Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#261
#261
Stunnedbygrace said:
I didn't believe God even existed. I picked up a bible and read the gospel and instantly saw that He did exist. I believed in an instant. Unbeliever to believer in one instant of time. Every day since then has been just as He said, a small seed of faith which has grown more and more as I walk with Him through all the circumstances of my days.

Faith was instant for me. Learning to remain in it without faltering (remain/abide in it) has been the process.
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I will not call you a liar. But I will just say, I have known hundreds of believers in many churches in my travels. And your the only person I have ever heard say this.

Everyone else tooksomeones years of learning or studying some even years.. Before they came to faith. Myself, it took a few years.. I believed for a long time, but had no clue how to have faiht until it was explained to me.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#263
Jan 24, 2011
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#263
Nehemiah6 said:
Since I have quoted the exact words from one of Spurgeon's sermons, why don't you enlighten us as to how it is possible for the New Birth to PRECEDE faith? And give us Bible examples of this strange phenomenon.

And putting "alleged" before believers is suggesting that they are not really saved -- questioning their salvation. Another one of your belligerent tactics.
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There is a man in this forum, not yet Calvinist, and he told me his testimony. He was an atheist. He went to bed an atheist. He work up in the morning, and he was saved. He had total faith in God. So, who saved him, and put the faith into his heart? This was not an intellectual proposition. God saved him! That’s it. God certainly knows when he chooses people, that when he saves them, they will believe.

I was awake when God saved me, but it was nothing I did. Jesus just reached down, told me he was real, and to follow him. I had no faith before that moment. I wasn’t given faith, then saved. I was born again, then I received the faith to believe.

I admit, this knocked me out of my socks, when I first read RC Sproule, about basic soteriology, and he said this. I kept thinking, “But why would God save me if I didn’t have faith?” But, when I thought back to the way God saved me, I was born again, then I was given the faith to believe.

Sorry if anyone else posted on this already, I’m still reading page 1.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#264
Nov 12, 2015
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#264
DevotiontoBible said:
Because they say if I don't believe as Calvinists do then I think I earned my Salvation.
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Hmm...if you think your trusting Him was your own decision, and your own decision saved you, then you must say the man who makes the decision not to trust Him has not been saved because of his own decision. The one man is saved by what he did and the other man is not saved by what he did. This sounds like receiving salvation by what you do, which sounds like earning it.

But if you know that it was God who did something that allowed you to suddenly see whereas before you didn't, you will not say that you just decided to believe and that is what saved you. You will say, He healed my blindness and I suddenly saw the truth and how would I not believe what I suddenly saw was true? There was no decision to make BUT the one you made. Who is going to say, I see this is all true but I don't care, I'm still not going to believe what I now know to be true...?
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#265
#265
I feel sad for the people who do not get chosen by God and given a new birth. :(
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#266
#266
I feel sadder for the Pharisees who thought they were chosen by God and Jesus told them their father was Satan...or those who reach heaven and told "depart from me workers of inquity, I never knew you." even though they cry out "Lord, Lord!"

I was looking for other threads but this one kept popping up.

The main lesson is we should all focus on being sheep and not goats and allow God to be GOD and sort out everyone else.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#267
Jul 18, 2017
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#267
Angela53510 said:
I was awake when God saved me, but it was nothing I did. Jesus just reached down, told me he was real, and to follow him. I had no faith before that moment. I wasn’t given faith, then saved. I was born again, then I received the faith to believe.
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Are you saying you were never exposed to the Gospel, had never heard of Christ, had never seen a Bible before you were born again? Not likely. The seed of the Gospel had been sown in your heart somewhere along the way. The same for the atheist. He must have been exposed to the rudiments or the Gospel somewhere along the way. And Scripture tells us that the Gospel is the "seed" of the New Birth (1 Pet 1:23-25).
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#269
Nov 12, 2015
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#269
eternally-gratefull said:
I will not call you a liar. But I will just say, I have known hundreds of believers in many churches in my travels. And your the only person I have ever heard say this.

Everyone else tooksomeones years of learning or studying some even years.. Before they came to faith. Myself, it took a few years.. I believed for a long time, but had no clue how to have faiht until it was explained to me.
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This may be where our disconnect is!
You seem to think of believing and having faith as 2 different things.
I think they are synonymous terms...

I think you start with the small seed of faith He gives you and then learn to abide/remain in it without wavering over time.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#270
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#270
eternally-gratefull said:
I will not call you a liar. But I will just say, I have known hundreds of believers in many churches in my travels. And your the only person I have ever heard say this.

Everyone else tooksomeones years of learning or studying some even years.. Before they came to faith. Myself, it took a few years.. I believed for a long time, but had no clue how to have faiht until it was explained to me.
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By the way, thank you for not calling me a liar...:D
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#271
Jul 31, 2013
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#271
But you ain't got no legs, Lt. Dan
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#273
Feb 10, 2017
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#273
I heard the gospel from a guy in Kathmandu - accepted the message and wham changed - now how that worked I ain't sure.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#275
Jul 31, 2013
36,825
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#275
Stunnedbygrace said:
PH you nut, what are you talking about...?? Haha!
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Its a line from Forest Gump.. One of his army buddies says he's thinking about trying out his sea legs, but he literally has no legs, lost iirc to a mine or grenade.

was just thinking, this is like the picture of the totally depraved coming to a knowledge of God. Cannot discern spiritual things without first receiving the Spirit. Make more sense now?

Lol but it reads better when it's just an isolated cryptic statement! Glad I gave you a laugh :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#277
#277
Ariel82 said:
I feel sadder for the Pharisees who thought they were chosen by God and Jesus told them their father was Satan...or those who reach heaven and told "depart from me workers of inquity, I never knew you." even though they cry out "Lord, Lord!"

I was looking for other threads but this one kept popping up.

The main lesson is we should all focus on being sheep and not goats and allow God to be GOD and sort out everyone else.
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I feel sad for both, they all will go to hell
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#278
#278
Stunnedbygrace said:
This may be where our disconnect is!
You seem to think of believing and having faith as 2 different things.
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I can believe and not have faith, many do The people in james believed in jesus, they never had true faith. That’s why they had no work, the root of their faith was not christ.
I think they are synonymous terms...
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they can be, dependson what kind of belief

I think you start with the small seed of faith He gives you and then learn to abide/remain in it without wavering over time.
Click to expand...
Yes, after we are saved, I am talking about the moment we are saved.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
#280
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#280
eternally-gratefull said:
I can believe and not have faith, many do The people in james believed in jesus, they never had true faith. That’s why they had no work, the root of their faith was not christ.


they can be, dependson what kind of belief


Yes, after we are saved, I am talking about the moment we are saved.
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Hmm...but to my ear you just said you've talked to hundreds of Christians and none of them had a moment where they had faith but it took years to come to faith...yet we are saved through faith.

Define in your own words - what does to have faith mean. Then define what to have belief means.
Faith = ?
Belief = ?
 
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