can some people give me their....

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willybob

Guest
#41
Martin Luther (1483-1546) “His attitude towards the Anabaptists and Jews was formed by a succession of progressiveness as he turned from tolerant by way of banishment to the death penalty for sedition. Luther told the princes and the nobility while referencing the peasants who he understood as being ignorant, rude, or unsophisticated person; a person of low social status, that it was lawful and just to slay at the first opportunity a rebellious person, "just as one must slay a mad dog…Let all who are
able, cut them down, slaughter and stab them, openly or in secret, and remember that there is nothing more poisonous, noxious and utterly devilish than a rebel... For we are come
upon such strange times that a prince may more easily win heaven by the shedding of blood than others by prayers
."
Keep in mind this man is hailed even today as a great man of the Christian faith. Luther and Calvin’s faith was that of the opposite of William Tyndale.

Martyrs Mirror: A Christian Book of Martyr Stories

Martin Luther signed a paper in 1536 that agreed that preachers who questioned basic Christian doctrines and continued to do so under penalty of death, ought to be executed by the state.(11) Regarding the Jews, Martin Luther advised that all their prayer books were to be taken from them and Jewish rabbis were forbidden to teach on pain of loss of life and limb.

"The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves"

"We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them."

"The blind Jews are truly stupid fools"

"Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people."

"eject them forever from this country"

"they are nothing but thieves and robbers"

"What then shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?"

"Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews"

"They are the real liars and bloodhounds"

"We are at fault for not slaying them."

"I shall give you my sincere advice: first to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."

"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."

"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

"Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them"

"If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs"

"If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham'."




Luther's doctrine is very subtle: He is famous for saying that you receive forgiveness of sins through "faith alone". First he miss-understands what faith is, then says that by believing the words spoken during the sacrament then one is forgiven of his sins. By the creed in his Little Catechism he taught that through the ceremony of the sacrament God pours out the forgiveness of sins. One might almost be tempted to believe, based on Luther’s words about “believing,” that he is saying that a person is forgiven, or justified, by faith, or simple intellectual belief (which is wrong anyway). Yet, the truth is revealed through examination of context: by craftily circumventing repentance Luther is saying that your sins are forgiven IN the religious order of the sacrament, (“Through these words we receive forgiveness of sins, life and salvation in this sacrament”...These words are the main thing in the sacrament ceremony. Based on Luther’s statement that “we are saved by faith alone" would be useless were it not for the sacrament ceremony itself. Therefore, Luther does not really believe that it is your faith, your belief alone that is important, but the sacrament itself. THIS SACRAMENTCEREMONY. Ironically this sacrament ceremony is of a works based doctrine, and is exactly what Paul meant by preaching not of works lest any man should boast. In reality Luther is teaching against what he professes to believe, he is actually teaching faith plus religious works, and the works he is preaching are the kind of works the apostle Paul so strongly opposed, that being of "religious works".


Luther rejects the apostolic authority of the epistle of James. ``faith without works is dead.” Luther`s reason is that he believed it to be in opposition to the apostle Paul by claiming it supports justification to works. Luther said: “This defect proves that the epistle of James is not of apostolic provenance.” Luther read the entire NT in the light of his miss-understood Pauline message that the just shall live by faith and not by works of the law. “His [James’] authority is not great enough to cause me to abandon the doctrine of faith and to deviate from the authority of the other apostles and the entire Scripture” (quoted in Althaus 81). Then he adds, at the very end of the Preface, “In comparison with these, the epistle of St. James is an epistle full of straw, because it contains nothing evangelical.” Once Luther remarked that he would give his doctor’s degree to anyone who could reconcile James and Paul (Bainton 259). What he didn’t know is that the teaching of faith found in the epistle of James was in fact the same as Paul’s teaching of faith. Luther placed the books of Hebrews, James, and Jude in a subordinate position. The result of this flawed approach of miss- interpreting James and other NT books in the light of his miss-understanding of Paul writings creating a false hierarchy of values in the NT. The standard of this criticism was the same as his general principle of interpretation: the doctrine of justification by faith alone, because he did not understand the biblical meaning of the word “faith”. This was the fundamental weakness and ultimate fallacy of Luther’s doctrine which was rooted in the monster of all lies “born in sin”. Luther acknowledged that God had revealed Himself in nature, by Christ’s suffering, God revealed Himself as a God who loved men and so desired to show mercy to them (when the Son of man is lifted up HE will draw all men to HIM), but he did not think this led people to God, because he, like Augustine and Calvin, believed in the fallacy that mankind was in such a total depraved state in being alienated from God, that man could not come to know God by diligently seeking HIM as did Cornelius. Christ's works must be at work in the believer daily {a living faith}. The false doctrine of "faith alone" requires only one witness, therefore lacking a second witness “deeds” of obedience to God worthy of repentance, thus without good works of obedience no life of Christ is dwelling therein, {Jesus Christ “IS” come in the flesh 1 John 4-2}. By having one witness only, “faith alone”, produces no fear of God, thus no searching out of their own salvation with "fear and trembling". ? Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates.

Conclusion: Either you accept the scriptures as the inspired word of God by rightly dividing the word of truth, a good workman, seeking to understand the word as one harmonious truth, or you can do as Luther did and place a particular interpretation upon the scripture starting with pre-conceived ideas. The apostle Peter said that Paul’s writings were sometime hard to understand and that some would wrestle with them to their own destruction. Therefore, Luther himself confused, but at times made an attempt to reconcile the writings of Paul and James: “Faith is a living, restless thing. It cannot be inoperative. We are not saved by works; but if there be no works, there must be something amiss with faith” (Bainton 259).

