Can the sinner who repents->believes-> gets saved... STOP sinning in life ?

[GreenNnice]

Some verses for nay to that thread title answer .

Sorry, those opposed, I have not one 'yea' verse for you. Will I ever? Nay.

Paul speaking to the Romans:

Romans 7:19-20 King James Version (KJV)

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
-,,,,,,-
Sigh, we are such sinful beasts , not knowing our left hand from our right, so to speak.

We probably wouldn't even know what happened (until.it was too late) if sin creeped up to us and bit us with a nasty bite in butt.

Fear not, God will heal your butt , might take some time for the wound to heal, and make sure you clean it nightly for several days, until no redness shows and, note, that, for some, with weaker immune systems this process may take a bit longer . Might even need neosporin, or, prescription antibiotics, to heal sin's bite. But, fear not, don't you worry, brother nor sister, your prayers and your faith to your God will make it all turn out well


It is well.
It is well.

With my soul.
With my soul.

It is well. It IS WELL, with my sooooooooul

 

[Skinski7]

A very popular verse used to support the notion that "I cannot stop sinning."

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

A few verses before...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

If you are carnal and sold under sin then verses 19 and 20 apply to you.

Those who are carnal and sold under sin need deliverance from the body of death.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?



Deliverance lies in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Which is only found through dying with Christ and being raised up with Him by the power of God.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

We are set free from sin through having our old man crucified with Him, the body of sin is destroyed, and God raises us up by His power to newness of life. It is through the power of the living God that we walk in victory over sin, no longer carnal and sold under sin.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

We are quickened together with Christ and our sins are forgiven when we are raised up.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Repentance and conversion is the same thing as dying with Christ and having the old man crucified. Acts 3:19 is speaking of the same thing as Col 2:11-15 and Rom 6:4-7.

It is the affections and lusts that we crucify in repentance.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

We have to believe this by faith to be true.

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And live accordingly.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Grace is the power of God to escape the corruption that is through lust.

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Again it is the law of the Spiritof life in Jesus Christ that sets us free.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


You see when you serve sin you are in bondage to sin. You are sins slave. Jesus sets us free from sin. The Son of God abides forever.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Here is the scripture you will never see quoted in church.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

That above scripture means exactly what it says and depicts how a true Christian lives.

You cease from sin when you arm yourself with the mind of Christ and suffer in the flesh. You are suffering in the flesh because you have crucified the old man in order that you may be raised up by the power of God. Crucifying the old man is a painful thing because it does not want to die, the corruption that is in the world through lust is a powerful thing. Jesus Christ is more powerful and will deliver anyone from bondage.

You have to believe it though. You have to do it. You have to live it.



This package gospel nonsense where you just trust in Jesus while you remain carnal and sold under sin will send you strait to hell. God gives us everything we need to overcome sin. Do we believe God at His word or are we going to deny Him?

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Those who truly believe in Jesus Christ and truly believe what he taught will do what He says because they know it is the way of life. They will be empowered by God and they will keep themselves by His Spirit. They are not sinning.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Life is in walking after the Spirit, not being carnal and sold under sin.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.



Praise God for sending Jesus Christ.

 

[Tommy4Christ]

The power of the Gospel is to free man from the bondages of sin and disobedience, to return to favor with God.

To walk in newness of life, is to crucify the old man once and for all in repentance, touching the blood of Christ, who was a sinless spotless sin offering, to those who repent and seek His mercy.

To say Paul was walking in the light and darkness at the same time is false, and a lie from the pit, Romans ch 6 and ch 8 disprove that well!

I like this verse that tells me what hapens to the divided carnal mind:

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

And I dont think he means physical death, but spiritual death, read the whole chapter in context!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The power of the Gospel is to free man from the bondages of sin and disobedience, to return to favor with God.

To walk in newness of life, is to crucify the old man once and for all in repentance, touching the blood of Christ, who was a sinless spotless sin offering, to those who repent and seek His mercy.

To say Paul was walking in the light and darkness at the same time is false, and a lie from the pit, Romans ch 6 and ch 8 disprove that well!

I like this verse that tells me what hapens to the divided carnal mind:

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

And I dont think he means physical death, but spiritual death, read the whole chapter in context!!

two verses destroys both your and your friends notions,

Romans 8:10
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

How can the body be dead due to sin, if we are sinless as you claim we can be? while at the same time, our spirit be alive because of Christ?

then lets not forget 1 John 1: 8, If we say we have no sin (we are or can be sinless) we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us.

