Can a person be a Christin yet deny the Bible?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#21
The old testament has gone out of style and many people just say they don't believe it, even when they profess belief in the new testament. The old testament contains ordinances that God used to train the people, ordinances that Christ crucified made obsolete. So they point to these instructions, forgetting that scripture tells us what to do about them, and say old testament scripture can't be believed.

If anyone professes belief in any ordinance that scripture has not made obsolete but is told of in the old testament, they are scolded and made fun of. They are thought of in the same way as old testament scripture is thought of.

Salvation is dependent on faith in Christ rather than in all scripture, this situation makes for poor Christians but not unsaved ones.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#22
no.

1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

if i show you from bible that God created everything and all produce after own kind. you say no its evolution my science this that. then you are answering in the flesh or dont even have spirit of God and arent saved. you refuse to believe what God teaches and go with secular worldly science falsely so called.

its good example i can think of. if i show you from bible that God will resurrect everyone you say no then you disagree with God's record and you arent saved. thats it.
I think healthy debate about scriptures and their meaning and application today is fine. Disagreement happens in every sphere of the human community and Christians are no exception.
Sit in on a Bible study once when there is an open discussion going about the meaning of a particular book in the Bible and you'll see.
Disagreement is fine. Disparagment or denial that the Bible is inspired is not.
I don't think a Christian necessarily needs a Bible in order to be considered a Christian. The Apostles of our Lord were walking about and leading many to find redemption and salvation just by words alone. No published text to carry on the journey spreading the good news.
God is Omnipresent. Everywhere at all times eternally. People were in Christ before the Bible came to be published. I don't think that changes due to time and the printing press. God speaks in many ways not just through the scriptures we are now privileged to have access to.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#23
Such a good question...

I mean it seems in direct opposition but what about those who read the bible but come up with so many different interpretations?

What about tribes of ppl who come to Jesus, without having the word?

I think finding the words of God, and consuming them brings joy and rejoicing for sure but ultimately who we are coming to is Him.

However, the word testifies to Him, so how can one dispute the thing that testifies to the One they receive?

and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe the one whom he has sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 5:38‭-‬40 ESV
Well put.
I would say such people as those you describe, tribes of people coming to Jesus without the word did in fact.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. :D (the Book of John chapter 1 verse 1)
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,165
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lawton ok
#26
Now we are getting somewhere. It's easy for someone that was raised to believe a pack of lies to adopt @MattforJesus[/B][/COLOR] type stance but there are those of us that were presented a false gospel first.

underlined in green was a typo. It's easy for someone that wasn't raised to believe a pack of lies... blue is correct. OOps!
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#27
I am not very familiar with that definition :unsure: I understand the word 'Christian' to mean the name given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers of Jesus. It was first used at Antioch. The names by which the disciples were known among themselves were "brethren," "the faithful," "elect," "saints," "believers." The word 'Christian' occurs three times in the NT: Acts 11:26 ; 26:28 ; 1 Peter 4:16 :)
Great information. :)
The Apostles used the term"brethren," to describe themselves, Other terms also like, faithful, saints, elect.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,321
17,843
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#28
Please indulge my question. Pleae share with me, what passage shares that Jesus said that?
I know this is O.T, but....

a. Jesus is obviously the one speaking in the O.T. as evidenced by the N.T.

b. What name could he possibly be referencing?

And the peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they shall be afraid of you

If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways then I will hear from heaven and will foegove their sin and heal their land

I ask again.....what name were they called that can be referenced as the name of the LORD.

Can anyone supply the referenced name given unto the LORD that the people are called by?

Jews...nope
Hebrews...nope
Jacob...nope
Joshua....nope
Abraham...nope
Israel....nope
_______.....nope
etc...
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#29
I know this is O.T, but....

a. Jesus is obviously the one speaking in the O.T. as evidenced by the N.T.

b. What name could he possibly be referencing?

And the peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they shall be afraid of you

If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways then I will hear from heaven and will foegove their sin and heal their land

I ask again.....what name were they called that can be referenced as the name of the LORD.

Can anyone supply the referenced name given unto the LORD that the people are called by?

Jews...nope
Hebrews...nope
Jacob...nope
Joshua....nope
Abraham...nope
Israel....nope
_______.....nope
etc...
Thank you. :)
I looked for the verse you cite, the Book of 2nd Chronicles chapter 7 and verse 14 and the Orthodox Jewish Bible version.
If Ami, which are called by Shmi, shall humble themselves, and daven, and seek my face, and turn from their derakhim hara’im (wicked ways), then will I hear from Shomayim, and will forgive their chattat, and will heal their land.

Shmi, 'Yeshua Shmi' ("Jesus is My name") . And all those names of God in the Old Testament. What name then would we interject into that passage from the Chronicles verse?

The Acts of the Apostles chapter 2 and verse 21 "And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"
 

morefaithrequired

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2019
2,194
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#30
note to self: avoid controversial threads like this if you want to keep sense of humour
 

jacob_g

Active member
Sep 1, 2019
315
139
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#31
There seems to be some that consider themselves to be christians yet deny the authority of the Bible. In never met anybody that called themselves Christians and doubted the authority and prophesies (besides some that never read it, like most catholics) in the Bible before I got here. I a person denies the Bible can they still be considered Christians?
Note; I didn't say saved.
NO!
 
M

Miri

Guest
#32
note to self: avoid controversial threads like this if you want to keep sense of humour
Controversy can go either way, either make you bitter and twisted, or lead you to better understanding and deeper faith.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
956
656
93
#33
I think it's fair to say that human words fail...THE WORD does not.

