Calvinists are preaching a false message .

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throughfaith

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Election also is speaking of the Foreknowledge of God which man is not privileged to know. God is able to reject one and accept another, Which is biblical in the context of the Nature of God. To use that to say " I am chosen and you are not " is the issue of some Calvinist who branched off into other things, not all were godly.
I think the teachings on ' election ' and predestination are very much influenced by Calvinism. It has permeated into many denominations and traditions that really all place ' election as being ' to salvation ' in some sense . Of course typically the Arminain adds ' according to foreknowledge ' . Still placing election and Predestination ( often this is taught as basically the same thing ) before creation.
 

CS1

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Which verses says this?

Ok I will show you Rom11:2

is one of many examples :

"God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.( of those whom God elected to salvation )Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,"

also known as to predestinate from the Greek translation.
 

throughfaith

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now you are being foolish because no one is saying the RCC is right but I will say there are those in the RCC who are saved.

Do you disagree with that? Or are you just more wanting us to agree with you because not doing so has to be error because you know better than we all?
Many people are saved in spite of the teachings they are now holding . A calvinst is not saved because of Calvinism but inspite of it . He adopts the system before he is grounded into the scriptures.
 

CS1

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I think the teachings on ' election ' and predestination are very much influenced by Calvinism. It has permeated into many denominations and traditions that really all place ' election as being ' to salvation ' in some sense . Of course typically the Arminain adds ' according to foreknowledge ' . Still placing election and Predestination ( often this is taught as basically the same thing ) before creation.
wrong! they are in the Bible spoken by Jesus and paul thank you very much. And well seen in the Old Testament too.
 

throughfaith

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Ok I will show you Rom11:2

is one of many examples :

"God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.( of those whom God elected to salvation )Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,"

also known as to predestinate from the Greek translation.
Foreknew is a word not a doctrine.
Here's your presupposition. //of those whom God elected to salvation // Israel is God's firstborn son . He has always 'known 'them . Even inspite if their stumbling ect . ( Fore ....knew .
 

CS1

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Many people are saved in spite of the teachings they are now holding . A calvinst is not saved because of Calvinism but inspite of it . He adopts the system before he is grounded into the scriptures.
again the teaching of Election, the elect, the called-out ones, the saved are biblical long before John Calvin. that is just the truth.
 

NOV25

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@throughfaith would you please give me one or even a few verse on how salvation occurs?
 

throughfaith

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Ok I will show you Rom11:2

is one of many examples :

"God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.( of those whom God elected to salvation )Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying,"

also known as to predestinate from the Greek translation.
God has not cast away ISRAEL . The whole context is about their TEMPORARY hardening . Their TEMPORARY setting aside . He has not cast them off permanently. His promises ( whom he foreknew) to those ( ISRAEL ) whom he foreknew ,still stand and will be realised in the future when ISREAL turn back to the Lord ( whom ( ISRAEL ) HE foreknew ) .
Those he knew before are ISRAEL .
 

CS1

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Foreknew is a word not a doctrine.
Here's your presupposition. //of those whom God elected to salvation //
FYI Trinity too is a word that speaks of a concept found throughout the Bible Yet that word is not even mentioned. But Election and the Elect are. FYI the doctrine of the Trinity is biblical as the doctrine of "Election" is.

If you are going to be rude and insult and speak to us presuming we are ignorant, you may want to find those who agree with you, that way your ego is preserved.
 

Magenta

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I think the teachings on ' election ' and predestination are very much influenced by Calvinism. It has permeated into many denominations and traditions that really all place ' election as being ' to salvation ' in some sense . Of course typically the Arminain adds ' according to foreknowledge ' . Still placing election and Predestination ( often this is taught as basically the same thing ) before creation.


No doubt due to verses such as Ephesians 1:4-6 :)
 

throughfaith

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@throughfaith would you please give me one or even a few verse on how salvation occurs?
Eph 1.13- 14
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Can you do so without going to them old testament verses in John 6 ?
This is a challenge to those that hold to covenant theology.
 

throughfaith

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FYI Trinity too is a word that speaks of a concept found throughout the Bible Yet that word is not even mentioned. But Election and the Elect are. FYI the doctrine of the Trinity is biblical as the doctrine of "Election" is.

If you are going to be rude and insult and speak to us presuming we are ignorant, you may want to find those who agree with you, that way your ego is preserved.
I never mentioned anything about the nature and being of God . You added to the Scriptures.
 

throughfaith

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No doubt due to verses such as Ephesians 1:4-6 :)
Which are a favourite proof texts for Calvinsm. All you need to fit the system is 'chosen ''before ' and to gloss over 'in him 'and ignore the question " where you in Christ before you existed ?" And " when did you become in christ ? " The answer can never be ,before the foundation of the world . The post hoc rationalization created by the systems is " well its in God's mind " , Or " its associated with christ , so its ' in him ' in the sense of connected to him , blah blah " .
The bible says this no where but is forced into the text because it needs to support the overall picture.
 

NOV25

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Eph 1.13- 14
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Can you do so without going to them old testament verses in John 6 ?
This is a challenge to those that hold to covenant theology.
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
 

throughfaith

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FYI Trinity too is a word that speaks of a concept found throughout the Bible Yet that word is not even mentioned. But Election and the Elect are. FYI the doctrine of the Trinity is biblical as the doctrine of "Election" is.

If you are going to be rude and insult and speak to us presuming we are ignorant, you may want to find those who agree with you, that way your ego is preserved.
Election is mentioned. Its not a mystery. its a word . Theological baggage is placed onto the word . Jesus is Elect . Not to salvation.
 

throughfaith

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According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Amen . And the adoption? when does that happen ? Rom 8.23 . Notice I can tell you when the adoption is and what it is with one clear verse . Here it is in these verses .

19For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH !!!! for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING !!!! for( FOR WHAT ? ) THE ADOPTION, ( AND WHAT IS IT ) to wit, the REDEMPTION OF OUR BODY.

So when you read ephesians 1 we can see when predestination takes place . After we believed . Along with verse 3. blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus. Including what was chosen before. That believers go on to be holy and blameless ect .
 

phil36

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Hi throughfaith,

As I've said before if you are an orphan and another family takes you in then they have adopted you. Paul is talking about that Already but not yet tension. We' are saved Already, yet we await that final glorification -Not yet.

So in the 'legal' sense we are 'Already adopted into the kingdom of God, Paul refers to this at Romans 8:15 (just a few verses before the verses you have supplied). We already enjoy the benefits of Sons. Paul takes this further when we get to the verses you provided. We will receive the fullness of ''adoption'' ie, resurrected bodies -perfect and free from sin..

So as one commentator has put it (in my own words). As adopted son/daughters we already enjoy some of the privilege's, but not yet fully at present. But we will enjoy all the privileges of heirs with Christ with the redemption of our bodies when Glorified.



Already - Romans 8:15

15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”


Not yet - Romans 8:23

23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
 

CS1

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I never mentioned anything about the nature and being of God . You added to the Scriptures.
Wrong! Can you be intellectually honest?

the context of my comment was the word " Foreknew"
which you responded with
"Foreknew is a word not a doctrine."

Elect or " the Elect" contextually have meaning with the word " Foreknew" which you asked me for Biblical verse, I provided.

I am going to let this go because I can see or I will say I can foreknow you will have some issues. And I will recommend this tread be closed because you are saying we are adding to scripture. You don't want open discussion or debate you want to insult. Do not respond to me again. we are done.

Thank you