Who are the decieved, but those who claim one can be sinless.

 

[cfultz3]

two verses destroys both your and your friends notions,

Romans 8:10
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

How can the body be dead due to sin, if we are sinless as you claim we can be? while at the same time, our spirit be alive because of Christ?

then lets not forget 1 John 1: 8, If we say we have no sin (we are or can be sinless) we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us.

Who are the decieved, but those who claim one can be sinless.

I have asked the same about being sinless, yet he does not respond. Perhaps his teacher has forbidden it. I think I have about 20 questions out there for him, but it has been that Skinski has answered for him in some.

 

[Skinski7]

two verses destroys both your and your friends notions,

Romans 8:10
If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

How can the body be dead due to sin, if we are sinless as you claim we can be? while at the same time, our spirit be alive because of Christ?

then lets not forget 1 John 1: 8, If we say we have no sin (we are or can be sinless) we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us.

Who are the decieved, but those who claim one can be sinless.

Again you take one verse and use it to explain away a plethora of scripture.

What are you denying? That those in Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires? Are you denying that?

Or are you denying that those who suffer with Christ cease from sin? Is that the one you are saying is wrong?

Or how about not yielding your members to sin? Is that the verse above you think is incorrect?

What are you actually denying? You say "you are wrong" then post a single verse as if that undoes everything else the Bible says.

So let's look at what you posted...

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The body is indeed dead because of sin. Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. The wages of sin is death. The Spirit is life because of righteousness indeed.

Righteousness leads to holiness which leads to eternal life.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

All achieved through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

We "walk" after the Spirit not yielding to the flesh because our mortal bodies have been quickened.. Yielding to the flesh is death. Christ is in us if we have been raised up by the Spirit through the baptism of repentance where the old man is crucified and the body of sin is destroyed (Rom 6:4-7).

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


I think your objection comes down to the fact that you believe you can keep sinning and not surely die. You believe that you do not have to crucify your old man in repentance. You want a salvation message where you do not have to do that.

Salvation to you is an abstract concept which is not connected to how you live. Salvation to me is an actual present reality of living in the presence of Jesus Christ within me.



I guess Peter was deceived because he claimed that you can cease from sin.

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

I suppose John was deceived because he wrote that those who are born of God do not sin.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.




1Joh 1:8 is a verse about repentance. You cannot walk in the light unless you confess your sin before God. If you confess your sin then He will cleanse you from all unrigheousness.

John wrote those things so that you don't sin.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

He then said IF you sin that you have an advocate. He did not say WHEN you sin.


All you have are snippets of scripture which you rip out of context to support your abstract salvation message.

 

[Skinski7]

I have asked the same about being sinless, yet he does not respond. Perhaps his teacher has forbidden it. I think I have about 20 questions out there for him, but it has been that Skinski has answered for him in some.

I have answered questions you have asked but you ignore what I write and keep saying the same thing.

You have clearly told me that you have not crucified your flesh but are trying to and thus you are still walking in carnality.

The carnal mind is an enemy of God and is not subject to God nor can it understand the things of God. It doesn't matter what I say to you, you will always argue in favour of being able to willfully commit sin and still be right with God. You are free to believe that if you like, it is not my purpose to convince you otherwise.

Salvation to you is an abstract concept just as it is with Eternally. You separate the deeds of the body from the state of the soul just like the gnostics did.

You prefer the philosophy of Augustine over the plain words of Jesus Christ. You may not be aware of it but that is the truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have answered questions you have asked but you ignore what I write and keep saying the same thing.

You have clearly told me that you have not crucified your flesh but are trying to and thus you are still walking in carnality.

The carnal mind is an enemy of God and is not subject to God nor can it understand the things of God. It doesn't matter what I say to you, you will always argue in favour of being able to willfully commit sin and still be right with God. You are free to believe that if you like, it is not my purpose to convince you otherwise.

Salvation to you is an abstract concept just as it is with Eternally. You separate the deeds of the body from the state of the soul just like the gnostics did.

You prefer the philosophy of Augustine over the plain words of Jesus Christ. You may not be aware of it but that is the truth.

And you my friend, are just like the pharisee, who think he can by his own willpower and work do what God himself says no one can do. You think you are righteous by your own deeds, and your own conforming to God.

Just because we understand only God can conform us to his image, you are angry. But hey, thats ok. The pharisees were angry too.