So I can understand someone not believing based off lingual barriers, but if they don't accept the work of the word and the spirit of the Lord, then we'd have some difficulties. Saying the the whole of scripture is defunct is a problem.

To me it would assert that the spirit of the Lord cannot overcome language which is error.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,875
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#34
There seems to be some that consider themselves to be christians yet deny the authority of the Bible. In never met anybody that called themselves Christians and doubted the authority and prophesies (besides some that never read it, like most catholics) in the Bible before I got here. I a person denies the Bible can they still be considered Christians?
Note; I didn't say saved.
Rather than worrying about what people's stance is on sola scriptura, I think we need to focus on getting people to read the Bible. Every day. Then the Word itself will convict. Or, if they still reject the Bible, or refuse to read it, I would say they are proclaiming that they are not Christians.

True some people are newly saved, and don't really know the Bible. Others have been taught wrong. True discipleship requires we do study to show ourself as a worker!

"Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

The solution is always to study the Bible. I am not God, not the judge. I would rather help someone to know Christ, snd disciple them, than be in charge of judging whether they are saved or not!
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,744
671
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#35
“Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The word or phrase or title Christian in this day and age as well as in the day meant a new testament believer. Not in word but in the story of Jesus being a special person.
Jesus asked Peter who do you say I am. Paul also points out that Jesus lived, died and rose again according to scripture.
You cannot have one without the other.
The father was very specific as to his description of Messiah. Jesus was very specific on who would enter the kingdom and how.
The title Christian is so random these days that all who believe in the story are called Christian regardless of there doctrine and theology.
Judas was labeled as a Christian (food for thought).
The label Christian points to a event and not the Christ. The word of God points to the Christ giving purpose and meaning to the event.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,165
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lawton ok
#36
Rather than worrying about what people's stance is on sola scriptura, I think we need to focus on getting people to read the Bible. Every day. Then the Word itself will convict. Or, if they still reject the Bible, or refuse to read it, I would say they are proclaiming that they are not Christians.

True some people are newly saved, and don't really know the Bible. Others have been taught wrong. True discipleship requires we do study to show ourself as a worker!

"Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the person dedicated to God may be capable and equipped for every good work." 2 Tim 3:16-17

The solution is always to study the Bible. I am not God, not the judge. I would rather help someone to know Christ, snd disciple them, than be in charge of judging whether they are saved or not!
I solidly agree in fact sometimes like in my case Salvation came first. I clearly in the OP stated I was not talking about being saved it was about people being called or calling themselves Christians. because some who don't call themselves Christians believe in Jesus and ask for his forgiveness while other who do call themselves Christians want to put us back under the law and believe in salvation by works, or worse, through sacraments, aren't really saved.

When I asked the Lord to help me I wasn't a firm believer in his word but he put the desire in my heart to study it. I've often been involved in studies in which several people with several different versions were compared against each other to under stand more and glean better understanding.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
353
59
28
#37
In never met anybody that called themselves Christians and doubted the authority and prophesies (besides some that never read it, like most catholics) in the Bible before I got here.
While I would agree with Magenta in regards to the first use of the word 'Christians' was at Antioch, however I would suggest that the term was given to distinguish between the believers and the disciples. It was the disciples, in particular Paul and Barnabas , who were first called Christians following their year long teaching of the Gospel at the church in Antioch.

As far as the question regarding who can be called a Christian, that depends upon whether they are saved by hope or whether they are saved by faith. The bottom line is that salvation is not a label, regardless of what your fold.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
7,165
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#38
While I would agree with Magenta in regards to the first use of the word 'Christians' was at Antioch, however I would suggest that the term was given to distinguish between the believers and the disciples. It was the disciples, in particular Paul and Barnabas , who were first called Christians following their year long teaching of the Gospel at the church in Antioch.

As far as the question regarding who can be called a Christian, that depends upon whether they are saved by hope or whether they are saved by faith. The bottom line is that salvation is not a label, regardless of what your fold.
Again, from the start. I said I wasn't talking about being saved. Some body else got the two terms, 'Christians and Saved,' mixed together in their heads. Ther are some unsaved that call themselves Christians and some saved that don't. The media calls LDS Christians and so might be saved. And in some cultures like 'Science' Christian has a negative connotation. So they stay quiet about it. I'm sorry to say.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,002
2,064
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#39
Again, from the start. I said I wasn't talking about being saved. Some body else got the two terms, 'Christians and Saved,' mixed together in their heads. Ther are some unsaved that call themselves Christians and some saved that don't. The media calls LDS Christians and so might be saved. And in some cultures like 'Science' Christian has a negative connotation. So they stay quiet about it. I'm sorry to say.
To be considered a Christian in the bible required that one accept Christ as Savior. The term today has been counterfeited to include many who are not saved. So the answer to the OP is yes and no. Those who call themselves Christian but are only pretenders will deny the bible. Those who actually possess Christ and are born again blood bought believers will always believe the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
8,030
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#40
I would say that a claim to saving faith in Jesus Christ and a denial of the reliability and authority of the Bible are incompatible but not impossible. That said, many people believe things that are mutually incompatible. Most of them don't examine those beliefs and so they get along in life just fine, generally. It's called cognitive dissonance.
I agree with THIS.

A Christian is someone who is born again. Someone that believes Jesus Christ is God in the Flesh, come to die for their sin, and who rose again after 3 days.

There may be some baby, or immature Christians who fit the above criteria, yet be confused that the Bible is not only THE Holy Spirit inspired Word of God, but also that NOTHING else is.