Calvinists: The Just Shall Live BEFORE Having Faith
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I don't fully understand Calvansim and it's tenants.
As a result my response may across as stupid and uneducated. Not unusual for me.
We know who saves and that is Jesus.
The new covenant is A.D. the period from when Jesus walked the earth as a man.
The old covenant is B.C. the period where his did not walk in the earth as a man.
Are God and Jesus not one?
If so even in the OC if they believe in God then defacto they believe in Jesus.
God promised a saviour a redeemer.
In the OC, Those who believed in God and walked in his ways knew that the redeemer would come.
Therefore the just shall live by his faith: True righteousness before God is linked to genuine faith in God.
Surely then those who live by faith do so when they place their faith in Jesus (A.D.) And in God (B.C.)
In the NC this faith is birthed by the Holy Spirit.
No idea how though in the OC.
So faith has a starting point.
If that is the case who started it? Surely the Holy Soirit.
Given that the Father, Son & Holy Spirit were the beginning then would they not know who would come to faith?
Yes I think the do.
Problem is we do not.
That's why we do not judge who is saved, will be saved or is not saved.
If we look at Jonah.
He would not go
Jonah 4:2
2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm.
Jonah 4:10-11
10 But the Lord said, “You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. 11 And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?”
To me God knows who will repent.
As I said I don't.
That's why we should be like Jesus, who said
John 6:39-40
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
Willing to be corrected, in love of course
As a result my response may across as stupid and uneducated. Not unusual for me.
We know who saves and that is Jesus.
The new covenant is A.D. the period from when Jesus walked the earth as a man.
The old covenant is B.C. the period where his did not walk in the earth as a man.
Are God and Jesus not one?
If so even in the OC if they believe in God then defacto they believe in Jesus.
God promised a saviour a redeemer.
In the OC, Those who believed in God and walked in his ways knew that the redeemer would come.
Therefore the just shall live by his faith: True righteousness before God is linked to genuine faith in God.
Surely then those who live by faith do so when they place their faith in Jesus (A.D.) And in God (B.C.)
In the NC this faith is birthed by the Holy Spirit.
No idea how though in the OC.
So faith has a starting point.
If that is the case who started it? Surely the Holy Soirit.
Given that the Father, Son & Holy Spirit were the beginning then would they not know who would come to faith?
Yes I think the do.
Problem is we do not.
That's why we do not judge who is saved, will be saved or is not saved.
If we look at Jonah.
He would not go
Jonah 4:2
2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, “Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm.
Jonah 4:10-11
10 But the Lord said, “You have had pity on the plant for which you have not labored, nor made it grow, which came up in a night and perished in a night. 11 And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left—and much livestock?”
To me God knows who will repent.
As I said I don't.
That's why we should be like Jesus, who said
John 6:39-40
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
John 10:27-30
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
Willing to be corrected, in love of course
In other words you have no defense.
My comment about preacher4truth's post#6 was well within bounds. This is an open forum and your judgmental attitude in not needed. Get a grip on your out of control PC mindset and stop reporting people for such bogus reasons. My comment on post#444 was a reply on preacher4truth's post#6 in which he called another person's beliefs "asinine".
I did not feel the need to report him, just wanted to express how others may feel his beliefs were asinine as well.
If such simple words offends your sensibilities I suggest you stop reading your bible, there is much more then this to melt your heart.
My comment about preacher4truth's post#6 was well within bounds. This is an open forum and your judgmental attitude in not needed. Get a grip on your out of control PC mindset and stop reporting people for such bogus reasons. My comment on post#444 was a reply on preacher4truth's post#6 in which he called another person's beliefs "asinine".
I did not feel the need to report him, just wanted to express how others may feel his beliefs were asinine as well.
If such simple words offends your sensibilities I suggest you stop reading your bible, there is much more then this to melt your heart.
The Holy Spirit does not generate faith apart from the Gospel (which is the Word of God). So saving faith is generated when the Gospel is preached in the power of the Spirit, and that is when the Gospel itself becomes "THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION".
Of course they would know. But that is NOT the issue. The issue is whether God the Holy Spirit enters into the heart (soul and spirit) of a person and regenerates him BEFORE he repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.
To believe that is to believe an absurdity, and also turn the Bible teaching on regeneration on its head.
The correct order in Scripture is:
HEAR THE GOSPEL
BE CONVICTED AND CONVINCED
REPENT AND BELIEVE
RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
BE REGENERATED BY THE SPIRIT SUPERNATURALLY AND BE SAVED
Of course they would know. But that is NOT the issue. The issue is whether God the Holy Spirit enters into the heart (soul and spirit) of a person and regenerates him BEFORE he repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.
To believe that is to believe an absurdity, and also turn the Bible teaching on regeneration on its head.
The correct order in Scripture is:
HEAR THE GOSPEL
BE CONVICTED AND CONVINCED
REPENT AND BELIEVE
RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS AND THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
BE REGENERATED BY THE SPIRIT SUPERNATURALLY AND BE SAVED
E
No, You have no defense.
1. You were not discussing the topic with ANYONE, this you had no reason to jump into a conversation and just attack anyone
2. All you did was attack someone, based on no given reason, only than to attack his faith.
3. I do not care who you are, if I do it, I am in sin, and I need corrected.
As for what Precher said, I stopped paying attention to what he said awhile ago. If you have a problem with what he said Quote his comment, Show how you disagree with his comment, and then move on. You do not do it the way you did it. Teenagers do that kind of stuff. it should not be coming from Mature believers in christ.
1. You were not discussing the topic with ANYONE, this you had no reason to jump into a conversation and just attack anyone
2. All you did was attack someone, based on no given reason, only than to attack his faith.
3. I do not care who you are, if I do it, I am in sin, and I need corrected.
As for what Precher said, I stopped paying attention to what he said awhile ago. If you have a problem with what he said Quote his comment, Show how you disagree with his comment, and then move on. You do not do it the way you did it. Teenagers do that kind of stuff. it should not be coming from Mature believers in christ.
Since the Holy Spirit could not be given until Christ finished His work of redemption and returned to Heaven, the OT saints were simply justified by faith and deemed righteous by God (see Hebrews 11). After the resurrection of Christ all of them were taken to Heaven and perfected, so they are now "the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb 12:23). Which would mean that now they also possess the Holy Spirit.
OT by water. NT by Spirit.
Again, Mikvah. The Jewish baptism of when a Jew turns to the Lord after a discretion of kind? Whatever's. They call it being born again.
Is why Jesus said to Nicodemus that being a teacher of Israel, he should of understood the words Jesus was teaching. Then Jesus introduces the new baptism which is of Spirit.
They received the new heart to obey obey the law yet with sacrificial blood to atone.
We have an an entirely new being of spiritual man or woman.
Again, Mikvah. The Jewish baptism of when a Jew turns to the Lord after a discretion of kind? Whatever's. They call it being born again.
Is why Jesus said to Nicodemus that being a teacher of Israel, he should of understood the words Jesus was teaching. Then Jesus introduces the new baptism which is of Spirit.
They received the new heart to obey obey the law yet with sacrificial blood to atone.
We have an an entirely new being of spiritual man or woman.