I am a sinner, than I say, killing every day is ok as long as I believe Jesus I will not lose my salvation. To be save is only need confest our sin and invite jesus

James teaches very clearly that a faith that does not have works is dead and thus is not faith at all. Faith without works is dead. Period. End of story. James means what he says.

Is this fellow (who does drugs and free sex) you are talking about saved? I don't know: only God determines eternal destiny.

Here is what I do know. If that fellow has a faith and belief in Jesus then he is saved and his sins are forgiven.
If he is not believing in Jesus, then he is not saved and his sins are not forgiven.

If I were leading that Bible study, I would confront this fellow with his sins (in a deep real, loving way).
If he is a Christian, he should respond in repentance and move toward victorious living.
If he is not a Christian, then he needs to realize his lost state, repent, believe, and be saved.

Now one caution: the leader must be sensitive to the Spirit in confronting sin - there is a right timing and way to do this. But there is never a place to simply say that sinning is OK because God forgives it. This only leaves a person as a "miserable sinning Christian" - if there is such a thing . . .?

The clear goal of this thread is to move believers from lukewarmness and mediocrity to live a life of victory above sin. This is done by an exercise of faith and thus God is able to work in the believer's life to make him "his workmanship" (Eph. 2:10).

 

[Jackson123]

1 Corinthians 6

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Scary verses.
Salvation Not by work, but hell is by work. Can we free from what bible list above? Are we never lie?

 

[Chester]

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:28-29

Tells me that without one single other work a saved person is saved.

John 6:26-29:
26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The people here were following Jesus because they wanted their physical bellies filled. Jesus says that they should seek after and work for what is eternal. So they ask: "What shall we do to do God's work?" But the doing was not the issue: Jesus says they must believe before any works (doing) will benefit. The "working" is to believe in Him.

When people truly believe in Jesus Christ there will be evidence and fruit of that faith (as James says). "To work" is actually "to believe". It will never be "going to church" or "not smoking' or "wearing the right clothes", etc. that saves a person. The work that saves a person is a faith that is real, alive, and working for the kingdom of God. Any other type of faith is dead!

The clear goal of this thread is to move believers from lukewarmness and mediocrity to live a life of victory above sin. This is done by an exercise of faith and thus God is able to work in the believer's life to make him "his workmanship" (Eph. 2:10).

 

[Chester]

Yes, And not everyone will become super duper all righteous Christians immediately. As children, everyone grows at different rates. Some, (like the corinthian church) might remain babes for awhile.. It just meeds they need fed milk not meat. not that they are not saved

True, all grow at different rates - and not all (in fact - probably none ) will become super Christians immediately).

But, the goal is for all to become radical, on fire, real, live, joyous, sacrificing, enticing, and humble believers in Christ. The goal in feeding milk is to prepare the believer for meat. The goal is not to have your convert stay a babe as long as possible.

But your caution is well taken - some push too hard and cause converts to become discouraged and depressed because they cannot measure up! And that can be a big problem!

 

[Jackson123]

John 6:26-29:
26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The people here were following Jesus because they wanted their physical bellies filled. Jesus says that they should seek after and work for what is eternal. So they ask: "What shall we do to do God's work?" But the doing was not the issue: Jesus says they must believe before any works (doing) will benefit. The "working" is to believe in Him.

When people truly believe in Jesus Christ there will be evidence and fruit of that faith (as James says). "To work" is actually "to believe". It will never be "going to church" or "not smoking' or "wearing the right clothes", etc. that saves a person. The work that saves a person is a faith that is real, alive, and working for the kingdom of God. Any other type of faith is dead!

The clear goal of this thread is to move believers from lukewarmness and mediocrity to live a life of victory above sin. This is done by an exercise of faith and thus God is able to work in the believer's life to make him "his workmanship" (Eph. 2:10).

I think we need to know, wether lukewarm go to hell or save?

 

[Chester]

I think we need to know, wether lukewarm go to hell or save?

Eternal destiny is determined by God and not by man.

Revelation 3 says of those "lukewarm" in Laodicea, that God will spew them out of his mouth. But here in my area the term "lukewarm" is often simply used to speak of a believer who is not living a life filled with the Spirit. Too many of us are sometimes living a "lukewarm" life! No excuses, though: that is not God's plan for the believer!

 

[Jackson123]

Eternal destiny is determined by God and not by man.

Revelation 3 says of those "lukewarm" in Laodicea, that God will spew them out of his mouth. But here in my area the term "lukewarm" is often simply used to speak of a believer who is not living a life filled with the Spirit. Too many of us are sometimes living a "lukewarm" life! No excuses, though: that is not God's plan for the believer!

God spew the lukewarm, what is that mean?
Go to hell or heaven?

 

[dcontroversal]

without works = we are dead. life IS work and so likewise with Spiritual matters.

What works did the thief on the cross do? NONE....! But he did exercise FAITH in the Lord Jesus!

 

[DesertWanderer]

Yes, works "follow" after having been saved through faith, but are not the cause of salvation

Wonderfully put, but this fact should not be a convenient excuse to merely sit in a comfortable pew for an hour a week while brothers and sisters in Christ are suffering at home only a few blocks away. We need to start getting our hands dirty by involving ourselves in each other's lives.

So when Jesus had washed their feet and put his outer clothing back on, he took his place at the table again and said to them, “Do you understand what I have done for you? You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and do so correctly, for that is what I am. If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you too ought to wash one another’s feet. For I have given you an example—you should do just as I have done for you. John 13:12-15

 

[jackrosie]

Yes, And not everyone will become super duper all righteous Christians immediately. As children, everyone grows at different rates. Some, (like the corinthian church) might remain babes for awhile.. It just meeds they need fed milk not meat. not that they are not saved

Maybe not....but it is very important for a believer to bear fruit.

After yrs and yrs of walking with the Lord...I see a lot of scriptural knowledge from some.....but I see absolutely no fruit.......

That for me rings alarm bells....it’s worrying as the Lord has called us to be humble and to bear fruit...that is my main focus....I was called out last night for being passive aggressive,which I agree with....what I don’t understand is why others weren’t called out for their behaviour..trolling,baiting,antagonistic,making fun and laughing posts.
So I will leave that question in God’s hands.