Luther, the most prominent of the Protestant reformers, in his commentary on the book of Galatians falsely taught that the prophets of the OT had foretold “that Christ should become the greatest transgressor, murderer, adulterer, thief, rebel, and blasphemer that ever was or could be in the world.” He alleged that the Lord lost his innocence at Calvary, and died as a sinful being (quoted in Barnes, 1955. 334-335; also available online).

Generally speaking; those who hold to this view of “imputed sin” also contend that in the process the “righteousness of Christ” is somehow mystically imputed or (transferred) to the pardoned sinner. Neither of these two beliefs is correct. All of mankind suffers the consequence of Adam’s sin (Romans. 5:12). However not the guilt or inheritance of Adams sin as many false teachers would allege. And as a result of Christ’s atoning death, and our obedience to Him (Romans. 6:17-18), we are “reckoned”, reconciled back to God as righteous before HIM (Romans. 4:5). In a manner of speaking, his perfect sacrifice was credited to our account through our faith and obedience, the bible calls these “the worthy”.

No personal righteousness of Christ is transferred to us directly. Though Christ was free from sin, He underwent the punishment of death, which is the consequence of being born into a world of sin, so that His natural body was born into a world of death. Thus Christ, God in the flesh, being also the Son of man, inherited the consequences of Adams’ sin, but in HIM there was no sin. He was “a lamb without blemish and without spot” (1 Peter 1:19). In Peter’s epistle, that the Savior “bore our sins” (1 Pet. 2:24), does not in any way mean that the Lord carried the “guilt” of mankind’s sin in his temporal body personally. But rather the apostle Peter meant the term “sins” conveyed in the sense of the penalty of sin that was justly due to us. The apostle Paul wrote in Hebrews declaring that Christ will “appear a second time, apart from sin” (Hebrews9:28). This does not in any sense imply that Christ, at the time of his death, somehow became a “sinful” person by assuming the guilt of all of mankind. The book of Hebrews 4-15 declares that the Savior was “without sin”. Thus, the meaning of 9:28 can only mean that when Christ comes again, it will not be to provide a redemptive plan for sin, because His office as REDEEMER will have been completed, and the kingdom will be delivered up to God.(1 Corinthians 15:24) The possibility of reconciliation for the believer was achieved by HIS first coming; HIS second coming will be one of judgment (verse. 27).


Martin Luther also helped introduced the invention of eternal security. Here are some OSAS quotes from Luther.

"Your sin cannot cast you into hell" "No sin can harm me"
"Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness"

"No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day."

"Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to."

"The imputation of righteousness we need very much, because we are far from perfect. As long as we have this body, sin will dwell in our flesh. Then, too, we sometimes drive away the Holy Spirit; we fall into sin, like Peter, David, and other holy men. Nevertheless we may always take recourse to this fact, that our sins are covered, and that God will not lay them to our charge. Sin is not held against us for Christ's sake."


Luther also believed in the Reformation lie that God wills everything both good and evil..amd all man can do is choose to do evil....from his book bondage of the will

“God effects and moves and implements all things in a necessary infallible course”
“This is the highest degree of faith-to believe that e is merciful, the very One who saves so few and damns so many. To believe that He is just, the One who is according to His own will, also makes us necessarily damnable”

Augustine, Luther, and Calvin are the 3 kingpins of apostate christianity, all 3 were heavily influenced by Platonist thought.
 
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willybob

Guest
#42
I would call myself a Christian. That is I am a believer in my savior Jesus Christ. I don't like the word denominations. To me it separates all of us. I look forward to the day when HE will put us all straight.

your right sir...Paul; warned of this and called it carnal...denominations actually means "lets make a name for ourselves" That's what they said in Gen 11, and the reason they built the Tower of Babel
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
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#43
Luther's doctrine is very subtle....<<<< reminds me of something :)
 
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willybob

Guest
#44
Luther's doctrine is very subtle....<<<< reminds me of something :)
no great wonder, he preached the 6000 year old lie that you can sin and surely not die...I think it was the Serpent that introduced that lie..ouch!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,885
26,046
113
#45
no great wonder, he preached the 6000 year old lie that you can sin and surely not die...I think it was the Serpent that introduced that lie..ouch!
Probably the majority of Christians tout the lie at the heart of the fall of all creation.
 
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Miri

Guest
#46
Just wanted to add that Pentecostal and charismatic are two different
things.

I go to a Pentecostal church, it believes the gifts of the Holy Spirit have not ceased
and are for today and it's model is the early church.

Unfortunately most think Pentecostal and charismatic are the same, they are not.
You won't see people barking like a dog, doing cartwheels and a chaotic service in my
church. The services are very orderly but open to the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

So yes people put their hands in the air in worship, people speak in tongues.
Some people dance - well sort of lol. One pensioner healed of bowel cancer
regular dances before the Lord in the services for example.
At times people get encouraging words and prophecy but they have to speak to the
leadership and run things by them first. Healings take place, there is a prayer team
at the end of services so people can be prayed for.

My church however is not a free for all or an unstrained mess where anything goes.
I believe that is the difference between Pentecostal and charismatic.
 
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Miri

Guest
#47
Ps I don't hold to any particular denomination, I just happen to go to
a Pentecostal church. I'm not Pentecostal I'm a Christian.
 
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missy2014

Guest
#48
Love it^ I feel the same
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#49
Jesus said in his father's house there are many mansions. Is that because he's expecting many people or many denominations?
Personally I'm looking for the all inclusive one.

Shhhhhhh if we find out it's because of the many denominations don't tell the Baptist they think they're the only ones. ;)
 
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