And I am only going to say this one more time. I am not a licentious believer. You are slandering me by telling a lie about me, and in doing so you have beared false witness against me. You should read the ten commandments one more time, for if you do, well you get the point. SIn is sin. You who claims sinless are sinning every time you say a slanderous word against my belief which is not true.

if your not going to try to understand what I believe, Don't bother talking anymore. Because all you do every time you slander me with a false truth is dig yourself deeper into sin.

 

[cfultz3]

I have answered questions you have asked but you ignore what I write and keep saying the same thing.

You have clearly told me that you have not crucified your flesh but are trying to and thus you are still walking in carnality.

The carnal mind is an enemy of God and is not subject to God nor can it understand the things of God. It doesn't matter what I say to you, you will always argue in favour of being able to willfully commit sin and still be right with God. You are free to believe that if you like, it is not my purpose to convince you otherwise.

Salvation to you is an abstract concept just as it is with Eternally. You separate the deeds of the body from the state of the soul just like the gnostics did.

You prefer the philosophy of Augustine over the plain words of Jesus Christ. You may not be aware of it but that is the truth.

If you read what I said, then it would be clear I was talking about Tommy.

 

[cfultz3]

I have answered questions you have asked but you ignore what I write and keep saying the same thing.

Well, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. But seriously, I maintain that the Truth is Truth and when I speak it, I will, apparently, keep saying the same thing.

 

[cfultz3]

Salvation to you is an abstract concept...

So that I know what you mean, would you care to give me examples of my abstract concepts of salvation?

 

[cfultz3]

It doesn't matter what I say to you, you will always argue in favour of being able to willfully commit sin and still be right with God.

And you can continue to deny that the definition of sin is sin. Grace has to be given its due place in God's salvational plan. Salvation is through faith, salvation cannot be found in your works.

Psa 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Psa 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

 

[cfultz3]

Is it possible for a Christian to sin? The Bible bears witness to the fact a Christian is able to sin. Heb. 12:6-7 states: "For whom the Lord loves He disciplines and flogs every son whom He receives. If you endure discipline, then God deals with you as with sons. For what son is he whom the father chastened not? If ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards and not sons."


1) Why would the Lord chastise someone unless they have sinned, and unless they are a son?


2) Why would he whip you like a son, unless you have sinned?


3) Those who say that we are to be sinless in order to receive salvation should be leary in telling people, "I do not sin", when in fact, Scriptures tells us that the one who say they are without sin are deceived and the Truth is not in them. (1Jn 1:8) And if you are without sin, then there is no need to be disciplined. And if you are not disciplined by God, then you are fatherless and not a son.
　
Paul writes in I Cor. 11:30-32: "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you and many sleep, for if we judge ourselves we should not be judged, but when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world." Paul, speaking of himself, showed he was capable of being lifted up with pride; hence there was given to him a thorn in the flesh - some physical affliction- 2 Cor. 12:7.


1) Why would we judge ourselves if we have no sins?


2) Again why would we be judged by the Lord if there is no sin? It is apparent that the Lord chastises us so that we are not condemned with the world.


3) Pride is a sin and even Paul had to struggle with his sin of pride.

 

[GreenNnice]

Doesn't 'cleansed' mean something still needs cleaning every once in awhile ?

We can try so hard to keep the dirt off our clothes but, reality, says, eventually, we will have to leave our glass house and get them dirty.

Is this a good analogy for perfect-thinking/being uncarnal (Spirit born, flesh not served no more) man's sin?

Try as we might, we still need to figure on washing our sin (routinely?) off, walking/living in the Spirit?

Even though sinful man becomes believer and is 'cleansed by the blood of The Lamb (Jesus),' this is not a earthly cleansing is it? This is a spiritual, eternal cleansing, no?

What does the verse of 1 John 3:10 mean to ”practice righteuosness” regarding sin, and, doesn't The word ”practice” convey imperfection, like cliche ”practice makes perfect?”

If Christ says that we are created for ”His workmanship,” doesn't that mean we're going to be carved, or, for potter analogy, one actually in scripture, the Potter shapes, molds, forms His clay (believers)? Sin needs to be flicked out of the pot we are making or it will adulterate the final product?
'Course,, doing 'that' takes work.

Can uncarnal man be so clean , can the Holy Spirit correct uncarnal man in his sins so that uncarnal man is convicted (stopped from doing) of his sins before the sin(s) can even selfishly/greedily/maliciously/gluttonously/starvingly/uproariously , etc. become full-fledged sin, and, is fledgling sin not counted as unrighteusness ?

