Can I change reality with my words?

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Jan 12, 2019
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c
so would you have like them to slit Jesus throat instead? like they did/do with lambs?

I can't stand it o_Oo_Oo_O

you need to do some historical research as to what actually happened with Jesus and how the Romans treated prisoners

I would bang my head on the nearest wall, but my husband just painted them :p
You really make very little of what Jesus did on the cross.

If Jesus's throat was slit like the lamb, the only thing that would do will be to redeem us from our sins. and declare us righteous in God's eyes. That would be great no doubt but Jesus on the cross accomplish more than just those.

With his stripes, we are healed of our physical diseases.

With his hanging on the cross, we are also redeemed from the curse of the law and the blessings of Abraham can now come to us.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I don't see that in scripture about having another nature. That's to be reckoned dead isn't it? And its our mind that needs renewed to truth.

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:14-25)

The NIV refers to this as the "sinful nature". Yes that is to be reckoned dead. However, the life given to us by Christ makes us aware that our flesh still wars with the Spirit. If this were not true then why would we continue to confess our sins to one another (James 5:16) after we are saved. The battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16-17). The Holy Spirit, will disciplined and convicted us if we begin to go astray. So what in us causes us to do what we don't want to do?

We (none of us, Jew included) was ever Spirit until Jesus rose again and we believe. Now we are Spiritual beings and produce fruit and works of the Spirit. Not flesh. Agree or not?

Agree - we are to produce fruit and do the work of the Spirit in accordance with God's good and perfect will, which will be different for each of us.

Not certain what you mean by "was ever Spirit" the same Holy Spirit that was in the Old Testament is the same Holy Spirit that is the new, the only difference is that:

The Spirit “came upon” Old Testament people such as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), Samson (Judges 14:6), Saul (1 Samuel 10:10), and David (1 Samuel 16:12-13). Moreover, the Spirit would not always remain with these individuals, but came upon them to perform certain tasks. Even David cried out to God not to take back His Holy Spirit (Psalms 51:11). Whereas, in the New Testament we are taught that the believer receives the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 16:19-20). Paul refers to this as the seal or permanent dwelling of the Holy Spirit, which guarantees our inheritance (Ephesians 1:13-14).

I had that picture of an umbililical cord from my belly to the heavens a long time ago, so I agree with your words infusion of blood. But, the sin nature? Temptation from thoughts? We aren't perfect until the final step that's true, but temptations are less in power as we grow in grace. Again, agree or not?

Agree - We will growing stronger in Christ by the washing of His word (Ephesian 5:26). Draw near to God and He will draw near to you (James 4:8); and where sin abounded, grace abounded much more (Romans 5:20).
This is the translation from Hebrew. I like it better than the Greek.

8 1 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua.

2 Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “torah” of sin and death.

3 For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature,

4so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants.

5 For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

6 Having one’s mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one’s mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom.

7 For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah —indeed, it cannot.

8 Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God. 9 But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit —provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn’t belong to him.

10 However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous.

11 And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you.

12 So then, brothers, we don’t owe a thing to our old nature that would require us to live according to our old nature.

13 For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.

14 All who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.

15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to bring you back again into fear; on the contrary, you received the Spirit, who makes us sons and by whose power we cry out, “Abba!” (that is, “Dear Father!”).

16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our own spirits that we are children of God;

17 and if we are children, then we are also heirs, heirs of God and joint-heirs with the Messiah —provided we are suffering with him in order also to be glorified with him.

I still think it's the mind that's the problem. We are dead to sin and death so daily we identify with Jesus and resurrection life. Don't lose your identity. :)

We are no longer flesh but Spirit if so be that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us. That's what I mean.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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If I want a car can I go to the dealership, place my hand on a car and say, I'm declaring that this car will be mine's RIGHT NOW!

The bible says:

there is power and life in the tongue.

If I tell the mountain to be cast in the sea, it will happen.

When the children of Israel were going through the wilderness, God came near their tents and heard them saying Moses took them in the wilderness to die. God said it will be done just as they have said. And only their children will see the promised land.

How do you guys feel on this matter?[/QUOTE

Norman Vincent Peale thought so... : (
 

glf1

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Jun 10, 2018
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In the Old Testament, and a physical covenant with physical blessings(although the spiritual law was still there, moral laws, laws of love, and the blood covered their sins, and then Jesus washed their sins away), and God dealing with Israel, caused many of the Jews to prosper in the physical sense, and king Solomon had riches, as well as the other kings, and land owners, and servants, and many cattle.

But in the New Testament with God dealing with the world(although a Gentile could still take hold of the Old Testament covenant), and a spiritual covenant with spiritual blessings, it is a different situation now in which we have to love the world, and care about their needs, food, and clothing, or wherever they have a need, and only go by our needs.

