Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

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Will the nonelect ever be born-again?

  • The nonelect can be born-again.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
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Probably new Israel wasn't the best term to use but I was trying to differentiate between it and earthly Israel. I probably should
have used true Israel or Israel of God instead.
Kind of hate to say this but I think we are just too far apart in our fundamental beliefs/perceptions/understanding of the gospel
to be able to reconcile those differences. I think we would just end up going around in circles over a long period of time, and in the end, neither of us would change our POV anyway, so it doesn't seem worth our time or effort beating our heads against the wall. In ending, I would just suggest that you read the verses I posted because I think they should tie everything together and answer most of your questions. If they do and should you feel like continuing, let me know and we can begin from there.
I refer people to the video below rather than getting a sore head.

God's Chosen People, The Children Of Promise, The Israel Of God And Romans Chapter Eleven - 1/16/22
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Thank you, maxamir, for posting - an excellent video - it contains in great detail a wealth of incontrovertible information - he
lays it all out perfectly from the Bible alone - aspects that I had not before considered. I'm about halfway through and looking forward to finishing it up a little later.
The only question I have is that when Paster Baldwin says that we're saved by faith IN Christ - my belief is that we are saved by
the faith OF Christ - by Christ's faith, that is, not ours - ours imputed from His -although he did not elaborate on that aspect (at least so far), so I am unsure as to what his belief actually is.
At any rate, a really great video and one that I would definitely recommend and encourage to anyone who
has any misunderstanding as to who/what eternal Israel represents.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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i’m trying to figure out what you mean when you say a “new israel” because the first thing that comes to my mind is that you’re insinuating that God pulled an end around on Abraham when he made the promises to him. Anrahsm offered Isaac on that alter in faith that his seed, sperm from his loins would become many nations and God promised this even when he divorced them that he would keep them and sow them in many places which he did over the course of 600 plus years. The greco roman empire was built with the Israelites scattered to the north and the west of palestine. This is where Paul took the gospel and i used James 1 in my earlier post to demonstrate that he was writing to those scattered tribes only.

you are correct citing dueteronomy in reference to the divorced wife and the law against taking her as a wife again however Jesus Christ, the husband, gave his life for them and by doing this he did not break his own law…. consider what Paul mentions in his epistle to the romans

ROMANS 7:1-3
“Or do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.b 3Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.”

God did not break his own law in death he freed adulterous Israel and after they are regathered from all the nations in which they are scattered our king Jesus Christ in his glory will return destroying Edom forever and set up the kingdom that will be established forever. He will again take Israel as His bride and in this we have to accept that Jesus is righteous and keeps his own laws but his righteousness exceeds outside of the law.

i really encourage you to take time and study history, i have notes that i’m going to share with you in hopes that it will edify, the seed of Jacob that the 12 tribes sprang from has always been a people and still is, i can’t imagine our faith in God and his word devoid of those promises and that people.

in reference to what you cited in Revelation
The phrase “all nations” here could only be a reference to all of the nations of the Adamic οἰκουμένη – that part of the world over which Rome has ruled and which will suffer this tribulation. While the hundred and forty-four thousand are certainly all of Israel, this innumerable multitude must also all be of the children of Israel, as only Israel had ever had these promises of salvation. The phrase “all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues” must concur with the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that their seed would become innumerable and from it would come many nations which would then inherit the world.

ROMANS 4:16-22
“16 Therefore from of the faith, that in accordance with favor, then the promise is to be certain to all of the offspring, not to that of the law only, but also to that of the faith of Abraham [the faith of Abraham being what Abraham had believed], who is father of us all; 17 (just as it is written, ‘That a father of many nations I have made you,’) before Yahweh whom he trusted, who raises the dead to life, and calls things not existing as existing; 18 who contrary to expectation, in expectation believed, for which he would become a father of many nations according to the declaration, 'Thus your offspring will be:' 19 and he not being weak in the faith, nor having considered his own body by this time being dead, being about a hundred years old, and the deadness of the womb of Sarah, 20 but at the promise of Yahweh he did not doubt in disbelief, rather he was strengthened in faith, giving honor to Yahweh, 21 and having full satisfaction that what He has promised, He is also capable of doing; 22 for that reason also 'it was accounted to him for righteousness.'”

countless christians consider themselves approved because they have faith like abraham, however, mostly all of them don’t believe what abraham believed and stand in disagreement contending that “seed doesn’t mean offspring “ or “spiritual israel” or even what you said in your post “new israel” if you can’t identify the children of israel yesterday or today then your saying that God has failed which is a lie. i look forward to continuing our discussion🙏🙏🙏 praise YHWH
Posted by maximar. No need to reply.

God's Chosen People, The Children Of Promise, The Israel Of God And Romans Chapter Eleven - 1/16/22
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,649
566
113
countless christians consider themselves approved because they have faith like abraham, however, mostly all of them don’t believe what abraham believed and stand in disagreement contending that “seed doesn’t mean offspring “ or “spiritual israel” or even what you said in your post “new israel” if you can’t identify the children of israel yesterday or today then your saying that God has failed which is a lie. i look forward to continuing our discussion🙏🙏🙏 praise YHWH
Sorry - just notice a typo. It should have been maxamir, not maxamar. Sorry maxamir - not enough coffee yet.
 

maxamir

Active member
Mar 8, 2024
696
86
28
Thank you, maxamir, for posting - an excellent video - it contains in great detail a wealth of incontrovertible information - he
lays it all out perfectly from the Bible alone - aspects that I had not before considered. I'm about halfway through and looking forward to finishing it up a little later.
The only question I have is that when Paster Baldwin says that we're saved by faith IN Christ - my belief is that we are saved by
the faith OF Christ - by Christ's faith, that is, not ours - ours imputed from His -although he did not elaborate on that aspect (at least so far), so I am unsure as to what his belief actually is.
At any rate, a really great video and one that I would definitely recommend and encourage to anyone who
has any misunderstanding as to who/what eternal Israel represents.
I am glad you were edified by the video as I also was. Unfortunately, Chuck Baldwin like so many today put an emphasis on a person's faith rather than faith being a gift of grace from God. I do not agree with him on all things but believe what he says in the video as being biblically correct.