Can uncarnal man's sins be degenerated before they are even generated?

 

[Skinski7]

I'll break it down.


Neoplatonism separates the state of the soul from the deeds of the body, although the deeds done in the body can have an influence on the soul, the deeds of the body in themselves to not bear witness of the soul. The ascetics under this system would practice virtue in order to attain a higher elevation of the soul. Under this philosophy the material world is viewed as corrupt apart from the spiritual plain.

The gnosticism that grew out of this philosophy taught that sin was a substance of the flesh. Thus it could be implied that one could be walking in corruption while their soul remained undefiled. The gnostics taught that salvation was through knowledge or gnosis.

The apostle John was refuting these philosophies in his first epistle and that is why he would allude to the walk of a Christian. John denied that one could be walking in corruption and claim they were in the light.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John was clearly teaching that the deeds done in the body are a reflection of the state of the soul. One cannot claim to be pure and yet living in filth.

When I speak of salvation as an "abstract concept" this I am alluding to how the gnostics taught salvation. Salvation to them was an abstract concept based upon obtaining a certain knowledge and it was completely distinct as to how one chose to live.

The gnostics taught that the flesh was inherently evil, sin was some sort of substance, and that this substance was passed down genetically.

This philosophy began to infiltrate church teaching in the 2nd and third centuries but it was only sporadic. In the 4th century a man called Augustine came along who was a prolific writer and who was also highly influential due to him being appointed as a professor of rhetoric at a school in Milan when he was only 30 years old. Augustine was schooled in his youth in Neoplatonism and was also, for nine years, at student of the sect of the Manichaeans which was a gnostic cult.

When Manichaeanism was outlawed Augustine converted to the Catholic faith. He approached the Bible from a dualist perspective due to his previous experiences with Neoplatonism and Manichaeism. While he would speak against the Manichaean's in his confessions he never was able rid himself of their dualist view.

Thus when he came across Romans chapter 5 and Hebrews chapter 7 he interpreted it in light of his gnostic philosophy. He saw sin as a substance of the flesh and viewed concupiscence as evidence of this substance.

This underlying premise would feed into his understanding of predestination and election, faith and grace.

Under this philosophy actual sin is necessitated by the inborn sin nature and thus there is no actual free will. If you read Martin Luther's writings (especially Bondage of the Will) you will see he built off the same foundation. Martin Luther was an Augustinian monk and was heavily influence by the writings of Augustine.

When you believe that sin is some sort of substance in the flesh it redefines repentance because it is impossible to forsake a nature.

In the Bible sin is a choice and is rooted in the will of those who do it. In gnostic philosophy actual sin is a symptom of the indwelling sin present in the flesh at birth.

Ever since the 4th century the church system has held to the latter view.

This latter view forces salvation to be viewed in an abstract sense because the sin cannot stop because it is necessitated by the nature. Thus salvation cannot be related to the stopping of sin.

This is why Romans chapter 6 is taught in a positional sense. It is taught as abstract. Being crucified with Christ is an abstract concept where you are cloaked by Jesus while you still live in sin. The deeds of the body have been disconnected from the state of the soul.

Modern Christianity is gnostic philosophy dressed up with Christian terminology. Now you don't have to believe that, you can call me a liar, angry, or whatever your want. It won't change the facts. If you dig into church history you will clearly see that what I am saying is true. You will see that what Augustine taught is in total contradiction to what the early church taught.

The seminaries today hold Augustine in very high regard.

In my opinion, Augustine would have to be the greatest heretic that ever lived. It was through him and his damnable heresy of original sin that multitudes of people have been diverted from the true Gospel message.

Real salvation is not simply being forgiven for your past sins through the blood of Jesus Christ. Real salvation also has to do with being set free from the bondage of sin which is rooted in being enslaved to the passions and desires of the flesh. Real salvation is a present state of walking in the light in communion with God. The heart is pure and is not defiled by any rebellion to God whatsoever. It is done by the power of God and it is a beautiful thing. Praise God.

Those that are in Christ have been truly set free from their lusts and no longer yield to them. Sure they are tempted but they overcome temptation, and as time goes we partake in the divine nature more and more.


All this is why I can quote scriptures like this...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

And this...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Any no-one will address them. I can also easily elaborate on those scriptures connecting them to vast amounts of other scripture and no-one will address directly what I am saying either. It is the invisible Gospel to those who defend the continuation of sin.

They will just call me names, accuse me of lying, accuse me of saying you can save yourself or have victory over sin apart from God, or call me a legalist or whatever else. Call me all the names you want, the truth is the truth. The truth is very clear to those who really want it.