Which I know that a lot of people do not like that, or want to hear it that way, but that is the way it is in the New Testament.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material things): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Paul said if anybody preaches that God blesses them with money, and material things, for their wants to withdraw yourselves from them, having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, which love is the fulfilling of the law, and that is to care about their needs also if you have the means.

Anybody that goes by their wants falls victim to the love of money is the root of all evil, for they neglect the poor and needy, which Paul said they have erred from the faith.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James said if they do not care about the poor and needy then their faith is dead.

So Paul and James say the same thing which is only go by your needs, and help the poor and needy if possible.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith means nothing without love, which the Bible says faith works by love.

If we go by the word of faith, or prosperity Gospel, and live that way, then we lack love towards people, so how can we belong to a kingdom that is love if we do not love.

And many television evangelists are millionaires neglecting the poor and needy, and think they deserve it from God.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John said do not love in word, or in tongue, but in deed and in truth, charity, love in action.

So we cannot go by our wants, as some believe that God blesses them that way, but He only blesses us with our needs.

Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Some people pray wrongly for they pray for their wants, and excess of what they need.

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

When the Church started they sold all their possessions that were not a necessity, and distribution was made to the saints that had need, and they had all things common which it seems like it is saying they shared everything.

Television evangelists according to the truth of the Bible err concerning it, which is strange for they act as if they are well versed in the scriptures, and then believe that God gives them riches, and a mansion, and an expensive car, possibly a jet.

But God does not bless the preacher more than a common pew sitter, although some would want you to believe they do, which Joyce Meyer comes up.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

They make merchandise of the saints for they are covetous, and trying to get money from them for their own personal use to prosper themselves financially in the greed department.

Isa 56:11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
Isa 56:12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.

I know this is speaking of the priests, but it can also apply to the preachers, for they are in a position of leadership over the flock.

Rev 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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Dear Kelby, I have assurance, bcause the word says it. Who believes has Eternal life.
I cant find written in the scripture: who believes never will be sick again.

I am Working in Hospital and i find there People which have nothing to do with God, Coming in age of 80 First Time in Hospital, because of a minor Operation. They are mental and physical fit.
According some stating here they are Living a blessed God pleasant life. I know missionaries and Good believers which suffering of cancer for long Time, serving still God, and remain sick.
According some stating here,their Faith is to small, ore they so not pray ernestly .

And as I said, I find no teaching in the New Testament which supportes that believers Never become sick during their life.

If we as Gods Children became not already life through our Adoption in Gods Family.? Are we Not rich?
As christian i have life, before i was death.
Wolf, I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say that with enough faith we won't get sick. If anyone did, I didn't see it.
 

MJ1

Member
Jan 22, 2019
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This is the translation from Hebrew. I like it better than the Greek.



I still think it's the mind that's the problem. We are dead to sin and death so daily we identify with Jesus and resurrection life. Don't lose your identity. :)

We are no longer flesh but Spirit if so be that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us. That's what I mean.
Nice post, but I don't know if I would use the Hebrew translation, as I have entrusted the Holy Spirit to lead me to the scripture content I should use. The bibles I use are the NKJV, NIV, ESV, and NASB. From these four bibles I can find the scripture that give the most authentic meaning, and best fit. I also use various Greek and Hebrew Concordances and study books.

I believe when Paul is speaking about the flesh, he is also referring to the mind; the body as a whole. To say that were absolutely free of the flesh would be impossible while we still walk around in it. What we have gained is a Spirit that comes and dwells with us, He guides us and corrects us.

Great sharing with you....God Bless.
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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Wolf, I don't believe I've ever heard anyone say that with enough faith we won't get sick. If anyone did, I didn't see it.
Hey! stonesoffire... : )

Phil 2:27 "For indeed he was sick, nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, least I should have sorrow upon sorrow."

2 Tim 4:20 "Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick."

1 Tim 5:23 "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

1 Cor 11:29-32 "For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation unto himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world."

The Lord therefore uses sickness, even to death; in order to chasten us so that we should not be condemned with the world.

Or take Trophimus, who no doubt was prayed over by the apostle Paul and yet was still left sick in Miletum as Paul continued on to the next town. What this means is that even with the gift of healing in operation, not everyone gets healed or kept from a sickly death.

PTL!
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
You really make very little of what Jesus did on the cross.

If Jesus's throat was slit like the lamb, the only thing that would do will be to redeem us from our sins. and declare us righteous in God's eyes. That would be great no doubt but Jesus on the cross accomplish more than just those.

With his stripes, we are healed of our physical diseases.