Dig deep and read your Bibles.

 

[cfultz3]

Skinski,

While you are breaking things down for us, mind breaking down the Scripture in post 13

 

[Tombo]

I'd still like to know if being divorced or seperated from one's spouse constitutes remaining in a known sin, and therfore makes one unsaved? Anyone here can answer. Our Lord did say that "what God has joined together, let not man seperate." So that is viloating God's law. Is one unsaved as long as they're seperated from their spouse?
I'm just curious since this is a question about "what we do" to become saved, and "being sinlesss."
God bless.

Tom

 

[Tombo]

Hmmmm, deafing silence on this question.

Tom

 

[Skinski7]

Is it possible for a Christian to sin?

Absolutely it is possible for a Christian to sin. A Christian should never think to highly of themselves lest they fall and we are to always take the way of escape.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Sin is a choice. We choose to take the way of escape or we don't. It is very simple. If you sin you will die let you repent and forsake all sin so you can be cleansed by the blood.

1) Why would the Lord chastise someone unless they have sinned, and unless they are a son?

God chastises people to bring them to repentance. He does not want them to perish. God will cut off a son if they persist in rebellion. If David had not have repented of his adultery and murder he would not have been forgiven by God.

We have to endure the chastening and yield to it as it produces righteousness and holiness. Without holiness you will not see God. You do not want to fail the grace of God (Heb 12:15, 2Cor 6:1).

Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Heb 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

2) Why would he whip you like a son, unless you have sinned?

Because a son can go wayward and leave the path. God will discipline them to bring them back. A Christian who is in sin is in a very dangerous state because they are walking in opposition to God. Peter was severely rebuked by Paul for his hypocrisy yet Peter yielded to the correction and came back to the path.

3) Those who say that we are to be sinless in order to receive salvation should be leary in telling people, "I do not sin", when in fact, Scriptures tells us that the one who say they are without sin are deceived and the Truth is not in them. (1Jn 1:8) And if you are without sin, then there is no need to be disciplined. And if you are not disciplined by God, then you are fatherless and not a son.
　
Paul writes in I Cor. 11:30-32: "For this cause many are weak and sickly among you and many sleep, for if we judge ourselves we should not be judged, but when we are judged we are chastened of the Lord that we should not be condemned with the world." Paul, speaking of himself, showed he was capable of being lifted up with pride; hence there was given to him a thorn in the flesh - some physical affliction- 2 Cor. 12:7.

I have never said you have to be sinless or perfect to be saved. I have said you have to forsake all known rebellion through a genuine repentance experience. You are not saved in your rebellion. All known willful sin must stop BEFORE God will raise you up. When someone comes into the faith they are but a babe not knowing much. They will grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ as they diligently add to their faith. It is through doing this that they will be granted abundant entrance into the kingdom.

The sin that leads to death is rooted in a defiled and rebellious heart. The rebellion is purged out due to the sinner being broken as they come to an understanding of their true state, they then have a change of mind and forsake their old ways. Thus they are then in a position to yield to the implanted word which will save their soul.

1) Why would we judge ourselves if we have no sins?

We have to always examine ourselves and be very prudent. I fall short for sure and God is always correcting and guiding me the right way. Yet I am not willfully transgressing against God presumptuously, no way as that is the road to death and it would not be loving God or my neighbour. That sort of thing (willful sin) disgusts me.

2) Again why would we be judged by the Lord if there is no sin? It is apparent that the Lord chastises us so that we are not condemned with the world.
3) Pride is a sin and even Paul had to struggle with his sin of pride.

Again as I have said time and time again, there is a clear distinction between willful sin which is wrought from a defiled and rebellious heart, and unintentional sin. One is rooted in rebellion and one is not.

Anyone who is living in rebellion to God in any way whatsoever is in great danger of losing their soul.

 

[Skinski7]

I'd still like to know if being divorced or seperated from one's spouse constitutes remaining in a known sin, and therfore makes one unsaved? Anyone here can answer. Our Lord did say that "what God has joined together, let not man seperate." So that is viloating God's law. Is one unsaved as long as they're seperated from their spouse?
I'm just curious since this is a question about "what we do" to become saved, and "being sinlesss."
God bless.

Tom

Paul addressed that very issue.

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
1Co 7:28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

Yet like any issue you need to dig deep and be careful of the teachings of men. There is a lot of confusion surrounding this particular issue.