With his hanging on the cross, we are also redeemed from the curse of the law and the blessings of Abraham can now come to us.

another ad hominem attack

keep em coming

you illustrate both your poor comprehension of what I write and your childish thinking

Jesus is the Lamb of God but He gave His life

it was not taken from Him
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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Nice post, but I don't know if I would use the Hebrew translation, as I have entrusted the Holy Spirit to lead me to the scripture content I should use. The bibles I use are the NKJV, NIV, ESV, and NASB. From these four bibles I can find the scripture that give the most authentic meaning, and best fit. I also use various Greek and Hebrew Concordances and study books.

I believe when Paul is speaking about the flesh, he is also referring to the mind; the body as a whole. To say that were absolutely free of the flesh would be impossible while we still walk around in it. What we have gained is a Spirit that comes and dwells with us, He guides us and corrects us.

Great sharing with you....God Bless.

Hey! MJ1... : )

Rom 8:6 NASB "For the mind set upon the flesh is death, but the mind set upon the Spirit is life and peace."

btw... The body is flesh, blood, and bone.
The mind is a soulish quality, along with the heart and our volition. imo
Our spiritual qualities are conscience, intuition, and the Spirit of God for those who are born again. imo

PTL!
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
Stones

tell me stones before I reply to your other post...

when you 'liked' Guojing post, were you agreeing that I make little of the cross

or

were you agreeing with the 'by his stripes we are healed'

see, I can discuss alot of things but when people stoop to the kind of judging done here by Guo I understand I am NOT talking to someone who actually knows how nasty a comment that is

those kinds of comments fly around here all the time and they indicate to me that the person slinging them is the one who has the shallow experience

and I mean that in the most sincere way
 
Jan 12, 2019
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another ad hominem attack

keep em coming

you illustrate both your poor comprehension of what I write and your childish thinking

Jesus is the Lamb of God but He gave His life

it was not taken from Him
I was disagreeing with your perspective on what Jesus has accomplished on the cross. Why do you call that ad hominem attack? Do you even know what term means?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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When people disagree with your interpretation and offer their own, you don't have judge them as "twisting scriptures' or believing in heresies. That borders to arrogance. A discussion forum like this is for all of us to present our view and learn from other people with differing views.

Quite true, we can often disagree over minor doctrines and be quite gracious about it.

However, there ARE such things as heresies...
and this is one of them.

..
 
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7seas,
I'm not endorsing any particular belief system but I'm curious about one thing in your statements. Are you suggesting that the faith (or missing faith) of the individual played no role in the healings in Jesus' ministry? Thanks.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
One way to reconcile this idea of mustard seed faith, is the concept of unbelief. It is possible to have faith and unbelief at the same time.

Jesus is correct when he said all it takes is mustard seed faith. But when the disciples ask him why they could not heal a man son who was foaming in the mouth, Jesus replied it was because of their unbelief.
 
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Quite true, we can often disagree over minor doctrines and be quite gracious about it.

However, there ARE such things as heresies...
and this is one of them.

..
So in your opinion, believing that healing from sickness and disease is part of what Jesus accomplished on the cross, is a heresy?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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So in your opinion, believing that healing from sickness and disease is part of what Jesus accomplished on the cross, is a heresy?
I think there have already been 21 pages here explaining the traditional, orthodox, biblical view on this.

If you want to ignore the Bible, and ignore some of the posters here who are genuinely biblical scholars... then go ahead.

...
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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I was disagreeing with your perspective on what Jesus has accomplished on the cross. Why do you call that ad hominem attack? Do you even know what term means?

Hey! Guojing...

You mentioned, what else did Jesus accomplish from upon the cross?

Heb 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot unto God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God."

The above verse makes it possible for sinners like us to have a clear conscience and to walk in obedience to the Spirit: 1 Jn 3: 21, 22 "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence toward God and whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."

Praise the Lord in the name of Jesus our God and King!
 
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Hey! Guojing...

You mentioned, what else did Jesus accomplish from upon the cross?

Heb 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot unto God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God."

The above verse makes it possible for sinners like us to have a clear conscience and to walk in obedience to the Spirit: 1 Jn 3: 21, 22 "Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence toward God and whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."

Praise the Lord in the name of Jesus our God and King!
Amen, it is most fascinating to me to learn that so many Christians here are already so against divine healing. I can imagine at least twice the uproar if we ever discuss financial prosperity too :)
 
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I think there have already been 21 pages here explaining the traditional, orthodox, biblical view on this.

If you want to ignore the Bible, and ignore some of the posters here who are genuinely biblical scholars... then go ahead.

...
I rather not ignore psalms 103 instead :)
 

glf1

Active member
Jun 10, 2018
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another ad hominem attack

keep em coming

you illustrate both your poor comprehension of what I write and your childish thinking

Jesus is the Lamb of God but He gave His life

it was not taken from Him

Hey! 7seasrekeyed... : )

Jn 10:18 "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father."

Praise Jesus our God both now and forever!